General/Other - Kano Is Kano better on paper than he is in-game?

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Think of it this way about his mixups: compare them to CT's mixups where in certain situations both are guaranteed and both lead to 30+%, where in the same situations Commando's grabs are never guaranteed, and the whole mixup always does less damage than CT's.

In situations where you can parry, you can also ex ball cancel, where you don't have to guess on what button they pressed or whether they jumped, you only have to guess on whether or not they pressed a button. CT just has to make fewer reads than Commando and gets more from his fewer reads, whilst also having far more threatening footsies.

I don't disagree. In that example, Spending meter gives you the easier out. Not spending meter on party gives you a higher risk option.

I accept that

 

[Derptile]

That's like saying "I can't ex rising karma cause if i get baited I get full comboed"

The fact that you have made them hesitate means the move is effective enough.

An Ex armored move like rising Karma doesn't have to worry about the 50/50 guess, can go through most gaps in strings or pressure, has an actual hitbox, and leads to a full combo.

Comparing them is silly.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

An Ex armored move like rising Karma doesn't have to worry about the 50/50 guess, can go through most gaps in strings or pressure, has an actual hitbox, and leads to a full combo.

Comparing them is silly.

Your example was based on "if they bait the parry and punish"

My example was based on "if they bait the armor and punish"

See what I mean? If you make them hesitate that's all that matters

 

[NHDR]

He's a really solid character in his CT and Cyb. variations. He's just not stupid good like the best characters in the game. But you can still win with him. Oh, and he's very convenient to play if you come from a Street Fighter background (like I do).

 

[LEGI0N47]

Can anyone agree that Commando is super fun?

Lord of the Fly has some good points about commando my favorite being that he's not too flowchart. You can genuinely mess with the opponent at times, It's the wtf is coming next thing. But a lot of other people are right too in that if you chose wrong you are getting buttfucked for big damage vs what commando will get. But you can say that for almost any char in the game. Sorry but he needs another tick throw option and the ex-ball needs a softening of the ridiculously small window to get the combo. I don't remember who said it, but Kano in general is a char you need to go all in on and be a specialist to fair well and I agree with that. It's too bad he doesn't have more representation.

 

[xMEECH]

Or guessed wrong on too many safe/advantage 5050s/advantage armour 5050 option selects.

outplayed

Hey man cutthroat needs meter to get over 30%. Plus his overhead has less range than a grab and is slower than his jump distance mid (f4). He's cleaner than other characters in the game is all I'm saying.

 

[xMEECH]

Sorry but he needs another tick throw option and the ex-ball needs a softening of the ridiculously small window to get the combo.

D1, F33, D3 and D4 are all fine tick throw options. What do you want, a tick throw off F4?

Speaking of D1 I really wish it wasn't 9 frames.

Also the window to combo of ex ball cancel is big enough. It should be small enough to require good execution.

 

[TheJaquio]

D1, F33, D3 and D4 are all fine tick throw options. What do you want, a tick throw off F4?

Speaking of D1 I really wish it wasn't 9 frames.

Also the window to combo of ex ball cancel is big enough. It should be small enough to require good execution.

F33 tick throw would be fine if the string itself weren't ass, but tick throws off of pokes are a big roll of the dice. You can't confirm them, so if they block you get your 16% throw but if they get hit by the poke then you whiff the throw and eat a 30%+ full combo. It isn't a favorable risk.

 

[MrSunshine]

Fix his sucky ass overhead so it can hit females

Decrease the health loss on buff

Top tier

 

[LEGI0N47]

D1, F33, D3 and D4 are all fine tick throw options. What do you want, a tick throw off F4?

Speaking of D1 I really wish it wasn't 9 frames.

Also the window to combo of ex ball cancel is big enough. It should be small enough to require good execution.

Honestly I'd be happy with another tick that is in a string, but I'm not sure which one. I'm aware of F33 but it's a dead giveaway since that string is literally never used for anything so astute players know it's coming.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Shrug. Yeah, on paper he is amazing, in practice he is OK, but not great. Solid but not special.

Im sure very strong players can find success with him, but these players would find as much or more with someone else, because they are strong players, they will do well with almost any character. Kano is def not bad, or even weak, he's just middle-of-the-road.

I mean, he has the amazing ability to do 50% damage midscreen for 3 bars, some stamina and some health, which is.clearly superior to, say, Jax who does 7%~ less for one bar, a little stamina and no health.. Especially since Kano never needs meter for *anything* and always has 3 bars. Dat OH range too, *Rick Flair WHOOOOO* . That shit needs a nerf. Cough.


Sorry, poking fun.

 

[Error404]

D1, F33, D3 and D4 are all fine tick throw options. What do you want, a tick throw off F4?

Speaking of D1 I really wish it wasn't 9 frames.

Also the window to combo of ex ball cancel is big enough. It should be small enough to require good execution.

Jax has a tick off of f3 and f4 which are both basicly better versions of Kanos f4.
Also @AK L0rdoftheFLY commandos risk/reward for his grabs can't even be compared to cutthroats for his 50/50.As much fun as I've had with commando the only match I would say it does better in is SD Cage. His parries remove the stunt doubles ... for some reason.

 

[Youphemism]

I think Commando could be good for non-50/50 pressure characters like Lao, Kang and Cage but I'm not sure I see it being best anywhere else tbh.

 

[DOOMSDAY-15RUS-]

I play Kano in all variations and love this char too much, on papier he is better, he got many very good tools like : back dash, low profile D4, good B1, safe mix ups, good cross up with 4, good zonning and air control, good uppercut but there some tricks missings and he need it to much to be playable correctly.
- better connect with cross up 1 and 2
- D4 to DF2 knife should always touch block or hit not missing
- cuttroat should have B1 like others and overhead should be a combo like B2,1,2
- cutthroat overhead at least same range as cassie or jax OH
- commando should get more damage 2, 3 % plus on counters and a new juggle at least to make some 35% with 1 midscreen
- a new brutality using his counter in commando
- a new brutality using DB1 laser to slice the head
- AND THE MOST IMPORTANT : cutthroat brutality should work on airborn opponents in big combos at least because his DB1 EX make opponents stand

 

[DOOMSDAY-15RUS-]

I think Commando could be good for non-50/50 pressure characters like Lao, Kang and Cage but I'm not sure I see it being best anywhere else tbh.

punish chars with safe mixups because you can poke > grab on block

 

[thlityoursloat]

I think Commando could be good for non-50/50 pressure characters like Lao, Kang and Cage but I'm not sure I see it being best anywhere else tbh.

Not Kang, Kang can start off his pressure using a high and mid (must be parried high) or low (must be parried low) so trying to parry is a huge risk when you could just block low and take the chip over 37% for one bar.

 

[MsMiharo]

Commando is never going to be anywhere near as strong as his other variations when regular grabs are as strong as they are and he has no scary tick throw setups. The risk reward is never in commandos favor.

Kotal has the grab as a scary ender to big combos (something Kano doesn't really have) and can tick off of his most scary normal (b1) since he can go for the full string

Jax has a tick off of f3 where you have to guess between gotcha grab (safe) and the grab.

The rest of the grapplers are irrelevant tbh.

 

[Thanilla Ice]

You should retract that very last statement before Youphemism sees it.
Cyber Kano is not a pure pressure character at all lol.

So if Cybernetic isn't a pressure character, what kind of character is he?

 

[Youphemism]

So if Cybernetic isn't a pressure character, what kind of character is he?

A zoner, look at his knives lol. What makes you think he's a pressure character?

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

A zoner, look at his knives lol. What makes you think he's a pressure character?

He isn't a zoner dude

 

[thlityoursloat]

He isn't a zoner dude

I suppose space control is the best term.

 

[Slymind]

Kano to me seems like the role model/blueprint for design, from animations to gameplay, to me they did everything right, he has arguably 3 functional variations(despite commando being considered lacking) and he seems strong but not obnoxious like some of the top tiers, i can see this character rising on the ranks if the tops are nerfed(without even buffing him).

 

[kantboy-2]

He's not a zoner, mid-screen is his sweet spot; Cybernetic at least. Cutthroat is a combo machine and you want to get up close with those sexy knives once your opponent screws up.

I mainly play Commando and he needs that 'Piss and Moan' (F3,3 into grab; it's in the mobile game) combo back in and my broken record of a request; an air throw to control enemy placement in the air as well. As simple and quick as his MK3 air throw.

If the special throws didn't whiff so badly and he could block-string into them from any point of his already small number of string combos, then I could live with the small parry windows. And that would make him as good as he seems on paper.

 

[Youphemism]

He isn't a zoner dude

Well the gameplan is to keep them away from you as much as possible and one of the main tools he gets for doing that are his mid knives, so if he isn't a zoner then what do you think he is?

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Well the gameplan is to keep them away from you as much as possible and one of the main tools he gets for doing that are his mid knives, so if he isn't a zoner then what do you think he is?

Like many characters in this game, he has an archetype that isn't classified in just one category. A little rush down, a little zoning but...My opinion is that he is a turtle character.

For clarification: A turtle character is one that uses their safe tools at max range to capitalize on opponents mistakes. Patience and spacing are preferred tactics over rush down or zoning and his tools are optimal for this.

Subzero is best possible definition of a turtle character