Jade General Discussion Thread

[ShadyHeart]

I would love a custom ability to get her actual regular boomerangs back.

 

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

The thing about pole vault is if used on a blocked string or raw the enemy can d2 you mid animation. It's easier for some characters than others but if the enemy knows to do it then it really puts a damper on the fun :/

Yeah, I was using it raw to throw ppl off lol, thinking they've only seen Emerald Defender (which I should add also has obvious superior zoning vs Jaded). I'd like to stick w/ Jaded, will need to try the pole vault as described above.

 

[mercureXI]

Am I crazy for thinking the Geras matchup is in her favor or at least 5-5? Her air glaive is a huge pain in the ass for him, and it shuts down most of his ranged tools.

Depends on how good Geras is when it comes to using his geysers. If you ever fight one that can pinpoint precisely where you'll throw your air glaive, it will become nearly impossible to use it and stop his progression.

And since quicksands win trades on the ground (not to mention KB for 30%), you will quickly have to face him upclose.

That's where things get rough.

But that matchup is definitely "manageable" compared to Erron's, Sonya's or Scorpion's, in my experience.

 

[Miasmata123]

Yeah, I was using it raw to throw ppl off lol, thinking they've only seen Emerald Defender (which I should add also has obvious superior zoning vs Jaded). I'd like to stick w/ Jaded, will need to try the pole vault as described above.

I actually only found out today in a mirror match up where the enemy Jade baited and then d2'd. Never really used the pole vault much outside the first few days.

I was mostly trying to find some use for the pole vault cancel. I thought it may affect recovery in a positive way, but if it does the timing on the cancel would be pretty tight, and im no good at that. The only positive change to frame data i got somewhat reliably was to f2, but only down to -12, and it has you running into the enemy while a f21 would accomplish the same at a safe distance. Maybe people with better timing can get better results.

Edit: b1 was hopeful too, as I got the block advantage to -15. Could maybe get that to something decent.

My goal now though is to find a Scorpion to fight. And then I will pole vault run from corner to corner with him spamming teleport to catch me.

 

[Wrath0594]

Yeah, I was under the impression pole vault was better than it is since f2 pole vault is really hard to d2. Unfortunately, this is not the case with any other string, they’re all easy to. If it was a truly safe cancel, I do think it’d be the superior variation.

Transforms her from a zoner, to an antizoner with some sick normals. Basically a better frost.
And it helps her punishes. B343 pole vault does the same damage as b343 nitro amp. But uh... Rip.

 

[Vagrant]

Am I crazy for thinking the Geras matchup is in her favor or at least 5-5? Her air glaive is a huge pain in the ass for him, and it shuts down most of his ranged tools.

You're not crazy but I think he beats her. He's in with one sand trap. If he has a life lead he doesn't need to give two shits about air glave. pre emptive jump attack will probably stuff air glaive too right? If you're sitting back looking for sand trap or jump attack, he gets to approach. He does so much damage that I feel like you need to out read Geras like at least 2:1. I know there are a lot of bad Geras players right now because he's popular but I just don't see much for him to be scared of compared to what he can do.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

What the heck is the timing on the pole vault brutality...can't get it for crap

 

[DarksydeDash]

Gotta say, using B343 into AMP glaive is a pretty good way to setup a throw or strike 50/50 since you're plus. If they are trying to flawless block B3434, it leaves you +5 on block too.

 

[HeavyNorse]

What the heck is the timing on the pole vault brutality...can't get it for crap

I just keep spamming 1+2 as soon I amplified it. Even if it is the last stab that kills the opponent, it should still work.

 

[Vagrant]

Gotta say, using B343 into AMP glaive is a pretty good way to setup a throw or strike 50/50 since you're plus. If they are trying to flawless block B3434, it leaves you +5 on block too.

I just labbed this and found that I could duck the second glaive and whiff punish for full combo, no? Is there a mixup that would prevent me from doing this as soon as I see the first glaive?

 

[Phr4nk]

I've been labbing PV more. Here's what I've got:

Amp PV doesn't always whiff in a combo. Some strings whiff, some connect. However if you hold 3 for a couple extra frames, you can force the whiff. For instance:

21 BF3 AMP will do 2 hits and the overhead. (Not a true blockstring, but the overhead will hit)
21 BF3(hold) AMP will do 2 hits and then the PV will whiff and you will side switch.

These strings will hit the Amp PV but you can hold 3 to whiff:
B2
21
F2
F3

The following strings always whiff:
1
B1
2
3
B3
B343
F34
4
F4

All of these moves will connect in the corner. But only B2 and F2 are true blockstrings, regardless of position.

If you do a knockdown into PV ( 12 BF3, 43 BF3 ) you can hold B and release to stuff the wakeup. Again, you can use AMP to whiff essentially do a side-switch cancel.

Still not sure what to do with an AMP move that seems to put you at such disadvantage, but starting to understand how it works.

 

[DarksydeDash]

I just labbed this and found that I could duck the second glaive and whiff punish for full combo, no? Is there a mixup that would prevent me from doing this as soon as I see the first glaive?

The mixup is if you're trying to flawless block the last hit of the string.

 

[Wrath0594]

The mixup is if you're trying to flawless block the last hit of the string.

He’s asking if there’s a reason to amp it, because the mixup only applies to the first glaive. The amp glaive is never safe on block since it doesn’t jail. Regular glaive is also likely punishable on block so it’s a lose/lose scenario. Is regular glaive + on hit at all?

 

[mercureXI]

I've been labbing PV more. Here's what I've got:

Amp PV doesn't always whiff in a combo. Some strings whiff, some connect. However if you hold 3 for a couple extra frames, you can force the whiff. For instance:

21 BF3 AMP will do 2 hits and the overhead. (Not a true blockstring, but the overhead will hit)
21 BF3(hold) AMP will do 2 hits and then the PV will whiff and you will side switch.

These strings will hit the Amp PV but you can hold 3 to whiff:
B2
21
F2
F3

The following strings always whiff:
1
B1
2
3
B3
B343
F34
4
F4

All of these moves will connect in the corner. But only B2 and F2 are true blockstrings, regardless of position.

If you do a knockdown into PV ( 12 BF3, 43 BF3 ) you can hold B and release to stuff the wakeup. Again, you can use AMP to whiff essentially do a side-switch cancel.

Still not sure what to do with an AMP move that seems to put you at such disadvantage, but starting to understand how it works.

Never really understood why they made it whiff anyway. Sounds so stupid ...

Then again, those same guys chose the KB condition on that move, so ...

 

[HeavyNorse]

Never really understood why they made it whiff anyway. Sounds so stupid ...

Then again, those same guys chose the KB condition on that move, so ...

I think it's to force that "mid-range" gameplan for Jade, as that's where you need to be for it to hit. That's just me guessing though.

 

[Rabid Justice]

A lot of her offence is going to be based on them hitting a button. Becouse pole vault is interuptable it opens up her counter and staff spin. Both get beat if they do nothing but that let her take he turn back with staggers and grab.

 

[HeavyNorse]

By the way, guys...
Do you know if Jade's green hooded skin is a Gauntlet reward? Or is it in a random tower that has yet to pop up yet?

 

[AK Harold]

I swore off Jade zoning to test her buttons for a while. Here's what I've learned.

Overall she is good.

She has deceptively good range and frames.
Staggers are really nice with her particularly from whiffed 1 and 2 as both are safe wether you finish or not. Whiffing a 1 or 2 to get reaction is really good. You can even punish a lot of counter hit mashing. You get to create the pace doing this.

We all agree the B3 series is great.
All ducking moves are good or above average if you consider the cast and frames etc.
Her parry is really fun to use. I understand now why they made it slow. Considering her strong mid game and staggers, giving her a 7 frame one would be really good if she could use it post stagger. Mixing with flawless block attempts is really good to steal turn after turn.

Like most of the roster, use her throws. She gets a sick crush on it in addition. If it isn't apparent to you how important throw is yet, watch the tournaments. It is rarely 50 50 town and more block pressure or throws. Her walk speed makes aggressive throws worth it.

Air ex glaive is pretty sick low to the ground.

Her hop moves are below average so far to me.
J2 is really nice for ranged punishes. And she has a good j3.

She pushes corner really well with bf2 or kicks.

Anti airs have already been highlighted. Practice optimizing she gets a lot of value from jump attempts. Most people won't jump but it's good to capitalize.

 

[mercureXI]

Sorry but is your advice to get close, and use her 1,2 string for staggers, use her counter, while going for throws as Jade ?

Interesting.

Because I would advise the EXACT opposite : stay at range, whiff punish as much as possible (b2 and d4), throw rangs to get them to duck-walk-duck and hope you can score a f21 once you made them think they got your pattern / duck thinking the next rang is coming.

I'd never get close unless I'm forced to : that's where most of the characters shine, that's where Jade sucks (in my opinion)

If I have a choice between staying close or pushing my opponent away, I'll push away every time ... not enough reasons to stay close IMO, unlike characters that can confirm their 7f s1 or s2 into MB launchers, Jade will get very very little damage from close range ... and will die if she goes for f21 or f2+low projectile unless she uses those tools from afar (same with most of her "mixups"), her only way to score a nice chunk of damage outside KB of course.

Sure we can mix both strategies (when you got no choice, you need to be prepared for close range options), but that's more of a last resort to me, not part of my gameplan.

But interesting PoV (you might be right, I might be wrong, game is fresh), though I'd see that work with v2 a lot more (considering pole vault + cancel to fit your playstyle).

 

[Phr4nk]

By the way, guys...
Do you know if Jade's green hooded skin is a Gauntlet reward? Or is it in a random tower that has yet to pop up yet?

I think I got it somewhere in her character towers

 

[HeavyNorse]

I think I got it somewhere in her character towers

Did those as one of the first things with Jade. So it's not there.

 

[Wrath0594]

Sorry but is your advice to get close, and use her 1,2 string for staggers, use her counter, while going for throws as Jade ?

Interesting.

Because I would advise the EXACT opposite : stay at range, whiff punish as much as possible (b2 and d4), throw rangs to get them to duck-walk-duck and hope you can score a f21 once you made them think they got your pattern / duck thinking the next rang is coming.

I'd never get close unless I'm forced to : that's where most of the characters shine, that's where Jade sucks (in my opinion)

If I have a choice between staying close or pushing my opponent away, I'll push away every time ... not enough reasons to stay close IMO, unlike characters that can confirm their 7f s1 or s2 into MB launchers, Jade will get very very little damage from close range ... and will die if she goes for f21 or f2+low projectile unless she uses those tools from afar (same with most of her "mixups"), her only way to score a nice chunk of damage outside KB of course.

Sure we can mix both strategies (when you got no choice, you need to be prepared for close range options), but that's more of a last resort to me, not part of my gameplan.

But interesting PoV (you might be right, I might be wrong, game is fresh), though I'd see that work with v2 a lot more (considering pole vault + cancel to fit your playstyle).

He’s just talking about her normals. This isn’t a one or the other scenario, there’s no match vs anyone decent where you’re going to keep them fullscreen all day. It’s like the difference between a Skarlet who keeps trying blood balls and tentacles when you’re close enough to punish or jump one, and the Skarlet who knows exactly when to come in when you don’t expect her to, or at least switch to her normals like s3 and f2.

You’re going to need to know how to fight at all ranges. And it’s not like she’s helpless point blank. S1, d1, b3, d4. Hell, my main’s fastest mid is 14 frames (JC) and I want to be close.

 

[mercureXI]

He is talking about her buttons sure, but "use her throws", kinda means "get close enough to start using throws", same with her parry stance (which is terrible imo : slow activation, low uptime, doesnt lead to anything worth putting yourself in danger, unlike Liu's parry (damage) or Skarlet's (health back))

She is not helpless point blank. Never said that : I just explained that while she has options once close to her opponent, she gains a LOT MORE in my opinion by gaining distance over going for some short range shenanigans that will reward with little damage and, most importantly, give your opponent a chance to give her hell.

Anyway, my bad if I understood that the wrong way.

 

[Wrath0594]

He is talking about her buttons sure, but "use her throws", kinda means "get close enough to start using throws", same with her parry stance (which is terrible imo : slow activation, low uptime, doesnt lead to anything worth putting yourself in danger, unlike Liu's parry (damage) or Skarlet's (health back))

She is not helpless point blank. Never said that : I just explained that while she has options once close to her opponent, she gains a LOT MORE in my opinion by gaining distance over going for some short range shenanigans that will reward with little damage and, most importantly, give your opponent a chance to give her hell.

Anyway, my bad if I understood that the wrong way.

Nah, your good, I was just tryna expand on that dude’s reasoning for ya. I think you’re right about the general gameplan. I think it’s similar to how I play Skarlet is all. I notice the difference a lot with worse Skarlets. It’s almost like they’re scared to play in close with their normals, and the constant desire to retreat fucks them. They panick point blank, rather than playing calmly and re-establishing where they want to be when the chance arrives, like off a throw or combo ender.

I also really like d1, into backwalk as Skarlet, since she can threaten all her normals outside anyone’s range. Idk if Jade’s d1 is + enough to do the same, but her d4 accomplishes the same thing so eh.

Also, Jade’s parry is hella good just because it’s nigh impossible to punish. The reward on the other hand is fucking garbo, especially since it changes sides so rip amping it if you have corner pressure- the situation you want it most since they have fewer wakeup choices.

 

[mercureXI]

Well, any low starter that has some range (think Johnny Cage) can easily punish her parry if used for neutral (works a bit to prevent Scorpion from spamming his step kick all day into stagger)

Sticking to using it to stuff reversals seems useful on paper, but I'd still bet on walking in range > outside range and punish with her f21 into combo (covers both u3 and rolls during corner pressure).

I literally never use her parry unless I know for sure people will d1 after my b343 stagger for example or when people abuse mids in neutral (Erron and Scorpion noobs)

I admit that may be one of my problems ... lot of moves I labelled as garbage and never use in matches ...

Thanks for your valuable input anyway ! (playing Skarlet too, so I get what you mean lol)