If you have a problem with scorpion's teleport...

[jcbowie]

What happens when said casual runs into Liu Kang, Erron Black or Sonya who all have oppressive strings? What about subs? Complaints are rampant with him also.

Pointing to other characters who may or may not be addressed changes nothing about Scorpion and this move.

 

[Juggs]

Yet I'm still waiting for a Top 8 medal winning stud to take GGA SaucyJack up on his free money Nightwing challenge 6 years ago that he practically begged any top players to take his money.

The problem with these "perfect blocks in practice" videos is that they don't account for the other 50x variables in live matches. Show me a 10 game set of any player on any level punishing every single teleport or blocking every 50/50 Sub attempt. It won't happen, but it will happen in practice mode. To imply "just lab bro" as a solution to consistently punishing Scorpion's current version of a teleport is, well. It's a bit disingenuous.

You won’t be able to punish really anything 100% of the time. But the point in sharing tech like this is to show options and counterplay. People absolutely need to spend more time in the lab and grinding MU’s instead of complaining on social media. It’s absolutely counterproductive. Now if you’re complaining about something that is obviously broken like a bug or infinite or something, that’s different. That stuff needs to be spread around everywhere so NRS has a better chance of seeing it.

Anyway, on the topic, the cancel isn’t meant to be an easy thing to deal with, that’s the entire utility of the move and variation. I personally think Searing Rage is the better variation anyway. It’s already easy to get throw mixups with Scorpion in general because of jump kicks and the teleport threat. You have to second guess anti airing Scorpion because of the teleport, and since JK’s for some reason are VERY plus (ranging from +2 to +12), he can already easily get throw mix ups. Plus f3 exists. After all the complaining I really tried Reborn out a lot and it just felt really gimmicky. Being able to get 50% or so off of one mistake from them is much better, imo, than getting a throw at the cost of 1 defensive meter.

I still think a good way to balance the variation would be to take out the airthrow and add Misery Blade. As I’ve said I’d much rather have a Misery Blade + Demon Dash variation. But having Misery Blade + Teleports cancel would kinda balance out both moves. Since Misery Blade cancels and Teleport cancel both cost 1 bar of defensive meter, I think it would be a cool way to balance both of them. You would have to use them both far more sparingly and would also have to use wakeups more sparingly.

Just a suggestion though. I’m fine with just using Searing Rage.

 

[Jaywayday84]

Pointing to other characters who may or may not be addressed changes nothing about Scorpion and this move.

This move is your complaint I get it.

 

[jcbowie]

This move is your complaint I get it.

I may or may not have other complaints for those characters, but this is my complaint for this character.

 

[gam224]

Scorpion just kind of plays like an edgy anime character
Sub:Alright this guy looks tough maybe I can walk in a get up close
scorpion tp cancels
Scorpion: nothing personal kid

 

[Juggs]

Scorpion's teleport is one of those special moves that is highly oppressive at a casual to intermediate level of play. The level of skill required to punish the teleport greatly exceeds the level of skill required to take advantage of the move. People complained about Deadshot's and Dr. Fate's projectiles in Injustice 2 for the same reason. High level players punish the teleport very consistently, but it is still arguably the best special move in the game. I believe changing the initial hit to a high attack is likely the best solution in order to limit the random factor in the neutral game. If you change the start up frames of the teleport, you are potentially ruining Scorpion's combos and if you remove the teleport cancel, you are ruining one of his tournament variations.

I would be fine with making the teleport a high attack. See logical posts like this is something I can respect.

 

[Jaywayday84]

I may or may not have other complaints for those characters, but this is my complaint for this character.

Who do you main if you don't mind my asking?

 

[M2Dave]

What happens when said casual runs into Liu Kang, Erron Black or Sonya who all have oppressive strings? What about subs? Complaints are rampant with him also.

I prefer not to argue too much about what casual gamers can and cannot do, but one can reasonably assume that the vast majority of casual gamers cannot execute Erron Black's 2,1,2,1,2 string, much less cancel and hit-confirm into b,f+4, d+3. The same is likely true for Sonya's ring cancel and the combos.

The concept is simple to understand. The level of skill required to deal with the move greatly exceeds the level of skill required to take advantage of the move and hence the complaints.

 

[Jaywayday84]

I think it more of a lack of people not knowing frame data & how to apply it. You make a good case though.

 

[Bloodfang]

I can't... Scorpion nerfs? Like just a little bit ago it was "Scorpion's a bottom tier scrub-lord with all unsafe strings and specials, lol". Now it's nerf him into the netherrealm over his teleport? Seriously?

 

[santanabar]

I prefer not to argue too much about what casual gamers can and cannot do, but one can reasonably assume that the vast majority of casual gamers cannot execute Erron Black's 2,1,2,1,2 string, much less cancel and hit-confirm into b,f+4, d+3. The same is likely true for Sonya's ring cancel and the combos.

The concept is simple to understand. The level of skill required to deal with the move greatly exceeds the level of skill required to take advantage of the move and hence the complaints.

The fact that most of us only play only doesn't help either. It's super hard to react with online delay, plus the frame window you have to punish after first block is extremely small (if you delay the punish to avoid 2nd hit).

 

[santanabar]

Playing against this character in this neutral based game is simply not fun to me, win or lose. When people lose to my mediocre Johnny cage because they can’t play neutral and then character select to scorpion, something is wrong lol I don’t blame scorpion fans but the character is cheesy as fuck in this game. Good thing I have the choice to quit and move on!

100% agree. Having to block all the time, in every part of the screen is annoying as hell.

 

[qspec]

Lab and it would be quite fun

It's not. I can reliably punish him. He's simply not fun to play against.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

because there's no other way to takeaway the part of the screen that tells you which record option it is going to play

Well at least you tried helping others. What I wanna know is how you set the AI to cycle through two I'm assuming 4 record slots randomly? I still haven't figured this out?

 

[BS3OOO]

Yeah, make that shit a HIGH at least.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Some of you guys are just guys are set in your ways, you don't even want to fucking try lol.

I've personally labbed up responses to his teleport since he is the opponent on online 90% of the time. But what I think others are pissed about is not the fact that he has a Teleport but that he has the fastest one Without long recovery like all other teleports, he has advantage and it's unreactable when done on the fly. What I'm pointing out is it's a completely different beast to tackle in a competitive scene on the fly vs online random which usually telegraph thier movement.
It's that it closes distance from any where any time. Practice Mode is also different from combo breaker, you are in the mindset to counter at that moment vs's in a competitive match which you don't know when. It forces you to lock up and play a different way other than back and forth neutral.
Scorpion vs any character is His turn the. Your turn but afraid to use anymore with average recovery out of fear of the teleport when other matches consist of sloly working them in staying at footsie range and working in and out of the corner.

Scarlet, Raiden and Kollector, and every other character with teleport doesn't have the luxury of using a teleport close up and out of turn, especially not in the corner. Because thiers are not plus and have longer startup and recovery so they are punishable. Scorpion can use it anywhere eliminating the possiblity of keeping him in the corner. It should either be a high so he can use it in combos or the recovery should be longer when it doesn't connect or is blocked. But it's tricky because I want Scorpion to use TP in Combos so maybe making it a high is the best way.so there is a proper response and maybe a few frame of added startup so it's more reactible but still able to combo with.

 

[Shirakani]

I think it more of a lack of people not knowing frame data & how to apply it.

This is the ENTIRE goddamn problem. The words 'GIT GUD' have never applied to so many ppl in one hit as much as they do now. They'd have a legit complaint if say, the MB followup to the teleport was SAFE. Even then I'd be on the side of 'ok yeah that's a bit much' BUT IT ISN'T! BOTH HITS ARE UNSAFE!

Its like... ok kids you have two options, you can 1) Hold block for ONE SECOND MORE or 2) you can cry moar.

Guess which option everyone took.

I still think a good way to balance the variation would be to take out the airthrow and add Misery Blade. As I’ve said I’d much rather have a Misery Blade + Demon Dash variation. But having Misery Blade + Teleports cancel would kinda balance out both moves. Since Misery Blade cancels and Teleport cancel both cost 1 bar of defensive meter, I think it would be a cool way to balance both of them. You would have to use them both far more sparingly and would also have to use wakeups more sparingly.

Just a suggestion though. I’m fine with just using Searing Rage.

I'm a +1 for Misery Blade even on its own coz if scrubs are literally crying over the current teleport even with two UNSAFE hits on a MB.... They're going to fucking FLOOD THE EARTH AND DROWN THE DESERTS IN TEARS with Misery Blade considering that you don't even NEED the defensive stock.

The poke option alone is -2 and if you do say B14 xx db1... 3 whether it hits or is blocked, Scorpion is totally safe and can start up again... so start up again, either F42 or B14 and cancel into Misery Blade and go either high or low... hits? Good, repeat the mixup.... Blocked? Oh, still safe, look at that.... start mix up again! Considering that Scorpion's B14 forces you to block low and F42 is a canned low-high.... mixing Misery Blade into those strings is just flat out evil.

Compared to how strong he COULD be with Misery Blade... ppl crying over the teleport as it currently is is beyond laughable. Its so beyond laughable its not even funny, its just SAD.

 

[Gaxkang]

Let’s imagine that MK11 is a brand new IP that doesn’t have almost 30 years of recognition. NRS says, “this will be a neutral based fighter”. A character like Scorpion simply wouldn’t exist at all.

This is one of the pitfalls of having an established character that, on paper, has been broken from the on-set. A full screen projectile that stuns? A teleport that is guaranteed to make contact from anywhere on the screen? What?!

It doesn’t help that the same character is THE face of the brand. If they keep Scorpion true to the character, he doesn’t function within the rules of the game they’ve created. If they change him, he’s no longer the same character that everyone associates the game with. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

And we all know how well letting him sit out a game went...

Well if they really want a different direction, they gotta change things while sorta keeping them around.

As it is...fighting Scorpion right involves spending the fight always looking and waiting for the teleport stuff. When I fight Scorpion's it likely seems really obvious I'm doing that since I don't move around much and I hold block a lot. I've seen some Scorpions at a standstill because they are always looking to teleport and someone just standing and blocking throws them off.
Doesn't make for a very interesting fight heh.

 

[Shirakani]

Well if they really want a different direction, they gotta change things while sorta keeping them around.

As it is...fighting Scorpion right involves spending the fight always looking and waiting for the teleport stuff. When I fight Scorpion's it likely seems really obvious I'm doing that since I don't move around much and I hold block a lot. I've seen some Scorpions at a standstill because they are always looking to teleport and someone just standing and blocking throws them off.
Doesn't make for a very interesting fight heh.

You guys are forgetting Scorpion is now a neutral mixup heavy character because they went and took away his classic Spear meterless capture and vortex style gameplay. When you take away so much you gotta give something back.

Or would you rather deal with the classic vortex? I dunno about you but I find the current iteration FAR easier to deal with.

 

[cavemold]

Me too. My psn name is jaywayday add me. We can practice

Cavemold582

 

[Gaxkang]

You guys are forgetting Scorpion is now a neutral mixup heavy character because they went and took away his classic Spear meterless capture and vortex style gameplay. When you take away so much you gotta give something back.

Or would you rather deal with the classic vortex? I dunno about you but I find the current iteration FAR easier to deal with.

Being worried about one move that can get you from anywhere the whole fight can be a drag...further reforms could help. Same could for something similar someone else might have. Either that or one tries to equalize the feeling.
Like I mean...Shao Kahn vs. Scorpion, while Shao has to worry about the teleport, is there something Shao has that Scorpion has to worry about in the same way?

Fighting Scorpion one can a bit a bit less cautious than I tend to be, but if they teleport one's input has to be on time or else. If you can't breakaway there's a lot of damage and gotten off teleporting.

 

[wsj515]

The scrub mentality in this thread is wild. It is a really strong move, but I spent 5-10 minutes labbing reacting to regular/EX teleport and already can punish either ~ 75% of the time, if you spend any meaningful time practicing it you will notice drastic results. @GLoRToR deciding you won't lab something on principle because you think it doesn't belong in your ideal version of the game is hilariously pathetic.

People keep talking about how they are getting beaten by these trash players carried by teleport, but trash players will almost always be easily baited, so that should never be the case. Good players will try a random teleport once, and you being the solid player you are, have labbed it out so you punish, permanently changing the flow of the match because now they know you are on point. I don't think people realize how powerful that can be.

 

[Zoidberg747]

You guys are forgetting Scorpion is now a neutral mixup heavy character because they went and took away his classic Spear meterless capture and vortex style gameplay. When you take away so much you gotta give something back.

Or would you rather deal with the classic vortex? I dunno about you but I find the current iteration FAR easier to deal with.

I can't remember the last time Scorpion was actually considered top tier, even with his Vortex. He was always mid or low tier. This is definitely the best Scorpion has been in a long time.

Good Teleport Pressure utilizing cancels, throws, and advantage strings is indeed difficult to deal with. Does it need nerfs? Maybe not. But trying to say it is easy to deal with is just straight up downplaying.

 

[Rozalin1780]

I can't remember the last time Scorpion was actually considered top tier, even with his Vortex.

Deadly Alliance.

 

[GLoRToR]

deciding you won't lab something

When did I say I didn't lab it? Stop downplaying Scorpion, that's what's pathetic in this thread. All the people that worry about the nerfbat so much that they literally can't see how stupid teleport is right now.