Is Injustice's "Round" System Flawed?

[Jack Slate]

I don't think it's flawed at all, but I also enjoy the Darkstalkers series quite a bit, so I enjoy the health bar system. It was the same in KI as well so I think it is okay. In general I don't like come back mechanics because I feel like they are a system that actively punishes me for performing well in a match. I've been playing fighting games since SF2 so I know I'm biased as hell toward the older games, but performing better then my opponent should mean that I take that round. If I make better reads then my opponent, I should have a higher chance to obtain the victory. So having something like X-factor which puts me in a situation where I have to deal with making correct reads on characters moving 75%-100% faster and dealing twice as much damage is just not really what I look for in a fair fighting game mechanic.

 

[1man3letters]

i like the round system in this game but wouldnt really like to see it in mk

 

[RaidenFridges]

I like the normal way better.

 

[Enigma642]

Even the player who loses the life bar first has a point at which full combos against them will be cut short due to round transition, and risk reward is in their favor at that point. I don't know why you are pretending that only one player achieves that advantage during the course of the match. I don't have a problem with the round system. The way I see it, both players have a set amount of health, and both players get a free breaker at the 50% life point. If you want to come back, you need to outplay your opponent.

 

[RunwayMafia]

I'm not too sure...I've only ever known the MK life bar system. I will say, however, I rage when I lose the first round with my opponent only having a SLIVER of life left...then getting stuck in a vortex or 40% combo. It just feels so hard to get back into the match...

 

[-Deadman-]

Everybody is human and everybody makes mistakes. If you screw something up on your job does that mean you should be fired then and there?

I agree, everyone is human and everyone does make mistakes. However, you're exaggerating what I'm saying. If you make a mistake, consequences happen. I keep reading "if I make 1 mistake, I deserve to lose?" if you're playing a game with characters that have massively high damage potential and nearly unblockable setups, then yes maybe you do. You chose to play said game, you made said mistake, you should have to deal with what happened.

I like that you bring the real life work reference into this. If I work at a bank, and make a mistake that causes a large amount of money come up missing, yes I expect to be fired. Because I chose to work there, I made a decision (albeit the wrong one), and it caused a bad situation. My boss isn't going to see the numbers, see that my mistake caused the loss of money and then give me a promotion because I fucked up.

 

[AZ MotherBrain]

Great question. I personally not a fan of the round system in this game, but it is what it is.

 

[RM Truth]

I agree, everyone is human and everyone does make mistakes. However, you're exaggerating what I'm saying. If you make a mistake, consequences happen. I keep reading "if I make 1 mistake, I deserve to lose?" if you're playing a game with characters that have massively high damage potential and nearly unblockable setups, then yes maybe you do. You chose to play said game, you made said mistake, you should have to deal with what happened.

I like that you bring the real life work reference into this. If I work at a bank, and make a mistake that causes a large amount of money come up missing, yes I expect to be fired. Because I chose to work there, I made a decision (albeit the wrong one), and it caused a bad situation. My boss isn't going to see the numbers, see that my mistake caused the loss of money and then give me a promotion because I fucked up.

I suppose in the end we're all entitled to our opinions, but that's also another great part of being human. The games where one mistake means you lose are usually the games that have those mechanics and I personally think they're invaluable for those games. It really doesn't bother me that this game doesn't have it as the pressure and mental alertness needed for this game is nothing compared to Capcom fighters. At the end of the day though, I guess it comes down to personal preference.

 

[haketh]

It's really easy t see who hear actually really played VSAV seriously with he comparisons, yeah both games share the keeping life loss mechanic inbetween rounds but their are key differences in VSAV that make is completely different.

1. You regain a portion of life lost from normals, it benefits the person who won the round a bit more but it gives the losing player a bit more leeway in the match

2. Pushblock is free and has different lengths you can push them, this is important because it lets the person behind dictate where they want their opponent to be

3. Characters have better movement options and meter isn't quite as important in IGAU.

4. Most important YOU CAN MOVE INBETWEEN ROUNDS AND CHARACTERS AREN'T SENT FLYING, this is huge because it opens up the gap in IGAU between zoning/keepaway characters and those with great footsies tools. I haven't been a fan of how the game handles Clashes and round enders for this reason, it really benefits certain characters well. Sometimes I'm not even mad I get clashed or lose a life bar because it gives me the spacing I want as Deathstroke or Ares. You have no diea how much it would suck for a character like Viktor if he got all the way in on Zabel, won a round and Zabel got put back where he can dictate the pace of a match.

 

[haketh]

Same way breakers work in BB.
First life bar would have none.
Loser gets 1 for the next round.
etc etc

That's not how burst works in BB

 

[Doombawkz]

That's not how burst works in BB

I know you get one to start, but I was talking in reference to this game.
You would start with none, gain one as you lost a round, etc.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

There is no "difference" between the systems.

You get the same advantage/disadvantage from each

You're just seeing an illusion of the game. Imagine if this game had a single life bar first to 2 round system. If Batgirl went up a round... imagine how much MORE yolo should/could be because she stocked an ENTIRE life bar for the round.

Both systems cater to the same things.....

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Everyone has 200% life.

The problem is, you got outplayed first. You, as well, had a chance to take a risk, let's say with 10% health left, and you guessed wrong, you only lost 10% instead of 45%, lost the round, and are given space to breathe.

The problem is you need to play as if it's one round, which I have been doing. There is no life reset.

When your opponent has 25% life, try and kill them using a combo that doesn't require meter, etc. to be more ready for the final round.

 

[haketh]

I know you get one to start, but I was talking in reference to this game.
You would start with none, gain one as you lost a round, etc.

Ah I see your point

 

[RM Truth]

There is no "difference" between the systems.

You get the same advantage/disadvantage from each

You're just seeing an illusion of the game. Imagine if this game had a single life bar first to 2 round system. If Batgirl went up a round... imagine how much MORE yolo should/could be because she stocked an ENTIRE life bar for the round.

Both systems cater to the same things.....

It is different. When you won a round in Mortal Kombat with 50% of your life left, you didn't start the next round with 50% of your life.

 

[haketh]

No I don't think it's flawed. At the very least there isn't a dumb universal comeback mechanic in this game unlike AE or Mahvel.

Just because dumber mechanics exist in other games doesn't excuse this slightly less dumb mechanic.

 

[RM Truth]

No I don't think it's flawed. At the very least there isn't a dumb universal comeback mechanic in this game unlike AE or Mahvel.

I really don't understand this hatred of comeback mechanics. Serious question no kappa, do the people complaining about it actually play the games that have them seriously?

 

[Doombawkz]

I'm a bigger fan of games that allow you to move in the intro-screens instead of "intro movie, intro movie, fight".
Imo the ability to begin pressure before the match even starts would help more than any comeback mechanic.

 

[OnlineRon91]

It will not favor one character over another. The advantage is given to the player whose leading regardless of the character they use. I wouldn't call this round system flawed, it just heavily favors the aggressor. I don't prefer it over the traditional round system.

 

[xSMoKEx]

I have been playing Injustice: GAU offline and online more than ever and I have as much fun using Zod as I did using Freddy in Mortal Kombat 9. I have noticed, recently in particular, the difficulties in making a comeback once you lose lots of life, but I could never figure out why. The mix ups (i.e., 50/50 and vortex) are as strong as ever and interactable objects provide the opportunity to deal quick, unblockable 16-22% of damage. After analyzing the game, I have come to the conclusion that the no round system is the issue.

The player who wins the first "round" has a tremendous advantage. Unlike in other traditional fighting games, the remnants of your life bar are transferred. Batgirl can, for example, beat Sinestro in the first "round" with 25% of extra life (125% in reality) while Sinestro has access to 100% of life. Not only does Batgirl have 25% of more life, the key is that she can afford to take more risks. If she attempts an MB teleport, she can potentially end the fight with the 50/50 mix ups. If the MB teleport is blocked, she cannot lose more than 25% of life because of the "round" transition, which kind of behaves like a second clash for the winning player. The opposite scenario gives an advantage to Sinestro. If he has an extra 25% of life, he can take more risks by charging his trait. If Batgirl takes the bait and does a teleport, Sinestro can do at least 30% of damage and potentially finish charging his trait, which puts Batgirl, as great of a mix up character as she may be, in an extremely disadvantageous position to make a comeback. If Sinestro happens to be caught by the teleport, he loses 25% of life, the combo stops, and the playing field is now even at 100% of life for each character. The point again is that making a comeback on the winning player is very difficult because of extra life.

Imagine if in Mortal Kombat 9 Kabal and Kenshi won the first round and then had the opportunity to transfer extra life into the second round, fighting them would be even more so difficult than it already is.

I want to ask all players of this community the following questions.

1. Is Injustice's round system flawed?
2. Does this system favor top tier characters as they will be winning more?
3. Does this system favor certain types of characters? 50/50 mix up / vortex characters? Rush down characters? Zoning characters?
4. How should the player who is losing approach the fight? What should be the mentality?
5. Should this system be in the next Mortal Kombat game?

Good analysis of the round system. Add to the equation that for power characters, interactables are only used once (for most of them anyways) and do not reset because there are no rounds. If a player wins the first life bar with a decent life lead using many of the interactables the stage has to offer, you're at a pretty severe disadvantage.

Add into the equation the fact that some moves when meter burned are ridiculous in terms of chip (MB Lightning for Black Adam, MB Trident Rush for Aquaman, etc.) making their "late game" even better. Now, because they have more life, and are thus able to build more meter via taking more damage and using more attacks and specials they have ANOTHER advantage because they can use their ridiculous meter burn resources more than the player who lost the first round. One could argue that if you had a huge life lead in traditional round-system games you could just meter build using specials, and then finish off your opponent, however you run the risk of your opponent coming back on you because the character can deal their optimal damage. Injustice where basically have a handicap over you and they do not deal optimal damage because you can do a stupidly high risk/reward situation in the game, and if it's blocked / read you should be losing 40% but instead your losing 15% because that's all the life bar system allows you to lose. Should this risk/reward situation work however, you get full damage.

Personally, I believe that one round in a fight means nothing, hell sometimes a few games means nothing. Is this not the reason why the community always fights for longer sets in tournaments (Because they realize inconsistencies are bound to happen, and increasing the set reduces these inconsistencies by giving the superior player more chances to out-play their opponent). Now, think of the current system as a 2/3 set and the 3/5 the traditional round system. Can you not easily lose a match in tournament right? Is it not also true that you can lose a round terribly, but end up winning the next two rounds in MK9? How many times have we seen someone get flawlessed the first round, only to come back and win the next 2 rounds convincingly because the round system allows for this (What I consider to be the better player winning, opinions will of course vary). The Injustice round system does not allow for these sorts of comeback factors because it simply punishes the player who lose their first life bar, and doesn't have as even of a playing field at all times as other fighters due to intractable inconsistencies.

It's not broken or terrible or anything, but for fighters I honestly prefer the usual round system. It's at the end of the day I suppose but I do think the system has some major unquestionable flaws.

 

[M2Dave]

There is no "difference" between the systems.

You get the same advantage/disadvantage from each

You're just seeing an illusion of the game. Imagine if this game had a single life bar first to 2 round system. If Batgirl went up a round... imagine how much MORE yolo should/could be because she stocked an ENTIRE life bar for the round.

Both systems cater to the same things.....

There is a difference, which you fail to understand.

The difference is that if she does a teleport in a new round, she is losing lots of life and potentially the entire round.

In Injustice's system, she is only losing the additional life that she has, which means she can take extra risks that she would not be able to take in a traditional round system.

 

[M2Dave]

xSMoKEx, the answer for tournaments is 3/5. Perhaps it can happen if both KCP and KTP push for it together.

The character who gets momentum in the beginning of the round is very difficult to stop for the following reasons.

- receives one bar of meter
- can position himself / herself close to an interactable object
- can take / threaten to take advantage of the interactable object
- benefits of the game's round system

When I use Zod, I can sometimes tell whether I am going to win or lose the fight within the first five seconds. That is wrong.

 

[Lucas Rasera Miranda]

1. Is Injustice's round system flawed?
No. Since the beginning it has been 'advertised' as one of the particularities of this game. And, for me at least, it does look unique.

2. Does this system favor top tier characters as they will be winning more?
I don't think the system favors certain characters as much as it is a problem to some others. Sinestro for instance. As he is really trait dependent, he won't have it at the beginning of the match. So it is more likely that he is going to lose the first round.

3. Does this system favor certain types of characters? 50/50 mix up / vortex characters? Rush down characters? Zoning characters?
If it does favor any character, I would say it favors the most damaging ones. As they will have the opportunity to take more risks (once they win the first round)

4. How should the player who is losing approach the fight? What should be the mentality?
When I am on this situation I try to focus on taking his first life without making any mistakes. I try and play as safe as I can.

5. Should this system be in the next Mortal Kombat game?
NO, PLEASE!

 

[Skkra]

1. Is Injustice's round system flawed?
No, just different. KOF has the same thing, and it's an incredible game. That game, however, DOES allow for super high damage character-killing combos, so there is a more of a chance to actually make a comeback.


2. Does this system favor top tier characters as they will be winning more?
It favors defensive characters, and many of the top tier characters have very good defensive keepout. When you're ahead by a bunch, there is zero reason to do anything but keep the other person as far away from you as possible.


3. Does this system favor certain types of characters?
See above. Anyone with a good keepout benefits from being in the lead and slowing the pace of the match.


4. How should the player who is losing approach the fight? What should be the mentality?
No idea. It's hard enough to land a juggle on Aquaman when you're in an even situation!


5. Should this system be in the next Mortal Kombat game?
Definitely not.

 

[shaowebb]

This topic is pretty valid. Its a 2 round endurance challenge not a two seperate round system. However, the second round also transfers your meter into a mechanic that both allows for a combo breaker and a health restore to offset this to a degree so its not as disastrous as it sounds. They also made certain that folks cant just pop it and wager nothing at no cost just to use it as a combo breaker since it costs you health to do that...in this manner they kept it from preventing comebacks in "Round 2" by making it so folks cant just kill your momentum for free once and try to fullscreen you afterwards in something like a runaway Sinestro vs Grundy match with Sinestro having led the whole set until then.

In the end I feel that "yes" the round system does provide a life lead, but it is not as harsh as it would appear since clashes exist in the second round to both regain health to offset that advantage and to break a combo and return you both to neutral corners.

The Injustice round system gives you more health and positioning advantage than stuff like SF but not as many advantages as say KOF XIII which offset its health advantages with the damage of high meter cost HD combos and strong Cancel combos that both dealt enough damage to run a whole team into the ground if you had saved it all for an anchor comeback...every endurance game comes up with its own methods to offset health leads and allow comebacks is why I mention that. Injustice uses clash, KoF XIII uses high damage meter dependent combos.

Injustice is a good setup with its round system...what makes it hard to run comebacks IMO is interactible damage and zoning strength...folks can runaway and win fairly easily in the second round by racking up damage pretty handily with these tools.