Question Is Batgirl Top 5?

[RM Truth]

And apparently I'm the BG downplayer =D.

I was called a downplayer on stream at FR even though I probably upplay her a lot.

 

[HomeLee1121]

I've never understood the reasoning for her losing to Batman. That MU always seemed even to me.

Its cuz batman has a trait to punish whiffs and he can syke her out with mb batarangs if she tries to teleport when batman is zoning. Thats what reno tells me

 

[Pan1cMode]

I've never understood the reasoning for her losing to Batman. That MU always seemed even to me.

He zones her out too effectively. She can't tele punish cause he can MB and block. His block pressure is hell because she has to risk a df2 or eat it all, or pushblock (then she has to get back in). He has similar mixups and damage so we don't beat him there. A BM with good trait management is an absolute nightmare for BG to face.

I consider myself to be the neutral party hahaha.

 

[astronout]

And apparently I'm the BG downplayer =D.

Not downplaying at all. It's because we have characters like Zod, MMH, WW, Batman, and Flash where all of these characters only have 0-2 bad MU's is why I don't think BG can be a top 5 character.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

She loses to MMH, Doomsday, Batman, Aquaman, WW, and KF. That's 6 bad Matchups. Most characters in the top 5 conversation only have a couple of bad matchups.

WoWo? really? thought that shit was even. I'll defer to you, I don't play BG

 

[astronout]

WoWo? really? thought that shit was even. I'll defer to you, I don't play BG

My WW experience comes from Foxy. she literally has all of the tools to deal with BG's shenanigans. Not to me too her own vortex both mid screen and corner that are + on block.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Not downplaying at all. It's because we have characters like Zod, MMH, WW, Batman, and Flash where all of these characters only have 0-2 bad MU's is why I don't think BG can be a top 5 character.

I agree she's not top 5 but don't think she loses to WW, DD or KF.

 

[astronout]

I agree she's not top 5 but don't think she loses to WW, DD or KF.

Where does you experience in these MU's come from?
Mines: Foxy, White Boi + PL, and Khaotik

 

[Pan1cMode]

Where does you experience in these MU's come from?
Mines: Foxy, White Boi + PL, and Khaotik

I can quote Australian players but they won't mean anything to you. Anyways, I'll be at EVO this year so looking forward to matches with you (if you're going).

There is no way she loses to DD. KF perhaps but I think that's quite a bit of a stretch. WW I'll admit I don't have an awful lot of experience with (sounds like you only have online experience too) so I won't comment much but I can't see it being a 4-6.

To be honest it sounds like you're losing to good players and mistaking it as a bad MU. Or perhaps you're not playing the MU correctly? Sonicfox certainly didn't have any trouble against Noobe's DD.

 

[JDM]

GL vs BM is about as 5-5 as it gets

nope

 

[astronout]

I can quote Australian players but they won't mean anything to you. Anyways, I'll be at EVO this year so looking forward to matches with you (if you're going).

There is no way she loses to DD. KF perhaps but I think that's quite a bit of a stretch. WW I'll admit I don't have an awful lot of experience with (sounds like you only have online experience too) so I won't comment much but I can't see it being a 4-6.

To be honest it sounds like you're losing to good players and mistaking it as a bad MU. Or perhaps you're not playing the MU correctly? Sonicfox certainly didn't have any trouble against Noobe's DD.

I go even with or beat the players I mentioned aside from Foxy. And in regards to Sonic Fox, he is extremely great player in general so him winning effortlessly against whichever opponent he plays isn't really a speaking point (he also didn't struggles against Brady's Aquaman but that didn't stop being a bad matchup). I won't be in attendance for EVO as I have basic training but I wish you well.

 

[lm Tweakk]

Batgirl is the destroyer of worlds.

 

[The Highlander]

She loses to MMH, Doomsday, Batman, Aquaman, WW, and KF. That's 6 bad Matchups. Most characters in the top 5 conversation only have a couple of bad matchups.

Why would she lose to WW? It seems like because you played foxy and lost you're exaggerating. No offence but I think that unless sonic fox is playing, no one is representing batgirl. Much like if you haven't played foxy you haven't played WoWo.

 

[Doombawkz]

@Doombawkz says it's even and I'm inclined to believe him. Although personally I'd accept 6-4 BG since I've never had any trouble in this MU at all.


BG can't wakeup cartwheel against Bane at all. Cartwheel in neutral is ok, but on whiff it gets blown up and if it's blocked we have to deal with the DP/BP/D1/D2 mindgame.

I think he might even be able to armour through the gap although I haven't tested that myself. He can always back dash it though.

It's all on who gets the life-lead and the banes ability to block and respond. I would say 5-5 personally too. Thats just me though, I don't really talk MUs much anymore so don't quote me on it lol.

As far as armor goes, we can armor through the gap but it's not reliable at all.

Also I personally don't feel she is top 5. Top 10 along with like half the cast, maybe, but IMO top 5 belongs to MMH, Flash, WW, Batman, and Aquaman with Zod in the conversation.

 

[astronout]

Why would she lose to WW? It seems like because you played foxy and lost you're exaggerating. No offence but I think that unless sonic fox is playing, no one is representing batgirl. Much like if you haven't played foxy you haven't played WoWo.

You may have a point. but Wonder Woman even on paper is not something Batgirl wants to deal with.

 

[Braindead]

Is the sky blue?
Is the grass green?
Is Batgirl top 5?

Why are we asking trivial questions again?

 

[TheSpore]

I don't think she is top 5 top 10 yeah believable, but she still some bad MUs that keep her from going top 5. There are just others that give her to hard a time.

 

[AugustAPC]

Batgirl's damage doesn't make sense for her character design. She does way too much. She's got insane pressure, great wake-up, freezing projectiles, is essentially immune to interactables and an insane vortex. She should be maxing out at 40% in the corner. Even with a 20-25% damage nerf, she'd still be top 5 contender.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Batgirl's damage doesn't make sense for her character design. She does way too much. She's got insane pressure, great wake-up, freezing projectiles, is essentially immune to interactables and an insane vortex. She should be maxing out at 40% in the corner. Even with a 20-25% damage nerf, she'd still be top 5 contender.

BG's pressure is meh at best. Without a 6 frame normal you basically block one string and the pressure ends. If you think it's great you just need to learn the matchup more. MMH and BM are examples of characters with great pressure. WW, Flash and Zod with trait come next. BG's is just 'ok'. You can MB several of the interactables and beat out reactionary teles. Also, OTG interactables exist. If you do a raw interactable, almost everyone in the cast can punish it.

With a 20% corner damage nerf, (which would necessarily nerf her vortex damage to Sinestro levels) she wouldn't even be in top 10 discussion. If the best I can do when I touch you in the corner is 35%+ no reset and my standard midscreen resets do about 20%, and I max out at 30% midscreen, I effectively have to guess right 4 times per lifebar. It's not even viable to do that. She essentially becomes scorpion with less meter dependency. She'd still be a solid mid tier character, but not in the discussion with characters like: MMH, BM, AM, WW, Zod, Flash, Sinestro, Raven, SM, BA, Bane, Raven, GL, KF and Zatanna.

I agree maybe a 10% damage nerf on corner damage only (say by increasing scaling on f2) so she still gets around 45-50% 1 bar and 35-40% meterless would still place her in top 10. But it's debatable whether or not she's in top 5 now. A damage nerf would almost certainly put her out of contention for top 5.

 

[n-megabytes]

Lol 60% of the community says she is top 5 so told you I was right!

 

[TKB]

@Pan1cMode, I think there's a very key character you're missing from the top 5 discussion. Bane has got to be in there. The character is just plain old fashioned broken now.

On that note, personally I don't think batgirl is top 5. Top 10? Absolutely. But IMO top 5 are

Aquaman
MMH
Bane
Flash
WW or Zod. Can't decide on the last spot.

Edit: lol I just realized this thread was bumped

Mod Edit: By a one-word post that has been deleted for being simply worthless.

 

[SonicFox5000]

Lol bg is top 5

 

[The_Furax]

She is in the top 5 conversation I think, I do not think she is top 5 for sure. IMO she probably loses to Aquaman (for sure), Batman, and MMH. It is very hard for BG to do much if the Batman player has really good bat management. MMH has more than enough tools to deal with her.

I agree with you. And with that being said, I personally assume that Frost has a MU chart a lilttle bit better than BG.

 

[Prinz]

I think she is. But when I say "top 5" I mean the potential of the character. There may be 15 characters in a game that may be top 5 in this regard, 7 that may be top 3 and 3 that may be nr.1, which can be either S, SS or god tier. So yeah, she is, and also she's broken.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

The question should be if she's top 1 or not. When weighing a character's tools against another's, please make sure you consider their actual weight. Because anti-zoning, mix-ups, etc. are all one thing, but her corner damage and ability to convert into a guessing game that carries there are just plain HEAVY.