Question If Kabal was nerfed, do you think the game would be less scrubby?

[gdf]

To be honest, it's something I never really understood about Kabal, here's a question for all players. But mainly for Kabal players. Lulzlou Relaxedstate Skitzo Cat

What makes Kabal broken? What scares a player when they fight him? I really need someone to list out the details of why he is overpowered.

 

[Cat]

To be honest, it's something I never really understood about Kabal, here's a question for all players. But mainly for Kabal players. Lulzlou Relaxedstate Skitzo Cat

What makes Kabal broken? What scares a player when they fight him? I really need someone to list out the details of why he is overpowered.

He has the best mix ups in the game. A lot of his strings ending with ndc leave him at advantage on block which makes it difficult to poke out of. He has two specials which he can end strings with. One being a overhead and one being a low which are not punishable by the majority of the cast. His combos end in a reset which grant him advantage for pressure which lead to mix ups and 50/50s again. He can also outzone a large number of the cast with his instant air gas blast that have lil recovery. Also his low saw comes out in 0 frames and is relatively fast. He can also get a toasty boost off his b212

 

[Axel_Redd]

Dash not being cancellable = Kabal might as well not have it, and pretty much removes an actually interesting aspect about him.

You don't need to neuter him to make him more fair. If people are capable of playing vs Kabal in his current state, there's really not much to tweak on him other than slight things. 16 Bit said it some time ago, a few things here and there, and this game is good.

Also, on the subject of broken characters, has anyone noticed that Kenshi is basically designed around how the game was at launch? As are Skarlet, Freddy and Rain?

Illmatix Kung Lao's only big, big nerf is spin's pushback being nerfed and his damage. Once people would've eventually learned the drawbacks of low hat pre-patch, it wouldn't have been nearly as big a deal as people make it out to be. 24 low hat/1+2 mixup wasn't even that good. 1+2 is blocked on reaction, so people didn't have a reason to stand block him outside of that and f2, which was also unsafe. Low hat was -7 on block. 21212 xx low hat was actually combo punishable because you could jump before low hat ever came out, and just letting 21212 rock was pointless because there was no reward for it, and the risk was stupid high. Eventually, people would've figured out that it wasn't as great as it was cracked up to be because no one would really care to stand block him. People still don't really care to, but he doesn't get raped for making you want to either. Spin's pushback was huge simply because it gave him basically a poke on some characters, but most of those particular characters don't really possess the type of offense that would make him want to spin them often in the first place anyway. The damage nerf was something that was guaranteed to hit him, and everyone took hits there, actually. Not to mention, with how the game is played now, and the above fact on 21212 xx low hat, X-Ray would've ended up used as much as it is now.

The character was never that easy to begin with, and was never really nerfed. The aspects they weakened weren't aspects that would be big factors now. Kung Lao is top tier because he's one of the few characters that completely says fuck all to a ground game. His mobility ends up making footsies nearly impossible to play, and for a number of characters, this ruins pretty much anything they want to do. This part of Kung Lao was NEVER touched, and is why he remains so good.

i wish he woulda had a mid hitting string tho....something a bit faster than b1f1....the new discovery of his late tele-3 on block not jailing is a problem now too....:/ how are u supposed to play around that?

 

[REO]

This is how I feel about it. In the old street fighter 2, the version with Akuma playable he is a very good character. He is at the top of the tier list, he is the only character in the game in S tier. He is also the only character in the game with 0 bad matchups, and 0 even matchups. Every single matchup he has is in his favor. The other top tier characters in A tier have a bad matchups, or at least a few even matchups, Akuma is the only character that beats every single other character. When playing Street Fighter 2 competitively in tournaments, they ban Akuma because they don't see a reason why there should be one character that is playable that dominates the whole cast. Yeah Akuma is beatable, but it is still not fair to have one character in the game that has an advantage over everyone else in competitive play.

Now lets talk about Super Smash Bros. Brawl. They have a similar situation in this game. There is only one character in S tier, Meta Knight, who is believed to have 0 bad matchups, and 0 even matchups, he wins every single matchup in the game vs every other character. In Brawl competitive play, they ban Meta Knight for his advantages over everyone else, just the same thing they do to Akuma.

Now on to MK9....... I would say we have the same problem again. Kabal is the only S tier character in the game, he is clearly above everyone else, he has 0 bad matchups and 0 even matchups. The rest of the top 5 characters all have bad matchups, and alot of even matchups as well. Kabal is literally the only character in the game that has advantage over every other character. He is the equivalent to Akuma in Street Fighter 2 and Meta Knight in Super Smash Bros Brawl. In my opinion he should be banned, there is no reason why there should be one character that is viable competitively and literally has ZERO bad matchups and ZERO even matchups. Don't give me that BS that Kung Lao goes even with Kabal because he's far from it I think.

Now LBSH, there are top players in this community that picked up Kabal only and solely because he is the best character in the game. I don't think there is one single person in the community we can name that has been using Kabal since day 1, everyone picked up this character because he is the best. If Kabal was only say top 10 instead of top 1, I don't think we would even see maybe two Kabals at the most in any tournament. Ban him or patch him, one of the two. And obviously we are not getting a patch any time soon....... so yeah lol

This is a good post. I wouldn't mind if this community decided to ban Kabal at the end of the day. If you think about it, it really isn't fair to have only one character who does not have a single 5-5 match-up or weakness. I will also admit Kabal definitely is a hype killer as well.

What do you guys think about banning Kabal for NEC?

 

[Prinz]

What do you guys think about banning Kabal for NEC?

It's worth a try.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

This is a good post. I wouldn't mind if this community decided to ban Kabal at the end of the day. If you think about it, it really isn't fair to have only one character who does not have a single 5-5 match-up or weakness. I will also admit Kabal definitely is a hype killer as well.

What do you guys think about banning Kabal for NEC?

No. Also didn't mean to hit like.

 

[Cat]

This is a good post. I wouldn't mind if this community decided to ban Kabal at the end of the day. If you think about it, it really isn't fair to have only one character who does not have a single 5-5 match-up or weakness. I will also admit Kabal definitely is a hype killer as well.

What do you guys think about banning Kabal for NEC?

Ban the one char I been using for more than a year? I think not!!

 

[REO]

Ban the one char I been using for more than a year? I think not!!

I've also been using him for over a year, but I think it's best if we look at it without bias and do what's best for the community.

 

[STRYKIE]

For the 94738173548675234848273th time...

What nerfs did Sub-Zero receive that that didn't apply to everyone exactly? Players cottoning on to a flowchart isn't a nerf..

 

[Cat]

I've also been using him for over a year, but I think it's best if we look at it without bias and do what's best for the community.

Banning him will be biased against kabal players. It's a lil too late to ban kabal if you asked me.

 

[STRYKIE]

Does he zone Hype or rush it down?

Neither, the invincibility glitch is the best way to keep hype honest, alternatively, if you don't feel confident in this, you can always check hype with Cyber Sub-Zero's invincibility glitch.

 

[GLoRToR]

You have to understand though, the character still needs to be usable.

Not having retarded shit doesn't make a character unusable. It will make the game less scrubby @op

 

[Lulzlou]

Not having retarded shit doesn't make a character unusable. It will make the game less scrubby @op

If you don't want to deal with retarded shit here is your solution
Take a look at this list and ban the S+ and S tier. Then you will have your perfect game that you want so much.

Spoiler

 

[matterovermind]

I've thought about this and my answer is no. He shouldn't be banned because of two reasons probably already listed in these 11 pages.

(1) If you can wield Kabal and succeed in tournament setting then you should deserve to use him. I have an OKAY understanding of why people think he's broken or why they get frustrated, but I honestly feel the threshold for his execution is very high, possibly the highest in the game so it kind of counter balances him. That is, you don't see many 'scrubs' (lack of better words) just picking him up or switching to him in tournament on a whim. Again, it's one thing to be good with this character in training mode and a completely different matter to be able to use him in a high pressure setting. If you can do it, and be successful too, cheers to you.

(2) It's forced a lot of people to step their game up, whether they know it or not. For example, I'm sure almost every person who has had a run in with Kabal has taken a step back, thought about it in relation to their own character and studied some frame data. These (and more) are all good things that will you make a better competitor in general, not just MK. I know this is the case for me, anyway.

 

[TargetAudience]

Kabal, kenshi, cyrax, sonnya and kl are fucked up.... if we remove this chars we would have the perfect balanced non-scrubby fighter.

 

[coolwhip]

Not to sound condescending but what does it say when people are STILL biting in this sort of thread for the 101012015105 time?

 

[SaJa]

If you don't want to deal with retarded shit here is your solution
Take a look at this list and ban the S+ and S tier. Then you will have your perfect game that you want so much.

Spoiler

Good shit ! I would be able to see all the cast in top 8 tournament (except those we've seen hundred time) ! Good idea ! :>

 

[Seapeople]

LBSH this is a matchup based game. (I don't know how any game with unique/diverse characters wouldn't be).
But the Kabal problem has more to do with the player than the character...how many people are winning majors with Kabal other than Reo? Reo is outplaying everyone. Until the top 8 starts being filled with Kabal there doesn't even need to be a discussion about banning him.

How does Kabal take away hype anyway? He plays at such a fast speed and has some of the highest execution in the game. Isn't that a little entertaining?

"A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about." -Sirlin
Banning Kabal would make the game and the community more scrubby. Lets just be happy with MK9 as it is...it's pretty swell already.

 

[GrandMasterson]

I thought Kabal went even with at least Reptile and Liu Kang.

And I say don't ban Kabal. Kabal isn't some invincibility glitch, he's a playable character in the game. Besides, after we ban Kabal, where does it end? What/who do we ban after that? MK9 has enough tournament rules already.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm tired of hearing how we should ban this and that. Obviously the invincibility glitch should have been banned, but then people brought up banning toasty boost, now Kabal (again). Enough already, just play the damn game.

To put my opinion into perspective, try being a hardcore MK player that lives on a remote Japanese island with a dial-up internet connection (you think your online experience is bad? You have no clue). I'm not exaggerating in the slightest when I say that I simply can't play this game at all anymore, despite how much I wish I could. MY SOUL IS IN CONSTANT PAIN, STOP WHINING ABOUT KABAL AND PLAY

 

[Death]

Ban kenshi too lol

 

[SaJa]

Kenshi is underused .. fortunetly. =P

 

[TargetAudience]

Bang and ban sonnya too!!!





Kratos is broken too btw.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

If Kabal does get banned, Kenshi has to be banned as well.

 

[REO]

Banning him will be biased against kabal players. It's a lil too late to ban kabal if you asked me.

No, it's not. Think about how fair everyone has treated Kabal players when it comes to tournaments... They know our character is fucked up and broken, but they smile and allow us to use him in tournaments. I think this would be a great way to treat the community back as Kabal players, think of it as a way of saying "thank you". I honestly didn't feel right being up on that stage on Dallas, I felt like I took away a possible win and achievement for someone else who deserved it way more than me. I had my time to shine already, it just really wasn't right IMO and killed all possible hype.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

This is a good post. I wouldn't mind if this community decided to ban Kabal at the end of the day. If you think about it, it really isn't fair to have only one character who does not have a single 5-5 match-up or weakness. I will also admit Kabal definitely is a hype killer as well.

What do you guys think about banning Kabal for NEC?

Nope

Kabal is fine

Banning characters makes our community look weak