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Jade General Discussion Thread

mercureXI

Punching bag that throws fans !
Well, any low starter that has some range (think Johnny Cage) can easily punish her parry if used for neutral (works a bit to prevent Scorpion from spamming his step kick all day into stagger)

Sticking to using it to stuff reversals seems useful on paper, but I'd still bet on walking in range > outside range and punish with her f21 into combo (covers both u3 and rolls during corner pressure).

I literally never use her parry unless I know for sure people will d1 after my b343 stagger for example or when people abuse mids in neutral (Erron and Scorpion noobs)

I admit that may be one of my problems ... lot of moves I labelled as garbage and never use in matches ...

Thanks for your valuable input anyway ! (playing Skarlet too, so I get what you mean lol)
 
I thought I was clear on my first sentence. Was merely a test to see her buttons up close. I think she excels from distance, but I also think she has more up close than people think. Just keep in mind to save your crushing blows and it will make them think twice getting up close.

Concerning her parry and how to use it.
You have to use it to make a read to steal turns. You use staggers + throws to force them to press buttons. Then you use the same staggers but cancel into parry.
You are basically forcing non reactionary play and making them play reads up close. Everyone constantly complains that "pressure" gets removed by d1 etc. Well it is because you are playing way too honest. "I just attacked now it is your turn" If you do that 100% of the time you will lose. You need to make them second guess decisions with calculated risks. You aren't just using parry by itself and hope they attack into it. You are using it either to counter advancing strings or to add to your staggers and pokes. It is an option to add, the more options you present, the less the opponent can deduce what is coming next. This is the basics of fighting games.
 

mercureXI

Punching bag that throws fans !
Another basics of fighting games, though, is the "risk versus reward" notion.

And I'm pretty sure her parry is high risk / low reward.

About its use, we're on the same page considering what I wrote and how I use it (counter people abusing the same advancing mid in neutral or after b343 stagger if I'm sure they will try and d1).

I'm just sad that her mb version side switches, and that it leads to nothing, even after a KB.

A tool that might be useful if used once in a blue moon in my opinion, but nowhere near the effectiveness of Liu's parry, since he can deal huge damage off it, justifying the "risk".
 

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
Yall played Frost? It’ll make you appreciate Jade more.

A tool that might be useful if used once in a blue moon in my opinion, but nowhere near the effectiveness of Liu's parry, since he can deal huge damage off it, justifying the "risk".
To be fair, a little less risky since it recovers more than twice as fast, but I agree.
 
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That's why you have to build up reads by actively conditioning. You truly only need three a game since you should be getting value from your conditioning itself and your ranged game. While conditioning with throws you are also setting up her other crush as well. It is really good synergy. The more they understand about your fatal, the more risk reward favors you doing these type of plays

If you aren't actively gathering crushing blows and saving them, then you are behind the meta. Her crushing blows are meant to just add that little bit of threat to close out games. Always save your throw crush and 124 crush for fatal blow territory to get the easy 400 when behind. If you still have both and fatal active, that means you can eat up 700 life in two attacks. This is with them having to guess on your 1 staggers which is nearly a coin flip if they block a 1. If you are ahead and they are just outside fatal then use it as well to negate their fatal. You have to use these to change the match up.
 

mercureXI

Punching bag that throws fans !
I get what you mean. but we have different opinions on that matter. (And that's what is interesting here, no use in having everyone agree about everything !)

My problem is : the only KBs you will ever reliably land in a "real match", are her d2 and her (1)24.
Both lead to nice chunk of damage and are quite easy to use while not being forced to steer away from her gameplan.

The other ones, I think, will get you killed more times than they will help you win a match.

  • Nitro kick KB is obviously terrible : anyone with a bit of knowledge about Jade, knows that it's unsafe and duckable, and that you can't use any other move if you plan on landing it. No real threat, and it leads to nothing. While whiffing one can mean d2 KB. Ouch. High risk / low reward.
  • Parry KB is most likely the worst of all three to me, since it requires you to flip a coin 3 times for really low reward. Same here, high risk / low reward.
  • The throw KB needs her to be close (don't want that but shit happens) and relies on your opponent teching as if it was a back throw. Twice. But it leads to juggle combos, so it might be wise to use it if possible, I agree, though you have no control over that. This one is high reward at least.
Characters like Liu Kang can play the stagger / parry game efficiently, because MOST of his options lead to something nice for him (parry MB for nice damage / counterhit on his string leads to KB / low fireball or throw leads to vortex and sets up parry KB on reversals).

With Jade, her options lead to very little damage in MOST cases : counterhit on her stagger leads to nothing / parry needs 3 activations for KB and still leads to little damage on KB / throw "might" lead to KB "if" your opponent techs wrong enough times.


So, I might be behind the "meta", but so is Kitana Prime it seems. Never saw him going for Nitro KB or parries during his matches at the Summit.
Maybe for the very reasons I pointed out here ?

PS : yeah playing Frost kinda puts things in perspective :) lol
 
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GLoRToR

If you are not having fun doing something, stop it
It's great that we have two high-level players backing up the Jade community.
I really hope next patch she'll get some love so we'll stop having to scrape the bottom of the barrel and get legitimate tech instead of just "use her with fundamentals on point".
 
It's great that we have two high-level players backing up the Jade community.
I really hope next patch she'll get some love so we'll stop having to scrape the bottom of the barrel and get legitimate tech instead of just "use her with fundamentals on point".
I have faith. Make two of her non-existant KB's Geras-esque KB's to buff overall in-match damage dealt. Tweak the parry. It's all so easily fixable, I gotta believe it'll get fixed.
 

GLoRToR

If you are not having fun doing something, stop it
F343 is very hard to time the d1 after in the corner. Is just better to hit confirm into the staff spin?
I keep saying this, yes. I don't even understand why she has a b3 when her n3 is basically the same thing anyway. String should be 3434 instead of b3
 

Hot_DNA

Noob
after staff spin, how are people connecting the d1 in the corner?????...I hit it all the time in the beta, but since release I don't even attempt to try it
 

Arqwart

Lean, mean, and +14
after staff spin, how are people connecting the d1 in the corner?????...I hit it all the time in the beta, but since release I don't even attempt to try it
The amount of gravity on the opponent after Butterfly was nerfed from the beta so they drop MUCH faster than they did at that time. It's a rather tight window to pull off a post-Butterfly juggle now.

Yet another reason why Butterfly sucks and Delia's Dance feels mandatory, but that's neither here nor there.
 
The amount of gravity on the opponent after Butterfly was nerfed from the beta so they drop MUCH faster than they did at that time. It's a rather tight window to pull off a post-Butterfly juggle now.

Yet another reason why Butterfly sucks and Delia's Dance feels mandatory, but that's neither here nor there.
I still can't get Delia's Dance. Like how the heck do you use it and why's it so much better than butterfly, the damage seems to suck. It completely takes away your low corner conversion. The range is so weak, it's like her F3.
 

Arqwart

Lean, mean, and +14
I still can't get Delia's Dance. Like how the heck do you use it and why's it so much better than butterfly, the damage seems to suck. It completely takes away your low corner conversion. The range is so weak, it's like her F3.
Butterfly is an extremely specific ability with great strengths but is ONLY strong in those specific scenarios. I'm a risk-avoidant person who also prefers universal usability as opposed to highly-focused specificity. As such, I absolutely adore Delia's Dance over Butterfly. Butterfly is ALWAYS unsafe on block due to not having an amplification option, is only a viable option on hit confirm, and adds a marginal amount of combo potential that's only available in the corner. Delia's Dance is a safe option at all times so long as you have offensive meter, makes opponents terrified of not blocking low, and instantly results in pressure mindgames if landed.

Delia's Dance is:
  • Special-cancelable low option that complements her mediocre close range gameplay
  • -13 on block (like Butterfly), but can be amplified to be -7 with MASSIVE pushback if blocked so it's 100% safe in all scenarios
  • +8 on hit allows for so many options (stagger pressure, grab, parry if they mash D1 after, step away, jump in any direction safely, etc.)
In replacing Butterfly, you lose the following positives:
  • Corner carry
  • Corner combo potential
  • Jade's only good chip damage option
Overall, I do understand your gripes with Delia's Dance due to its mediocre range; but it fills so many gaps in Jade's gameplay that I can't pass it up. Also, Delia's Dance has my favorite brutality in the entire game; but that's just goofy personal preference.
 
Butterfly is an extremely specific ability with great strengths but is ONLY strong in those specific scenarios. I'm a risk-avoidant person who also prefers universal usability as opposed to highly-focused specificity. As such, I absolutely adore Delia's Dance over Butterfly. Butterfly is ALWAYS unsafe on block due to not having an amplification option, is only a viable option on hit confirm, and adds a marginal amount of combo potential that's only available in the corner. Delia's Dance is a safe option at all times so long as you have offensive meter, makes opponents terrified of not blocking low, and instantly results in pressure mindgames if landed.

Delia's Dance is:
  • Special-cancelable low option that complements her mediocre close range gameplay
  • -13 on block (like Butterfly), but can be amplified to be -7 with MASSIVE pushback if blocked so it's 100% safe in all scenarios
  • +8 on hit allows for so many options (stagger pressure, grab, parry if they mash D1 after, step away, jump in any direction safely, etc.)
In replacing Butterfly, you lose the following positives:
  • Corner carry
  • Corner combo potential
  • Jade's only good chip damage option
Overall, I do understand your gripes with Delia's Dance due to its mediocre range; but it fills so many gaps in Jade's gameplay that I can't pass it up. Also, Delia's Dance has my favorite brutality in the entire game; but that's just goofy personal preference.
Nice. That makes sense. I'll play more with it when I get home.
What's your custom loadout abilities? I chose Air glave, delia, and pole vault as my custom but still have mostly used the emerald defender variation.
 

Arqwart

Lean, mean, and +14
Nice. That makes sense. I'll play more with it when I get home.
What's your custom loadout abilities? I chose Air glave, delia, and pole vault as my custom but still have mostly used the emerald defender variation.
Buff D'Vorah: Air Razor-Rang, Delia's Dance, Pole Vault
Staff Infection: Pole Vault, Delia's Dance, Deadly Assassin
Zoneland: Air Razor-Rang, Delia's Dance, Edenian Spark
 

mercureXI

Punching bag that throws fans !
Been playing polevault variation all day against a close friend (teached him how to d2 and low profile her polevault)

Most miserable day in my short MK11 life.

Polevault is really just a gimmick at this point : anyone with matchup knowledge will destroy that move with the greatest of ease ...

Been trying to setup some parry mind game.

I think I need hints, because unless I'm wrong, there is no situation where people are forced to d1 to escape Jade, they can just d3 or d4 and accomplish the same thing ... making her parry mind games really weak up close. (unlike Liu Kang that forces you to d1 if you wanna interrupt his kick string)

Ive been trying to use f4 to go over d3 or d4 and force a d1 but didnt work well ... very slow low crush move.

Any tip ?
 

mercureXI

Punching bag that throws fans !
Oh by the way, not really Jade specific, but Tom Brady posted this about MK11 balance.

Very interesting. And fits Jade very well (variation issues)