Jade General Discussion Thread

[Miasmata123]

I keep saying this, yes. I don't even understand why she has a b3 when her n3 is basically the same thing anyway. String should be 3434 instead of b3

Do you not understand the importance of a high vs mid starter?

 

[mercureXI]

Hey guys really important update on Pole Vault run cancel to simply annoy a Scorpion tp and gain nothing out of it-um chain exists. Still super fun to suicide imo.

That being said maybe the answer to d2ing pole vault is pole vault cancel into parry? Just an idea. Probably not worth the risk, and like I said before I cant get the timing down for the life of me to properly test it.

Also once you parry a d1 or two the enemy is just going to switch to d3, or worse, full combo punish off a low starter. I think the parry is pretty much exclusively on read. Think a Jacqui or Liu is gonna Flying punch/kick you? Parry. But I'm shit at this game so mostly I just get hit by those instead.

Parry can also be used after b3434 in the corner, but pretty much nothing should interrupt b3434 spam in the corner except push back or flawless block.

If you're constantly staggering b3 you can probably easily bait into a parry as well. Most people would probably want to d1 it since by the time they realize it's a stagger they may not have time to get a d3 out before the next b3 begins.

I think the real problem I have in the end is that I also play Skarlet.

Her parry activates way faster and you can use it to "cancel" moves (à la gun parry stance for Erron) or hold the button to bait a move.

The animation and sound don't scream "parry" like Jade's parry does, making it easy to score parries.

I need to use Jade's parry in a different way, but either the active frames stop before they realize they can hit a button, or they just d3 or d4.

It would be easier to setup if she could special cancel the last hit of any of her strings like Geras or other characters.

I'll test b343, ex glaive on hit, then parry ... most people mash out after ex glaive, but I usually just b343 again (frame trap) ... might be worth using a parry to setup throws ... and build both KBs at the same time

I almost wanna try using Delia's Dance but I really hate facing custom Scorpions with misery blade in online casual matches. That move is so "arghggghhhhhhh" lol

 

[AK Harold]

So you keep referring to Liu kangs kick string. It's -7 stagger AND has a gap for flawless. Jade's staggers are -2 and -4 and do not have a flawless gap.

If you can't get them to d1 then you aren't staggering correctly. Both their parry can be removed with d3s. Your job is to complete the string enough times to make them not press buttons. Then when they hesitate to buttons you stagger and throw. Then when they start doing d3 you D1. Then when they D1 you parry. Since characters have different D1 d3 options your mileage will vary. Sometimes your throws will beat D1 d3 depending on frames.

The above is assuming frame perfect reads from your opponent. So if you are constantly losing this exchange, your opponent is simply outplaying you

 

[mercureXI]

I keep referring to it because it's the only character so far that managed to hit me with his parry consistently. But that might be just me being bad.

If he rotates :

• full string (gap but he can start all over again on block)
• cancel into low ball (no gap)
• cancel into parry
• stop early (stagger)

I tend to get caught trying to interrupt his full string with d1 during the gap, by his occasional parry.
That's the gap (wide enough for a d1 but not enough for a d3) that makes it a great bait.

Maybe I should rely more on flawless block here. That mechanic feels so random when you play online with added delay ...

Anyway thanks for your input, you definitely helped me figuring out a few things.

 

[Miasmata123]

I keep referring to it because it's the only character so far that managed to hit me with his parry consistently. But that might be just me being bad.

If he rotates :

• full string (gap but he can start all over again on block)
• cancel into low ball (no gap)
• cancel into parry
• stop early (stagger)

I tend to get caught trying to interrupt his full string with d1 during the gap, by his occasional parry.
That's the gap (wide enough for a d1 but not enough for a d3) that makes it a great bait.

Maybe I should rely more on flawless block here. That mechanic feels so random when you play online with added delay ...

Anyway thanks for your input, you definitely helped me figuring out a few things.

You should be able to d3 him during the gap. It's a little tighter than d1 but not by much and with some practice should be easy.

Also without Liu's parry threat everyone could just 7f high him during the gap and blow him up. Now he probably doesnt need a 40% combo off a MB parry but that's another story.

 

[AK Harold]

I keep referring to it because it's the only character so far that managed to hit me with his parry consistently. But that might be just me being bad.

If he rotates :

• full string (gap but he can start all over again on block)
• cancel into low ball (no gap)
• cancel into parry
• stop early (stagger)

I tend to get caught trying to interrupt his full string with d1 during the gap, by his occasional parry.
That's the gap (wide enough for a d1 but not enough for a d3) that makes it a great bait.

Maybe I should rely more on flawless block here. That mechanic feels so random when you play online with added delay ...

Anyway thanks for your input, you definitely helped me figuring out a few things.

So take everything you just said and reverse engineer it to Jade's strings. Here are the main differences of the B3.

Jade B3 - 11f mid starter

B3 - Ends in -2, first stagger point. Lets you do your throw, counter, d1 options etc.
B343 - Ends in -7, second stagger point. Lets you do your throw options etc. with less threat than B3.
B3434 - Ends in +5, cannot interrupt the string like LK so they have to flawless block (very important)

Liu Kang F4 - 9f mid starter

F4 - Block -7, first stagger point. Lets you do your throw, counter, d1 guess game
F43 - Block -7, second stagger point. Lets you do your throw, counter, d1 guess game
F43U3- Block +5, interrupt possible by 8f. Crushes on counter.

Biggest take away is that LK has to do his low fireball to enforce his F43U3 string to avoid pokes being mashed. It is also very punishable or he has to chance a meter to catch your timing. His starts faster which is a large plus. Both characters and scenarios have advantages/disadvantages.

If you have trouble against his staggers, then that means you can apply that versus your opponent as well of equal skill level.

Her other staggers are even scarier at times.

S1 - Block +2, great stagger if you get into a stalemate position where both players are respecting too much. If you get a s1 block you can throw them or finish the string for crushing blow. String is safe on block but puts you into their mix. If you just do 12 though, it will leave you much safer if you don't feel like taking a risk and want to back off building space. It is -7 but they have to use an advancing move right away to press you.

21 - Block -2, great stagger to do outside of d1 range etc. in that empty space where decisions have to come fast. It will interrupt if players go for an advancing mid and if they hesitate you get a -2 stagger. 212 is uninterruptible and gives you distance on block. As above they have to press with an advancing mid.

F3 - Block -4 Very underrated move. I usually reserve this after landing a d1 or similar situations. Leaves you close to throw. F34 is also safe and hit confirms to your move of choice, on block its push back returns you to neutral. They have to do a fast advancing mid to contest your d4.

F4 - Block -5 Hops over low attacks. This comes in handy with the above strings that leave you at d4 range. Easy to hit confirm to finish string etc.

So when they have to press with advancing mids you have options to counter or stuff a lot of characters with 1 or 2 or d4. This forces a lot of players to d4 instead. You can beat this with F4 at those ranges against most the cast or hop. Hop lets you wait and see which is nice but her attacks are not that good from that position. Air glaive from hop is decent though.

Sorry for the long post, but its helping me learn things too doing this. A lot of these things I have been doing on instinct, but now after breaking the frames down and recording a lot in practice. A lot of this is solid play and safe. You can make it unsafe with the parry baits, or you can just bait flawless blocks. Either way it will make them hesitate and let you stagger a lot more chip.

 

[mercureXI]

I'd say the biggest difference is that Jade is kinda "done" with her pressure after b3434 if you complete it (too much pushback for b3 to reach after that), where Liu can start all over again (cant jump out, cant d1).

And of course, mashing d3 has little to no consequence for them in most scenarios here. (if only b3434 would KB on counterhit that would help so much here !)

But yeah nice post. Thanks for that. Like I said, I need to get the Skarlet out of my Jade, and everything will click better

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

Did you guys see the Jade/Kitana specific tower that ended last night? Got sick sick sick Jade and Kitana masks for beating Jade/Kitana on Hard endurance. I almost want to start playing Kitana just to see this mask on my character
The Jade mask was dope. These customizations are so amazing in this game.

 

[Saviorself]

So take everything you just said and reverse engineer it to Jade's strings. Here are the main differences of the B3.

Jade B3 - 11f mid starter

B3 - Ends in -2, first stagger point. Lets you do your throw, counter, d1 options etc.
B343 - Ends in -7, second stagger point. Lets you do your throw options etc. with less threat than B3.
B3434 - Ends in +5, cannot interrupt the string like LK so they have to flawless block (very important)

Liu Kang F4 - 9f mid starter

F4 - Block -7, first stagger point. Lets you do your throw, counter, d1 guess game
F43 - Block -7, second stagger point. Lets you do your throw, counter, d1 guess game
F43U3- Block +5, interrupt possible by 8f. Crushes on counter.

Biggest take away is that LK has to do his low fireball to enforce his F43U3 string to avoid pokes being mashed. It is also very punishable or he has to chance a meter to catch your timing. His starts faster which is a large plus. Both characters and scenarios have advantages/disadvantages.

If you have trouble against his staggers, then that means you can apply that versus your opponent as well of equal skill level.

Her other staggers are even scarier at times.

S1 - Block +2, great stagger if you get into a stalemate position where both players are respecting too much. If you get a s1 block you can throw them or finish the string for crushing blow. String is safe on block but puts you into their mix. If you just do 12 though, it will leave you much safer if you don't feel like taking a risk and want to back off building space. It is -7 but they have to use an advancing move right away to press you.

21 - Block -2, great stagger to do outside of d1 range etc. in that empty space where decisions have to come fast. It will interrupt if players go for an advancing mid and if they hesitate you get a -2 stagger. 212 is uninterruptible and gives you distance on block. As above they have to press with an advancing mid.

F3 - Block -4 Very underrated move. I usually reserve this after landing a d1 or similar situations. Leaves you close to throw. F34 is also safe and hit confirms to your move of choice, on block its push back returns you to neutral. They have to do a fast advancing mid to contest your d4.

F4 - Block -5 Hops over low attacks. This comes in handy with the above strings that leave you at d4 range. Easy to hit confirm to finish string etc.

So when they have to press with advancing mids you have options to counter or stuff a lot of characters with 1 or 2 or d4. This forces a lot of players to d4 instead. You can beat this with F4 at those ranges against most the cast or hop. Hop lets you wait and see which is nice but her attacks are not that good from that position. Air glaive from hop is decent though.

Sorry for the long post, but its helping me learn things too doing this. A lot of these things I have been doing on instinct, but now after breaking the frames down and recording a lot in practice. A lot of this is solid play and safe. You can make it unsafe with the parry baits, or you can just bait flawless blocks. Either way it will make them hesitate and let you stagger a lot more chip.

I'd say the biggest difference is that Jade is kinda "done" with her pressure after b3434 if you complete it (too much pushback for b3 to reach after that), where Liu can start all over again (cant jump out, cant d1).

And of course, mashing d3 has little to no consequence for them in most scenarios here. (if only b3434 would KB on counterhit that would help so much here !)

But yeah nice post. Thanks for that. Like I said, I need to get the Skarlet out of my Jade, and everything will click better

What are the situationals jade players can take advantage of after b3434 if b3 wont start up again? any guaranteed situations? slight dash into grab seems effective but always risk getting punished....are there any strings that will take advantage of the plus frames?

 

[Wrath0594]

I'd say the biggest difference is that Jade is kinda "done" with her pressure after b3434 if you complete it (too much pushback for b3 to reach after that), where Liu can start all over again (cant jump out, cant d1).

And of course, mashing d3 has little to no consequence for them in most scenarios here. (if only b3434 would KB on counterhit that would help so much here !)

But yeah nice post. Thanks for that. Like I said, I need to get the Skarlet out of my Jade, and everything will click better

I always thought of the pushback as a benefit, since her best normals outrange almost everyone elses. Puts you in a goodspot to stuff an approach with d4 or b2. If only f21 weren’t so easy to jump over...
I definitely do see your point that it’s hard to capitalize on the + frames though.

 

[Hot_DNA]

Who are you guys struggling with?
I do relatively good against Geras and Erron blacks
I get bodied by Scorpions, Kung Laos, Sub Zeros, Lui Kangs and Kabals

 

[Arqwart]

Who are you guys struggling with?
I do relatively good against Geras and Erron blacks
I get bodied by Scorpions, Kung Laos, Sub Zeros, Lui Kangs and Kabals

Enjoy: Erron, Kabal, Baraka, Cassie, D'Vorah, Jade mirror
Neutral: Kotal, Kollector, Kano, Kitana, Raiden, Shao, Sonya, Geras, Jax
Struggle: Sub-Zero, Noob, Cetrion, Frost, Jacqui, Kung Lao, Skarlet, Johnny
Nightmare: Scorpion, Liu Kang

Overall, Jade does kinda ok against some of the top tiers. I'd even consider her a good pick against the likes of Erron. Liu and Scorpion, however, result in an immediate "Oh boy, here I go losing again" from me when I see them picked.

 

[Matador Fiend]

I watched biohazzard use jade against kevos geras on stream and it was sad to see. Bio looked like he outplayed but jades damage is just so low. All it took is geras to hit twice and everything jade did was for nothing. I thought about picking her up since my pool of chars so far is a sausagefest, but her dmg is too low for my liking

 

[Bronzefist]

Scorpion drives me up a wall, mainly because of the imbalanced risk/reward with his teleport against Jade. The matchup really highlights her terrible punish damage, even when you guess correctly and block his TP. Jade is punishing for what, 18% damage? Meanwhile he lands a good TP on her and its 30% gone. It really pisses me off. Plus the fact I need to worry about his TP at any given second, and that he can enhance it on block to fuck up my punish timing.

 

[AK Harold]

@mercureXI

The range it puts you at is where Jade wants to be. Whereas LK has to work his way back in. It is a benefit not a detriment

 

[mercureXI]

@mercureXI

The range it puts you at is where Jade wants to be. Whereas LK has to work his way back in. It is a benefit not a detriment

Unless I'm wrong, Liu Kang doesn't have to work his way back in, he can repeat the same string (can't interrupt, can't jump out of it, etc).

Jade might be at range, but she gained nothing pressure wise on block (back to neutral), unlike Liu Kang here, that can go back to attack and ultimately force a reaction / earn a counter KB combo.

Meaning that spamming d3 against her staggers, will be a viable strategy for her opponent, and the risk is minimal to say the least (eating the last hit of her combo ? that won't lead to much vortex anyway, unless cornered)

Not trying to say that the whole "Jade stagger / parry / etc" strategy sucks (I actually love that kind of mind games), but let's be honest, in the vast majority of the options, the opponent either eats very low damage or goes back to neutral (slightly negative but at range if blocking / close and positive if d3 spam worked).

Low-medium risk (low if d3 spammed works, medium if they start some low hitting combo, expecting your parry), for low reward (throw / parry / last hit of her combo).

Not really worth much in my opinion, unfortunately. But that's a problem with many Jade options (punish, reward from zoning, etc).

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

If you guys want a chuckle set a jade AI on your team to about 30 zoning 20 walk back and the rest counter.
Play on Ffx4. The super fast stream of projectiles is funny af. Also jades an AI monster like Noob

 

[NeonGroovyGator]

I've promoted Jade to my main roster today. Idk she seems chill to play. She at least feels like a solid defensive character, at least when compared to the others I play.
Anyone got her cute pink outfit from Towers of Time yet? I kinda need that but it'd be nice to know how much grind I'll have to endure before I start it.

 

[Tanya-Fan-28]

I'd say the biggest difference is that Jade is kinda "done" with her pressure after b3434 if you complete it (too much pushback for b3 to reach after that), where Liu can start all over again (cant jump out, cant d1).

And of course, mashing d3 has little to no consequence for them in most scenarios here. (if only b3434 would KB on counterhit that would help so much here !)

But yeah nice post. Thanks for that. Like I said, I need to get the Skarlet out of my Jade, and everything will click better

So far I've seen that Frost is the only one deprived of the B3434 block stagger. Everyone else has that 'pushing' and the only normal that covers the distance is d4. I with it wasn't a low because I don't want to be adding to the poke battle stigma.

 

[Espio]

Gonna post some of my Jade matches with players from the community.

Versus Subby Wubby

Geras/Frost

Thoughts and critique welcome!

I've promoted Jade to my main roster today. Idk she seems chill to play. She at least feels like a solid defensive character, at least when compared to the others I play.
Anyone got her cute pink outfit from Towers of Time yet? I kinda need that but it'd be nice to know how much grind I'll have to endure before I start it.

I have it, but forget how to get it. If you have her "Steadfast sister" skin already you can hit options/start button to go straight to her pink one even if you don't have it unlocked.

I might have gotten it from her character specific paid tower I'm thinking, those are time consuming but those are two methods off rip.

You'll like her if you like a slower pace and great walk speed. She's a very precise character.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

Thoughts and critique welcome!

I'd start shadow kicking after your B2s instead of deadly butterfly. You left some damage on the table when you whiffed punish with B2 and your deadly butterfly was out of range. That's the only thing I saw, that was pretty good.

 

[Arqwart]

Gonna post some of my Jade matches with players from the community.

Thoughts and critique welcome!

I love your usage of F4. I've begun utilizing that more recently and it's so easy to use for stagger pressure because so many people think they can throw out wild shit to "punish" it.

1. Bruh, you gotta Glow before you try to toss projectiles at Wubalubasubdub at full screen. He can't punish Glow with slide at that distance so it's in your best interests to get that Glow going anytime you are that far away, especially if he's using Thin Ice. Also, Glow doesn't work against Frost's core bomb lobs. I believe they're duckable, though.

2. I didn't see a lot of D4 usage. That thing is an amazing neutral tool that I strongly suggest you use more of to check people who are advancing. D4 is your BEST friend against Geras because of his advancing strings, range, and stupid 6f D1.

3. If you've got the meter to burn, I strongly suggest using a more efficient combo after the rare occasions that F21 lands. F21, 4, ex Glaive, Uppercut is pretty easy to land and nets you a solid 50-60+ more damage IIRC.

Another quick note (and this goes for all the Jade players here): your best air-to-air is 2. I know it feels natural to throw out 3/4 when you see that you're both jumping towards each other; but 2 uses the staff which gives you range, weapon extension, and is just as fast.

 

[Espio]

I love your usage of F4. I've begun utilizing that more recently and it's so easy to use for stagger pressure because so many people think they can throw out wild shit to "punish" it.

1. Bruh, you gotta Glow before you try to toss projectiles at Wubalubasubdub at full screen. He can't punish Glow with slide at that distance so it's in your best interests to get that Glow going anytime you are that far away, especially if he's using Thin Ice. Also, Glow doesn't work against Frost's core bomb lobs. I believe they're duckable, though.

2. I didn't see a lot of D4 usage. That thing is an amazing neutral tool that I strongly suggest you use more of to check people who are advancing. D4 is your BEST friend against Geras because of his advancing strings, range, and stupid 6f D1.

3. If you've got the meter to burn, I strongly suggest using a more efficient combo after the rare occasions that F21 lands. F21, 4, ex Glaive, Uppercut is pretty easy to land and nets you a solid 50-60+ more damage IIRC.

Another quick note (and this goes for all the Jade players here): your best air-to-air is 2. I know it feels natural to throw out 3/4 when you see that you're both jumping towards each other; but 2 uses the staff which gives you range, weapon extension, and is just as fast.

I'll probably see if I can implement jump 2, but I feel comfortable with jump 3. I'll experiment with the properties at your suggestion. Is it faster and the range better? I use down 4 more at different points in the set, it just depends. Pushback is godlike too for sure and -3 with the space created might as well be neutral. I'll see if I can use it more though.

Yeah with Frost you have to get at a range where you can shadow kick punish bombs, they really keep Jade honest.

Sub-Zero has really good advancing movement and I feel like I give up way too much ground trying to glow all the time. I glow in the set, but I'm more particular about it and I feel like I win more not focusing on it. Sub-Zero's advancing movement even without slide is excellent. There's -40 frames of recovery I'm giving up and I'd rather have more control over spacing him. It's more of a personal strategy choice. If it was a different character or glow recovered more quickly I'd be more inclined to glow more frequently.

 

[Arqwart]

I'll probably see if I can implement jump 2, but I feel comfortable with jump 3. I'll experiment with the properties at your suggestion. Is it faster and the range better? I use down 4 more at different points in the set, it just depends. Pushback is godlike too for sure and -3 with the space created might as well be neutral. I'll see if I can use it more though.

J2 has Jade swing her staff straight out ahead of her in the air. It's piss poor for air-to-ground situations because the swing is so high up, but it is phenomenal for air-to-air.

Sub-Zero has really good advancing movement and I feel like I give up way too much ground trying to glow all the time. I glow in the set, but I'm more particular about it and I feel like I win more not focusing on it. Sub-Zero's advancing movement even without slide is excellent. There's -40 frames of recovery I'm giving up and I'd rather have more control over spacing him. It's more of a personal strategy choice. If it was a different character or glow recovered more quickly I'd be more inclined to glow more frequently.

That's actually a damn good point that I didn't consider. Carry on, good sir. I'll keep this in mind when fighting Subs moving forward.

 

[AK Harold]

@Espio lots jumping lol. But since you landed so many kicks you can hit confirm easier with nitro kick.

If you save your meter more instead of neutral glaives you can j3 amp glaive. That way you get a larger payout on hit. On block you will be very plus as well to give you a throw or attack mixup chance.

I would be wary of throwing up glaives esp against subzero in neutral since he can f4 and get in on you quickly. Also recommend for glow to use after you reaction to his projectiles.

I know it's online so sorry to pick at the reactionary stuff. You already know how much I hate online because of these things lol.