Is Injustice's "Round" System Flawed?

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

There is a difference, which you fail to understand.

The difference is that if she does a teleport in a new round, she is losing lots of life and potentially the entire round.

In Injustice's system, she is only losing the additional life that she has, which means she can take extra risks that she would not be able to take in a traditional round system.

You fail to understand that you play the same regardless.

Your example just proves my point. The difference is in a new "round" she is already UP one round.... meaning she cannot lose the match. She is going to play the same regardless. She'll take more risks regardless.... to end the match early. Or in Injustice's case... to simply build meter for a more advantageous round. The player who is down a round now has to burn their meter trying to catch up to the round. So even if they win.... they are still at a huge meter disadvantage.

So please explain to me how i'm wrong again.

Its an illusion.

 

[TarkatanDentist]

Which other games? Explain.

I do not care about non-fighting games such as the Smash series.

Troll much?

 

[Jay Rupp]

Which other games? Explain.

I do not care about non-fighting games such as the Smash series.

Umvc3 has a similiar mechanic, except no resets after KO.

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[M2Dave]

You fail to understand that you play the same regardless.

Your example just proves my point. The difference is in a new "round" she is already UP one round.... meaning she cannot lose the match. She is going to play the same regardless. She'll take more risks regardless.... to end the match early. Or in Injustice's case... to simply build meter for a more advantageous round. The player who is down a round now has to burn their meter trying to catch up to the round. So even if they win.... they are still at a huge meter disadvantage.

So please explain to me how i'm wrong again.

Its an illusion.

The difference is that Batgirl may lose more than 25-30% for attempting a risk in a single "round".

Also, another major difference is that the losing player does not necessarily start a "round" with a full life bar in Injustice. If I kill Batgirl when I have 80% of life left, I do not gain a full life bar as I do in a traditional fighting game.

Umvc3 has a similiar mechanic, except no resets after KO.

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UMvC3 has X-Factor, three different characters, etc. etc.

The entire premise is totally different.

 

[Everlast]

god damn it sounds like ppl just want easy wins or a non exciting match. i believe that a disadvantage will bring out the best in your game play. and like someone said earlier, if you got bodied the 1st round who's fault is that? its a fighting game and its about competition not about easy matches. is there anybody in this community that enjoys hard fought matches? is there anybody that likes the game for the competition. everyone starts EVEN, who wins the match depends on the players and how THEY play at that moment not if the system is flawed or not. i personally enjoy playing the best guys even tho i know im not as good. it brings out the best in me and i NEVER place blame on the game for any reason, if i got out played then so be it, that player is good, and i need to work on things.

 

[Jay Rupp]

The difference is that Batgirl may lose more than 25-30% for attempting a risk in a single "round".

Also, another major difference is that the losing player does not necessarily start a "round" with a full life bar in Injustice. If I kill Batgirl when I have 80% of life left, I do not gain a full life bar as I do in a traditional fighting game.



UMvC3 has X-Factor, three different characters, etc. etc.

The entire premise is totally different.

X factor has nothing to do with the round system unless you get technical. If you look at each characters life as a round, they are sort of a like(w/o resets). You really dont get what Im trying to say? I personally enjoy the round system, it breaks up the monotony.

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[rev0lver]

Exactly.

That is what I mean by "second clash", which is pretty much what the "round" transition does.

You know you love it.

Really though, I remember being told before by someone that NRS did it intentionally to help zoning. But realistically, I think it hurts some chars more than it helps zoning. If I have 20% health vs Sinestro and he's anywhere on his first lifebar, there's practically nothing I can do to come back even if I make my way in.

 

[KIllaByte]

I have been playing Injustice: GAU offline and online more than ever and I have as much fun using Zod as I did using Freddy in Mortal Kombat 9. I have noticed, recently in particular, the difficulties in making a comeback once you lose lots of life, but I could never figure out why. The mix ups (i.e., 50/50 and vortex) are as strong as ever and interactable objects provide the opportunity to deal quick, unblockable 16-22% of damage. After analyzing the game, I have come to the conclusion that the no round system is the issue.

The player who wins the first "round" has a tremendous advantage. Unlike in other traditional fighting games, the remnants of your life bar are transferred. Batgirl can, for example, beat Sinestro in the first "round" with 25% of extra life (125% in reality) while Sinestro has access to 100% of life. Not only does Batgirl have 25% of more life, the key is that she can afford to take more risks. If she attempts an MB teleport, she can potentially end the fight with the 50/50 mix ups. If the MB teleport is blocked, she cannot lose more than 25% of life because of the "round" transition, which kind of behaves like a second clash for the winning player. The opposite scenario gives an advantage to Sinestro. If he has an extra 25% of life, he can take more risks by charging his trait. If Batgirl takes the bait and does a teleport, Sinestro can do at least 30% of damage and potentially finish charging his trait, which puts Batgirl, as great of a mix up character as she may be, in an extremely disadvantageous position to make a comeback. If Sinestro happens to be caught by the teleport, he loses 25% of life, the combo stops, and the playing field is now even at 100% of life for each character. The point again is that making a comeback on the winning player is very difficult because of extra life.

Imagine if in Mortal Kombat 9 Kabal and Kenshi won the first round and then had the opportunity to transfer extra life into the second round, fighting them would be even more so difficult than it already is.

I want to ask all players of this community the following questions.

1. Is Injustice's round system flawed?
2. Does this system favor top tier characters as they will be winning more?
3. Does this system favor certain types of characters? 50/50 mix up / vortex characters? Rush down characters? Zoning characters?
4. How should the player who is losing approach the fight? What should be the mentality?
5. Should this system be in the next Mortal Kombat game?

Injustice's system fits best with a game like Injustice, in which the subject matter is Superheroes and Supervillains fighting each-other.
It's a long comic book battle of colossal proportion.
Batman will not get up and forget about the Motorcycle that just ran him over, you dig?
It ebbs and flows, back and forth, and fits with the theme of DETERIORATION that all comic book battles have. Starting strong and seemingly untouchable, then, slowly being brought down to nothing, at the end of the red health bar.

 

[Chuckychuck]

thanks, now i know smart play is for pussies.

Pusssssyyyyyyy

 

[Mighty Durpyena]

It's only unfair when you play Martian Manhunter, Because Zatanna's Rape in the corner is completely fair compared to Over Head Teleport.

 

[Tony at Home]

The round system favors zoners....

But really, its more the issue of the mobility of certain characters being awful- the round-closing distance wouldnt be so bad if dashing was an option against zoners....

 

[RYX]

The round system favors zoners....

But really, its more the issue of the mobility of certain characters being awful- the round-closing distance wouldnt be so bad if dashing was an option against zoners....

the round system favors people who have the life lead

 

[Vulcan Hades]

This was a bigger issue in vanilla Injustice where the gap was significant between top 5 and the rest. Now it's more balanced but still noticeable.

Whether it's a problem or not depends on how you see it. Of course some people will say the harder it is to comeback from behind the better it is because it requires more "skill" than Ultras/X-factor. But that doesn't change the fact that comebacks are hype no matter how easy or hard they are to pull off. So from a viewership stand point it's still important because viewers and hype is what decides what games get more stream time and it can indirectly influence the number of entrants etc.

I've always said the no round system favors mid-range and zoning type characters, because they are better at protecting the life lead. Rushdown characters always play the same regardless of if they have a life lead or not so they can't really "take advantage of the system" as much.

If you have 30% green left vs 100% red health, that means the 3rd round is 30% handicap in your favor. But it also means any damage and chip you deal while you still have your green is worth twice as much. Not to mention your remaining green life essentially converts into meter gain for the last round, so you can afford to spend more meter than your opponent and take more risks.

Grundy, Wonder Woman and Aquaman are some of the best at conserving green health because they have traits that prevent damage.

And personally I think any character with life regen could potentially be top 5 at the end of the game's life. Because having the life lead means everything in this game.

 

[rev0lver]

The round system favors zoners....

But really, its more the issue of the mobility of certain characters being awful- the round-closing distance wouldnt be so bad if dashing was an option against zoners....

Some chars have really good dashes though. Just not us lol. I don't know why, it doesn't even matter how hard you try. Keep that in mind, because Lex is one of only a few chars with really bad options against zoning. The way NRS designed this game, the mechanics might work in a lot of matchups, but characters like Lex get shafted. Like how we watch the clock tick life away against Zatanna pre-patch lol. I'm not hating on zoning, in spite of the way Woundcowboy's mocking me I think they're cool. It's just stupid that I can try so hard and get so far against zoning characters, when you have to work overtime to do anything against them. Then in the end, it doesn't even matter.

 

[BaronVonRupert]

Pusssssyyyyyyy

i main grundy btw.

awesome

i like what you did there.

 

[Chuckychuck]

i main grundy btw.

I approve of your main. I like you now.

 

[migosan]

yes i think so, for example, if the player who still has the advantage rd1 life, has a pixel life, he will instinctively gain momentum, just to preserve that eeny weeny tiny pixel life that he has, i think he would do his damn best just to preserve that 1 bit of life evading / doing damage on the already disadvantaged character trying to comeback and squish that tiny pixel life with his 2nd rd life, i dont know but this always happens to me, i play urgently thus gaining more advantage when having my first rd pixel life left while the opponent is trying to kill me

 

[Minh Giang]

if mk10 has this shit, i'll kill Ed Boon.
how can i hear the badass "round 1", "round 2", "fight", "flawless viectory" with Injustice's system? ;_;

 

[ZalliX]

This post seems very silly to me, but I guess its by m2dave so......there's that.

If you are defeated by a perfect, You now have relatively full meter. Its up to you to make this count. You can deal 45%+ combos with 2 meters that your opponent cannot clash out of. So basically 2-3 touches and its even again.


If you can't deal 45% combos or kill your opponent in 2-3 touches, with full meter, and your opponent can, You're gonna get bodied anyway.

In regards to positioning, the round system has a possibility to give an advantage to either or neither . I like the round system because it adds another level of meter managing strategy, and the sort.

The round system is very deep and to say that you are at a disadvantage because you need to play "safer" or your opponent can take more "risks" is... "Previous" level thinking when it comes to approaching this fighting game.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Some chars have really good dashes though. Just not us lol. I don't know why, it doesn't even matter how hard you try. Keep that in mind, because Lex is one of only a few chars with really bad options against zoning. The way NRS designed this game, the mechanics might work in a lot of matchups, but characters like Lex get shafted. Like how we watch the clock tick life away against Zatanna pre-patch lol. I'm not hating on zoning, in spite of the way Woundcowboy's mocking me I think they're cool. It's just stupid that I can try so hard and get so far against zoning characters, when you have to work overtime to do anything against them. But in the end, it doesn't even matter.

Unless you're WoWo Batgirl or KF.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Leave the round system alone, nerf braindead guesswork safe 50/50s.

The problem is that in a game with Pushblock, MB b3, Wager and no rounds, you HAVE TO give some characters braindead safe or adv. 50/50s otherwise those rushdown characters would get bopped for free. It would become too easy to block/escape their pressure and run away with the life lead.

There is a decent balance right now between keepaway characters and vortex characters. But that balance ends when a character can both rushdown/vortex AND control mid-range and/or far away space. e.g. vanilla Superman/Black Adam, MMH, Zod, Wonder Woman and Grundy were, are, and will always be superior to characters like Flash and Bane.

But you can't nerf the bullshit because the bullshit is what balances this game.

 

[RagingNight]

X factor has nothing to do with the round system unless you get technical. If you look at each characters life as a round, they are sort of a like(w/o resets). You really dont get what Im trying to say? I personally enjoy the round system, it breaks up the monotony.

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doesn't work for marvel at all. When a round starts in any game outside the vs series, you aren't instantly put in a 50/50 situation where you die if you guess wrong. Sometimes its not even one 50/50 but like 4 50/50s in a row. There are no "rounds" in marvel. So the comparison doesnt work

The only comparison is DS, KI, and smash. It works for DS pretty well but that is a momentum base game. The game is fast pace (faster than IG will ever be) and thus momentum can swing very fast. So its fine in DS. IG is a bit slower and thus the momentum is harder to swing.

 

[JTB123]

At first I didn't like it but the more I played the more it I came to like it. For one thing, it does make the game feel different, but I like how it encourages a particular style of play early on. For the first health bar, I play very cautiously, because very combo is going to hurt and I have no way out of my mistake unless my opponent drops a punish or a combo, which in turn makes me want to nail every single combo or punish I can do 100% of the time. Otherwise I'm letting my opponent get away with mistakes for free.

In the second health bar, if I still have some of mine left, I can afford to take huge risk/rewards more because I have some of that health left. If they pay off then that puts a lot of pressure on my opponent, I also like how it makes meter management important. I've played a lot of people that clash on the second hit of a combo no matter what it is when they only 1 bar, and I've seen people spend more bars than necessary depending on when they clash. The health system really made me dig deeper into meter stuff because of that.

In short, I think it's a good system which the game seems well designed for and makes it work. But I don't want MK10 to have it.

 

[Vithar]

In MK/SF you have to win 2 out of 3 rounds with 100%hp vs 100%hp every round.
In Injustice you must win 1 round with 200% hp vs 200% hp.
No matter what game you play , losing round or hp gives you disadvantage ... if you lose 1 round in MK you need to win 2 and the enemy only 1 , if u lose the ''semi round '' in Injustice your enemy has just a bigger chunk of life.
I think both systems are good but i prefer the MK/SF .

 

[CptXecution]

I don't have a problem with the round system in the game, I feel it adds depth to the game.

The thing I agree with most that people are saying is your opponent getting thrown full screen instead of something like just outside jump distance.