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General/Other - Kano Is Kano better on paper than he is in-game?

xMEECH

Dyslexic
I love Kano. He's really good in all 3 variations without being too dirty. If you lost to Kano you got outplayed.
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
Cyber will have his counter pick moments.

Commando I think is on the same tier as Cutthroat...yes I said it


Better watch yourself.

On a serious note, Kano's variations most likely go:

Cutthroat: A+/ high-Mid or low-High tier, definitely his best variation.
Cybernetic: A/ Mid tier who's main purpose is to counter-pick.
Commando: B/ Low tier, he sucks.
 
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SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
I still think that he's upper mid tier and nothing more.

Cutthroat = most likely high mid tier

Cybernetic and Commando = abysmal
shouldn't you be banned by saying abysmal ever again?

I also disagree that Jacqui looks good on paper. Her neutral sucks and her setups are unrealistic.
I think full auto is A/A+ honestly. her damage is stupid, the gun is great for space control or zoning, her mixups and 50/50s are punchwalk-like safe and she has good zoning,
 
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AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game


Better watch yourself.

On a serious note, Kano's variations most likely go:

Cutthroat: A+/ high-Mid or low-High tier, definitely his best variation.
Cybernetic: A/ Mid tier who's main purpose is to counter-pick.
Commando: B/ Low tier, he sucks.
I don't see why. He drops the overhead but gains command throws and parrys.

He gains b1, his 32 staggers instead of knocking down, and his footsies are still good.

His zoning is the same as CT and he still has damage.

What's the problem?
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
I don't see why. He drops the overhead but gains command throws and parrys.

He gains b1, his 32 staggers instead of knocking down, and his footsies are still good.

His zoning is the same as CT and he still has damage.

What's the problem?
Parries are a huge fucking bill, Command grab is alright but outside of d4 he has no good tick throw options(lmao F33), B1 is nice but leads to absolutely nothing and your opponent doesn't have to fear you at all, he's got whiffing problems out the ass, and does no damage.

If you're having any success with him now it's probably because the opponent is inexperienced or just sucks. Sun God can do everything Commando can do but far better, minus the projectile.
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
I don't see why. He drops the overhead but gains command throws and parrys.

He gains b1, his 32 staggers instead of knocking down, and his footsies are still good.

His zoning is the same as CT and he still has damage.

What's the problem?
His footsies suffer, and his string/grab 50/50 isn't as good as CT 50/50. Having to guess high/low makes parries redundant in some MU's.

I think personally Commando is downplayed, but it's hard to deny he is Kano's least useful variation. I can't really see that many MU's where CT isn't a flat out better pick.
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Parries are a huge fucking bill, Command grab is alright but outside of d4 he has no good tick throw options(lmao F33), B1 is nice but leads to absolutely nothing and your opponent doesn't have to fear you at all, he's got whiffing problems out the ass, and does no damage.

If you're having any success with him now it's probably because the opponent is inexperienced or just sucks.
He has damage, I thought that bill talking point was done with. But parries are a bit it of a bill. B1 is great when used properly.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Parries are a huge fucking bill, Command grab is alright but outside of d4 he has no good tick throw options(lmao F33), B1 is nice but leads to absolutely nothing and your opponent doesn't have to fear you at all, he's got whiffing problems out the ass, and does no damage.

If you're having any success with him now it's probably because the opponent is inexperienced or just sucks. Sun God can do everything Commando can do but far better, minus the projectile.
His footsies suffer, and his string/grab 50/50 isn't as good as CT 50/50. Having to guess high/low makes parries redundant in some MU's.

I think personally Commando is downplayed, but it's hard to deny he is Kano's least useful variation. I can't really see that many MU's where CT isn't a flat out better pick.
He has damage, I thought that bill talking point was done with. But parries are a bit it of a bill. B1 is great when used properly.
I at least think it is more versatile than cyber. I do agree CT is an overall better version of commando but not by much.
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
He has damage, I thought that bill talking point was done with. But parries are a bit it of a bill. B1 is great when used properly.
I was refering to meterless damage, ball cancel NJP combos do a hefty amount but it's still inconsistent for "most" people.

And yeah B1 is really good, but unless you're willing to take that risk with spending meter(and being punished) on the Ball cancel combo, the most you'll get out of it is B13~Choke/Ball which really isn't something to scare your opponent. Of course you can do cute shit like B13 D4~Command Grab, but if your opponent knows the MU they'll eventually see through your tricks and full combo punish. 14% command grab vs 30%+ punish is hardly a decent trade.

I'm not saying that Commando's tools are bad, it's just that they don't mix and mash very well with each other compared to Cyber or Cutthroat tools.
 
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Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
I at least think it is more versatile than cyber. I do agree CT is an overall better version of commando but not by much.
But the issue is that Cyber brings an alternate strategy to CT which is the alpha variation, while Commando essentially wants to do the same thing as CT but it doesn't do it nearly as well.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
But the issue is that Cyber brings an alternate strategy to CT which is the alpha variation, while Commando essentially wants to do the same thing as CT but it doesn't do it nearly as well.
I could try to argue that commando has the better comeback potential through parrys. He can take no chip damage and turn the momentum.

It's a situational strategy that the other two don't have. He also doesn't need to be in comeback land to use this.

He doesn't have a flowchart strategy like the other two variations which can make him seem weaker. But I honestly believe that if you can outplay and out think your opponent, commando can be very very scary in ways the other two can't. Just my opinion though.
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
I was refering to meterless damage, ball cancel NJP combos do a hefty amount but it's still inconsistent for "most" people.

And yeah B1 is really good, but unless you're willing to take that risk with spending meter(and being punished) on the Ball cancel combo, the most you'll get out of it is B13~Choke/Ball which really isn't something to scare your opponent. Of course you can do cute shit like B13 D4~Command Grab, but if your opponent knows the MU they'll eventually see through your tricks and full combo punish. 14% command grab vs 30%+ punish is hardly a decent trade.

I'm not saying that Commando's tools are bad, it's just that they don't mix and mash very well with each other compared to Cyber or Cutthroat tools.
We have to talk top level when we're referring to these things. Meterless damage is crap your right, which is something his other variations do better, but when it comes to the ball cancels they're not risky or inconsistent.

I agree about the last paragraph. He loses range and damage in return for average parries and worse mixups.
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
I could try to argue that commando has the better comeback potential through parrys. He can take no chip damage and turn the momentum.

It's a situational strategy that the other two don't have. He also doesn't need to be in comeback land to use this.

He doesn't have a flowchart strategy like the other two variations which can make him seem weaker. But I honestly believe that if you can outplay and out think your opponent, commando can be very very scary in ways the other two can't. Just my opinion though.
If you're playing against a character with a decent low then your parry might as well not even exist, it's a 50/50 chance where if you guess right then you'll get 12%ish but they can get a full combo punish, and then there's the situation where they can read the parry and also punish. I'd rather commit to Ex ball cancel or backdash if I want an easy way out.
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
I could try to argue that commando has the better comeback potential through parrys. He can take no chip damage and turn the momentum.

It's a situational strategy that the other two don't have. He also doesn't need to be in comeback land to use this.

He doesn't have a flowchart strategy like the other two variations which can make him seem weaker. But I honestly believe that if you can outplay and out think your opponent, commando can be very very scary in ways the other two can't. Just my opinion though.
Think of it this way about his mixups: compare them to CT's mixups where in certain situations both are guaranteed and both lead to 30+%, where in the same situations Commando's grabs are never guaranteed, and the whole mixup always does less damage than CT's.

In situations where you can parry, you can also ex ball cancel, where you don't have to guess on what button they pressed or whether they jumped, you only have to guess on whether or not they pressed a button. CT just has to make fewer reads than Commando and gets more from his fewer reads, whilst also having far more threatening footsies.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
If you're playing against a character with a decent low then your parry might as well not even exist, it's a 50/50 chance where if you guess right then you'll get 12%ish but they can get a full combo punish, and then there's the situation where they can read the parry and also punish. I'd rather commit to Ex ball cancel or backdash if I want an easy way out.
That's like saying "I can't ex rising karma cause if i get baited I get full comboed"

The fact that you have made them hesitate means the move is effective enough.