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I need some opinions from the Community

Has NRS Gone SJW

  • Yes

    Votes: 25 21.7%
  • No

    Votes: 90 78.3%

  • Total voters
    115

Sablicious

Apprentice
Objectively speaking:
Yes -- on balance, NRS have, without much question, ceded to the so-called "SJW", political correctness precepts, and certainly have the applicable tenets inherent in their MK11 character design mantras.


Subjectively speaking:
Meh... Sperm in a tween cup. The affected characters look fine and dandy
(*physiognomical / facial designs notwithstanding), and half-naked females presented in a combat setting, are virgin titillation -- pure and simple. "Bikini Fighting Babes" already exists, as does the "Dead or Alive" franchise--for those who are sticklers for such 'penile pandering'. Reality check: the original get-ups / skins, or close approximations to, will invariable be in MK11[¹] -- i.e., keep your protruding, prepuce-less peckers in their pouches!).

Philosophically (a.k.a. controversially / 'triggeringly') speaking:
As a female, why bleat for "equality" if one is already actively seeking to destroy / forsake the very femininity that defines said sex as being "female"? If one wants to be a man, one should seek the applicable sexual reassignment surgery (such that the medical can provide). However, obtruding such ideologies upon others, will achieve nothing but a widening of the Male-Female / Mars-Venus schism that has underpinned the historical "inequality" extant from before time immemorial / the coronation of Richard I. Surely even a blind man woman can see the undeniable, in-your-face facts here...?

[¹]
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
A lot of people have, also have you read this thread? Not just talking about this site per se but YT, gaming sites TONS of SJW'S crying over "MK, DOA objectifying women blah, blah, blah" it's why NRS changed their outfits on women because people cried about it. I don't think it's lazy when it defines the character's personality. Like Mileena for example is a freak, wasn't surprised to see her dressed like she was in mk 9 and if you read the MK X comics you'd know what I'm talking about besides her free spirit personality she was rather slutty and used it to get to the top. You think she cares about dressing like a nun or very covered? I would say it's lazy if it was literally a g string and string top or whatever they're called but pretty sure the MK 9 outfits had designs to it, gold elements, chains, different colors, details etc.

Of course but you can also make them look badass by looking sexy without overdressing them too you know. You think Mileena fans want to see her dressed like Shadow Priest or like Jacqui? Yeah...good luck with that.

I am totally not disputing the improved animations as they improve with every game, the graphics, faces etc but notice as someone else pointed out nobody complained about this issue in the 90's when they were very skimpy looking outfits as well. But times have changed apparently, and not always for the better.
Where’s the evidence that they changed the outfits due to people crying about it? Is there an interview where someone from NRS specifically states that?

What people are saying in this thread is irrelevant. NRS has already made their design decisions so...?

I said “more often than not” it’s lazy. If the characters personality permits wearing less clothes, like Kano for example, it’s perfectly fine.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Where’s the evidence that they changed the outfits due to people crying about it? Is there an interview where someone from NRS specifically states that?

What people are saying in this thread is irrelevant. NRS has already made their design decisions so...?

I said “more often than not” it’s lazy. If the characters personality permits wearing less clothes, like Kano for example, it’s perfectly fine.
Evidence? Compare the MK 9 outfits to MK X, MK 11 outfits. There's your evidence, unless you believe in cosmic coincidence?

Well, again this is relative. Some may see it as "lazy" while others see it as stylishly sexy. I already brought up the double standard point on the men, yet you have nothing to say about that? I mean if we're covering up the women, only fair the men should be covered up as well. hmmm?
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Evidence? Compare the MK 9 outfits to MK X, MK 11 outfits. There's your evidence, unless you believe in cosmic coincidence?

Well, again this is relative. Some may see it as "lazy" while others see it as stylishly sexy. I already brought up the double standard point on the men, yet you have nothing to say about that? I mean if we're covering up the women, only fair the men should be covered up as well. hmmm?
That is not evidence. There’s zero evidence to suggest they based any design decision on “people” complaining about the women showing “too much skin”. Just because some of the outfits are different doesn’t mean it was some reactionary change.
 

ImperatrixSindel

Too bad YOU... will DIE!
nobody complained about this issue in the 90's when they were very skimpy looking outfits as well.
None of the 90s outfits, except for the one on Sheeva -- who was a stop-motion puppet and was in keeping with the designs for Goro and Kintaro -- were anywhere near as skimpy as anything in MK9 or even Deception/Armageddon. That's a ridiculous argument.

For example, here's a comparison of Mileena's designs:

MK2:


UMK3/Trilogy:


Deception/Armageddon:



MK9:


MKX:


Huh! Looks like MKX is actually lot closer to the sexiness level of the classic Trilogy-era games! Imagine that.

Those MK2 and UMK3 leotards were not very revealing and most of them were generally about as modest as Kitana, Tanya, and Mileena's outfits in MKX. MKX ladies have their legs more covered but show more cleavage and midriff generally than MK2/MK3. Kitana's new Dark Empress outfit for MK11 is about on the same level too.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
None of the 90s outfits, except for the one on Sheeva -- who was a stop-motion puppet and was in keeping with the designs for Goro and Kintaro -- were anywhere near as skimpy as anything in MK9 or even Deception/Armageddon. That's a ridiculous argument.

For example, here's a comparison of Mileena's designs:

MK2:


UMK3/Trilogy:


Deception/Armageddon:



MK9:


MKX:


Huh! Looks like MKX is actually lot closer to the sexiness level of the classic Trilogy-era games! Imagine that.

Those MK2 and UMK3 leotards were not very revealing and most of them were generally about as modest as Kitana, Tanya, and Mileena's outfits in MKX. MKX ladies have their legs more covered but show more cleavage and midriff generally than MK2/MK3. Kitana's new Dark Empress outfit for MK11 is about on the same level too.
UMK3 had the best character models and attire, imo. But I’m a little biased when it comes to UMK3, lol.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
None of the 90s outfits, except for the one on Sheeva -- who was a stop-motion puppet and was in keeping with the designs for Goro and Kintaro -- were anywhere near as skimpy as anything in MK9 or even Deception/Armageddon. That's a ridiculous argument.



Huh! Looks like MKX is actually lot closer to the sexiness level of the classic Trilogy-era games! Imagine that.

Those MK2 and UMK3 leotards were not very revealing and most of them were generally about as modest as Kitana, Tanya, and Mileena's outfits in MKX. MKX ladies have their legs more covered but show more cleavage and midriff generally than MK2/MK3. Kitana's new Dark Empress outfit for MK11 is about on the same level too.
Had to cut out that post due to the sites limit on images per post. Anyway, It's funny because I see cleavage in UMK3 as much as I see it in MK X and MK 9, the only difference is boob size(because women totally don't get implants now days or show off their bods) right? right...

I don't think it's ridiculous, what I find ridiculous are those complaining over something entirely fictional yet ignoring the men half dressed. Why's that? I notice everytime I ask this it gets ignored, so curious to see if anyone will actually address this lol.

BTW, Sheeva is still a female who's at least HALF human so what because she's half dragon she doesn't qualify in the women should be properly dressed movement?

MK3 Sheeva




MK9 Sheeva


Not seeing a huge difference in outfits here, especially MK 3 and MK 9's. So I guess Sheeva's the exception cause she's only half human? hmmm I'm seeing as much cleavage as I'm seeing on the female ninjas, assassins etc I'd also like to add that I don't think NRS uses the same body with differnet heads, Kitana looks curiver than D'Vorah in MK X and Sheeva has a different body than the other females obviously lol.


That is not evidence. There’s zero evidence to suggest they based any design decision on “people” complaining about the women showing “too much skin”. Just because some of the outfits are different doesn’t mean it was some reactionary change.
It's evidence since it's pretty obvious but here, if you wish I'll show you a lot more this guy breaks it down well. I suggest you read it.

You sound like you're in denial because tons of people have complained on twitter, social media, gaming sites about the females being "objectified" in MK 9 namely and thus NRS caved to the change having them vastly more dressed in MK X and MK 11. I can post more evidence and examples for you of people if you wish. I also recommend you look into this woman, who is literally known to the gaming industry to complain about so many games with women be it the way they're dressed or treated.....Anita Sarkeesian

https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2015/03/04/mortal-kombat-x-dead-or-alive-and-the-most-ridiculous-debate-in-gaming/#54daf96b26a6

Also, this article by OAG proves that people are clearly as passionate about women being covered more in video games as are the ones who want them barely dressed. Just read some of the tweets he refers to. I also have to point out, while I may not agree with everything he says he does have a point on the people who complain about objectifying women in games, degrading them etc why are these people so hung up on video games(fake women, fictional pixels) and yet have no issue with the many videos on pornhub and cosplayers? Because I guess those outfits, vids etc don't demean women at all right? I'm not talking about normal porn btw, but other more particular videos/themes out there...
https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2019/02/warner-bros-sjw-journalists-triggered-over-mortal-kombat-11-being-criticized-for-lack-of-sex-appeal/77378/
 
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ImperatrixSindel

Too bad YOU... will DIE!
Had to cut out that post due to the sites limit on images per post. Anyway, It's funny because I see cleavage in UMK3 as much as I see it in MK X and MK 9, the only difference is boob size(because women totally don't get implants now days or show off their bods) right? right...

I don't think it's ridiculous, what I find ridiculous are those complaining over something entirely fictional yet ignoring the men half dressed. Why's that? I notice everytime I ask this it gets ignored, so curious to see if anyone will actually address this lol.

BTW, Sheeva is still a female who's at least HALF human so what because she's half dragon she doesn't qualify in the women should be properly dressed movement?
If you can't see the difference between the more tasteful level of cleavage in UMK3 and MKX and a game like MK9, where essentially only nipples and vulva are covered, I don't know what to tell you. We should not be able to tell that Mileena waxes her pubes. Leave some mystery.

Yes, women get implants and show off their bodies, but typically not when they're fighting to the death in martial arts tournaments or actively serving in the military. And most of the characters we're discussing aren't even from earth -- it's goofy to imply the women of Edenia or Outworld should have big balloon silicone tits.

Half-dressed super muscular men in popular culture like superhero stories and video games are usually not being presented in a sexual manner, but rather as a vicarious power fantasy for male readers/players. It's a male fantasy either way, not a female fantasy. If the male characters are sexy, it's usually an afterthought rather than the purpose of their design (this has changed a bit in recent times, but not very much, as women and gay men are still seen as a niche market).There have been lots of very smart articles about this. Here's a good one, though sadly the images have been corrupted:
https://comicsalliance.com/why-big-superhero-muscles-arent-the-same-thing-as-sexy-curves/

I literally used Sheeva as an example of the only character who was dressed that skimpily in the Trilogy games. I think that with her character it makes more sense, as her entire Shokan culture -- Goro, Kintaro, and her -- is shown to wear very little clothing, in a sort of Conan the Barbarian aesthetic. But if anything I think her bikini in MK3 was goofy, as it wasn't barbarian-looking enough -- it just looked like an earth swimsuit. The Armageddon look was better, and if they brought her back I think something similar to Cheetah's attire in IJ2 would be neat.

while I may not agree with everything he says he does have a point on the people who complain about objectifying women in games, degrading them etc why are these people so hung up on video games(fake women, fictional pixels) and yet have no issue with the many videos on pornhub and cosplayers? Because I guess those outfits, vids etc don't demean women at all right? I'm not talking about normal porn btw, but other more particular videos/themes out there...
Amazingly, people are capable of caring about more than one thing at a time. I don't think any feminist believes the presentation of women in video games is the most pressing sexist issue in the world right now. But just because something isn't the most important issue doesn't mean it isn't worth addressing.

It's worth noting, though, that women who perform in porn or do cosplay are (usually) making that choice of their own volition, whereas these 'fake' women are being created by teams of almost entirely men and have no free will of their own; they exist purely as a projection of male desire. A critique of them is a critique of that impulse.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
If you can't see the difference between the more tasteful level of cleavage in UMK3 and MKX and a game like MK9, where essentially only nipples and vulva are covered, I don't know what to tell you. We should not be able to tell that Mileena waxes her pubes. Leave some mystery.

Yes, women get implants and show off their bodies, but typically not when they're fighting to the death in martial arts tournaments or actively serving in the military. And most of the characters we're discussing aren't even from earth -- it's goofy to imply the women of Edenia or Outworld should have big balloon silicone tits.

Half-dressed super muscular men in popular culture like superhero stories and video games are usually not being presented in a sexual manner, but rather as a vicarious power fantasy for male readers/players. It's a male fantasy either way, not a female fantasy. If the male characters are sexy, it's usually an afterthought rather than the purpose of their design (this has changed a bit in recent times, but not very much, as women and gay men are still seen as a niche market).There have been lots of very smart articles about this. Here's a good one, though sadly the images have been corrupted:
https://comicsalliance.com/why-big-superhero-muscles-arent-the-same-thing-as-sexy-curves/

I literally used Sheeva as an example of the only character who was dressed that skimpily in the Trilogy games. I think that with her character it makes more sense, as her entire Shokan culture -- Goro, Kintaro, and her -- is shown to wear very little clothing, in a sort of Conan the Barbarian aesthetic. But if anything I think her bikini in MK3 was goofy, as it wasn't barbarian-looking enough -- it just looked like an earth swimsuit. The Armageddon look was better, and if they brought her back I think something similar to Cheetah's attire in IJ2 would be neat.

Amazingly, people are capable of caring about more than one thing at a time. I don't think any feminist believes the presentation of women in video games is the most pressing sexist issue in the world right now. But just because something isn't the most important issue doesn't mean it isn't worth addressing.

It's worth noting, though, that women who perform in porn or do cosplay are (usually) making that choice of their own volition, whereas these 'fake' women are being created by teams of almost entirely men and have no free will of their own; they exist purely as a projection of male desire. A critique of them is a critique of that impulse.
I've honestly seen bikinis(real ones) more revealing than those MK 9 outfits, Mileena's would be the closest to showing nearly everything but the reason why I don't have issues with it? Simple :1. It fits her freaky, seductive character and 2. It's a video game. I don't care THAT much, there's real issues in the world to worry about but if you guys want to stress that, be my guest.

I think the whole tasteful skin/cleavage is relative, what one person may find tasteful another may find offensive. But again my biggest issue isn't so much those offended by women barely dressed in a video game(though I admit I'd rather worry about things actually more important like gameplay and making sure I got my money's worth) but what irks me more is the double standard. Here...





That's all opinion with the whole "men aren't as big a deal as curves" what? Who says? lol A human half naked or barely dressed is a human barely dressed man. Regardless of sexual preferences, Erron Black for example and Kano in MK X are practically shirtless, in fact they're showing more than any female in MK 9.
Jax in MK 2 IS literally half naked, pre bionic arms in spandex pants. But again no complaints, but a 3D render of Kitana or Jade in a sexy outfit and it's "OMG!!" Come on now lol. If you can't see the hypocrisy there I don't know what else to tell you.

See the thing you're forgetting is with the military is they are properly dressed now and the past couple of games, but it's MK. A fictional story that's not trying to be 100% realistic, you're playing a game with Gods, Demons, undead specters, metahumans, ninjas with magic powers, etc, etc and I want to point out you're not at all fazed by the over the top violence but a little bit of cleavage bothers you? I never understood this. Like a meme here


Humans also have culture to be barely dressed on certain occasions, I just think nobody is saying anything about Sheeva because she's only half human....because let's be honest, we don't know much about Shokan battle attire or attire in general. Most of them seem to be hardly dressed except for the older Shokan's and we haven't exactly seen many female ones aside from Sheeva.

Ok, so you're saying it's ok for women to demean themselves in real life is not a more important issue than professional game developers, artists etc creating a FAKE female characters barely dressed?I also want to point out porn doesn't exist exclusively for male desires but women as well we're all human afterall AND it's a business, porn industry brings in billions...so I can assure you that's the main reason lol. I would say most games or lot of games that create women to be sexually attractive looking, hardly dressed whatever do so for two main reasons. One it helps bring in money if the women are more attractive and look like women and two, most games in general but games like this especially, DOA, etc, etc have a much larger male demographic so this isn't really surprising. Here's my issue with the Sheeva's race dress like that argument is fine, but not Edenians. Technically if we're going there, then you know Edenians aren't human either so perhaps it's their traditions to dress skimpy, exotic as well? Who's to say, I mean look at Rain. He's a dude and dressed not exactly like a monk or military marine. His shirt is pretty open, showing a good portion of his chest and his arms.

Bugt back on the demographic thing, Think of it like a Disney movie, they want to appeal to the whole family and kids so it'll be rated PG. Now if they wanted to aim for adults it would be a hard R.it If they made an animated movie or you saw say Toy Story 4 rated R because Woody bangs bo peep, they'd lose money because kids can't enjoy it. MK is rated M afterall, so it's not like you don't know what you're buying. I just don't get why people are so sensitive to how women are dressed yet ignore the over the top violence as being ok not to mention the male characters barely dressed? To me this makes no sense, if those people are so worried about how women are treated and have such a high moral compass then why are they ok with them getting killed horribly? Because they're better dressed makes it ok?

Of course worrying about various things is fine, but to me most of these things come off as trivial and/or hypocritical. Like I said earlier, me personally I'm more concerned about having a solid, fun game with these characters I grew up loving both personality wise and look wise. I don't really care for anyone's political view when making these games or trying to be PC or politicize a character just to try to please naysayers.
 
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Pterodactyl

Plus on block.
I agree NRS's female models in MKX and IJ2 were very weirdly skinny. The MK11 ones look better to me on that score -- Jade in particular looks sturdy, though Sonya still is too skinny. But I'd like to see more body diversity with the female NRS characters in general. SFV has women with all kinds of body types: Ibuki is petite, Karin is slender, Juri is lithe, Laura is an hourglass bombshell, Mika is a muscular bodybuilder, Kolin has prominent hips, et cetera. All the female NRS characters usually look like headswaps on the same body.

Still a little salty about MK9 Sheeva being so lanky, personally.

She looked terrifyingly stacked in MKA, like she could actually rip all of the skin from your body in one pull



If, through the graces of the Elder Gods and the mercy of Boon’s brows, she returns as DLC, I hope she gets that muscle mass back and truly looks like the she-monster she actually is.


Also, man I forgot how ridiculous that MKA outfit was, that’s worse than anything in 9 lmao, the damn metal nipples
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
It's evidence since it's pretty obvious but here, if you wish I'll show you a lot more this guy breaks it down well. I suggest you read it.

You sound like you're in denial because tons of people have complained on twitter, social media, gaming sites about the females being "objectified" in MK 9 namely and thus NRS caved to the change having them vastly more dressed in MK X and MK 11. I can post more evidence and examples for you of people if you wish. I also recommend you look into this woman, who is literally known to the gaming industry to complain about so many games with women be it the way they're dressed or treated.....Anita Sarkeesian
You either don’t seem to understand, or are purposely trying not to. There’s no evidence to suggest that NRS or WB cared about any complaints enough to make a “change”. Correlation does not equal causation. Them going a different route with the character designs doesn’t mean it was a reactionary measure to ANYTHING. You’re asserting the cause when there’s absolutely zero proof to back up your claims. And NO, showing how the women in previous games were dressed compared to MK11 is not evidence of that claim. The only thing it’s evidence of is that some of the characters in MK11, for the most part, are different from previous iterations. You cannot then assert a reason for why that is without evidence to justify that assertion.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
You either don’t seem to understand, or are purposely trying not to. There’s no evidence to suggest that NRS or WB cared about any complaints enough to make a “change”. Correlation does not equal causation. Them going a different route with the character designs doesn’t mean it was a reactionary measure to ANYTHING. You’re asserting the cause when there’s absolutely zero proof to back up your claims. And NO, showing how the women in previous games were dressed compared to MK11 is not evidence of that claim. The only thing it’s evidence of is that some of the characters in MK11, for the most part, are different from previous iterations. You cannot then assert a reason for why that is without evidence to justify that assertion.
I do but I don't think you're understanding me. You're just denying everything I tell you, I've posted links proving my point you're just not accepting it. I can't help you there. You also totally ignored my question regarding the double standard with male characters vs female characters, which proves to me you have no argument otherwise you'd address itBut anyone and everyone deep down knows that NRS clearly caved to more dressed designs on the MK females, the proof is in the pics. Just look at the MK 9 pics vs. MK X, MK 11 pics. It's pretty damn obvious actually. How is there zero proof when I just showed you proof? lol You can believe or deny whatever you want dude, I've made my point. It's obviously you don't agree with it. I don't have to justify something that's blatant fact. It's like the sky is blue, someone asks me "why is the sky blue, what makes you say the sky is blue" ummm because it is?
 
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Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
I do but I don't think you're understanding me. You're just denying everything I tell you, I've posted links proving my point you're just not accepting it. I can't help you there. You also totally ignored my question regarding the double standard with male characters vs female characters, which proves to me you have no argument otherwise you'd address itBut anyone and everyone deep down knows that NRS clearly caved to more dressed designs on the MK females, the proof is in the pics. Just look at the MK 9 pics vs. MK X, MK 11 pics. It's pretty damn obvious actually. How is there zero proof when I just showed you proof? lol You can believe or deny whatever you want dude, I've made my point. It's obviously you don't agree with it. I don't have to justify something that's blatant fact. It's like the sky is blue, someone asks me "why is the sky blue, what makes you say the sky is blue" ummm because it is?
Clearly you don’t understand at all. Calling something a “fact” doesn’t make it a fact. You use the word “believe” when that’s precisely what you’re choosing to do. You’re choosing to believe that they made a reactionary decision. It’s what you want to believe. So no, I don’t care for your confirmation bias, because it is irrelevant to the actual facts. You can’t make an assertion without justifaction, then when asked for that justification you act as if it’s just an axiom. Sorry, you can’t make baseless claims and expect people to just go along with it.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Clearly you don’t understand at all. Calling something a “fact” doesn’t make it a fact. You use the word “believe” when that’s precisely what you’re choosing to do. You’re choosing to believe that they made a reactionary decision. It’s what you want to believe. So no, I don’t care for your confirmation bias, because it is irrelevant to the actual facts. You can’t make an assertion without justifaction, then when asked for that justification you act as if it’s just an axiom. Sorry, you can’t make baseless claims and expect people to just go along with it.
I understand more than you do apparently. Fact is what's right in front of your face guy. And I see you continue to ignore my other point, good job. It only proves my case further. I can when it's in proper context. I just literally gave you proof and you completely ignored the cases, arguments AGAINST your argument on behalf of others since you think "nobody complained about MK 9's designs" at first I thought you were trying to troll me but now I honestly believe you believe that...my bias? lol, says the guy who ignores my question and denies the facts. Ok.

Ok, you want to deny others having issues with NRS designs in MK 9 then making that drastic change(as numerous people here have pointed out even those who feel the same way you do about this issue) be my guest, but you can't deny the fact that MK 9's designs clearly showed the females less covered compared to MK X and MK 11 outfits....to deny this is baseless and just ridiculous.

It's not baseless when it's fact, so let me know when you're ready to answer my other question with double standards or we may as well agree to disagree since we're clearly not on the same page.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
I love it when people who don't agree with you prefer to ignore your argument and counter with an emotional response instead of "you don't understand" lol:rolleyes:
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Links to "alt right" the new made up term apparently? @Vslayer I see what you mean about the typical of SJW and lefty response, I should know better by now lol.

This is rather amusing now.