Guide "I Love My Job" -- Deathstroke General Discussion Thread

[RYX]

Mikman360 It won't be even or anything because it won't just by design of these characters (and Batgirl being broken) but being able to oki would be huge IMO

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Because if you're hitting it deep, your goal is not to confuse them with the jump in, but the follow up B1 or B2.

Most of DS' worthwhile normals hit overhead/mid/low anyways (B2/B1/3). Just go for B1U2 more. A normal B1U2 combo does 1% less than a 132 combo. Use Ji1, 1 for things you KNOW you will hit (like a whiffed slide from KF or Batman).

JI1 into 1 was just an example. If it gets stuffed why would you think a slower normal (B1) wouldn't?

As for my use of JI1 it's only in situations where I'm going for an ambiguous and uncertain about the side it will hit on. Because the input is neutral.

EDIT: In any case, this problem is exclusive to online. I'm not going to change my offline playstyle to adapt to an online environment. I've made that mistake already in MK9.

 

[Mikman360]

JI1 into 1 was just an example. If it gets stuffed why would you think a slower normal (B1) wouldn't?

As for my use of JI1 it's only in situations where I'm going for an ambiguous and uncertain about the side it will hit on. Because the input is neutral.

EDIT: In any case, this problem is exclusive to online. I'm not going to change my offline playstyle to adapt to an online environment. I've made that mistake already in MK9.

Well that depends on why its getting stuffed. If it's getting stuffed because you are whiffing it (since 1 hits high), then you wont have that problem with B1 or B2. Opponents can block the Ji1 standing, the crouch to make the 1 whiff, and punish you. If it's getting stuffed because you are late with your input, then yes, this will continue to be an issue even with other moves.

Also on a completely unrelated note, but I think DS was stealth buffed sometime. In the past, hitting with 323 on an opponent too high would make them impossible to combo after it. This isn't the case anymore from what I've noticed. I can hit with 323 as high as I want and still finish the combo.

 

[Crathen]

Alright remember the reversing wakeup corner tech?Here's how to set up a 50/50 from it into another possible 50/50 , here i use the most advantageous SF ender but you can do this from 12xxflip enders if the gravity isn't scaled too much , the fake crossup jump also can make whiff some wakeups like Zods Phantom Strike.

I'm experimenting with another weird setup from 23xxFlip ender in the corner , if i find something good and reliable enough i'll post it , soon imma be starting to fill the stage breakdown thread too.

 

[RYX]

Alright remember the reversing wakeup corner tech?Here's how to set up a 50/50 from it into another possible 50/50 , here i use the most advantageous SF ender but you can do this from 12xxflip enders if the gravity isn't scaled too much , the fake crossup jump also can make whiff some wakeups like Zods Phantom Strike.

I'm experimenting with another weird setup from 23xxFlip ender in the corner , if i find something good and reliable enough i'll post it , soon imma be starting to fill the stage breakdown thread too.

Good shit man, I'm definitely falling behind on my DS tech, but even as a low tier main (again, lol) I still love my job.

I really think his interact game is underrated. We have some nasty resets for surprisingly good damage

 

[Crathen]

Good shit man, I'm definitely falling behind on my DS tech, but even as a low tier main (again, lol) I still love my job.

I really think his interact game is underrated. We have some nasty resets for surprisingly good damage

There's definately still a lot of potential with the bombs interactables , some gimmicky and some realiable ones ( as an example , corner b1u2 f3 d2 j2 23xxSF jump over them place bomb and even the faster wakeups will trade with the bomb explosion ).

Most DS i've seen still go for basic gameplans and do not fully grasp how this character has to develop , hell i never see standing 1 fakes when zoning with gunshots ever and that's super basic , maybe that's why i consider Deathstroke one of the most fun characters while others see him as a straight boring one , when you start adding all the pieces of tech and mindgames he's so dirty.

 

[Mikman360]

Alright remember the reversing wakeup corner tech?Here's how to set up a 50/50 from it into another possible 50/50 , here i use the most advantageous SF ender but you can do this from 12xxflip enders if the gravity isn't scaled too much , the fake crossup jump also can make whiff some wakeups like Zods Phantom Strike.

I'm experimenting with another weird setup from 23xxFlip ender in the corner , if i find something good and reliable enough i'll post it , soon imma be starting to fill the stage breakdown thread too.

Have you tried defending from these yourself? Because there's a little problem I see (or I think I see).

The corner reversing wakeups tech is actually not a mixup at all. Holding forwards as you get up will make the character walk under DS, and block the NJ2.

However, it seems with this HUGE advantage you are getting off of SF, they have no time to walk at all. But the problem here is by getting Ji2 so close to the ground RIGHT when they get up, you are making yourself vulnerable to actually getting hit by the wakeups, even if they are reversed.

So the opponent can basically just wake up when you do this. It wouldn't matter to them if they got reversed or not, since they're gonna hit you out of your NJ2.

But do bear in mind that a Ji2 on block is a free mixup at least.

 

[Crathen]

Have you tried defending from these yourself? Because there's a little problem I see (or I think I see).

The corner reversing wakeups tech is actually not a mixup at all. Holding forwards as you get up will make the character walk under DS, and block the NJ2.

However, it seems with this HUGE advantage you are getting off of SF, they have no time to walk at all. But the problem here is by getting Ji2 so close to the ground RIGHT when they get up, you are making yourself vulnerable to actually getting hit by the wakeups, even if they are reversed.

So the opponent can basically just wake up when you do this. It wouldn't matter to them if they got reversed or not, since they're gonna hit you out of your NJ2.

But do bear in mind that a Ji2 on block is a free mixup at least.

Of course i do test them , i think you didn't notice the slight walk back when i do the fake crossup it's barely noticeable and you can do it even faster so it's very ambigous , that way even if they hold forward they'll get hit.

Naturally this doesn't reverse wakeups but just the threat of having to reverse their wakeup is good enough ( and yes , characters that have dd or autocorrecting wakeups can screw this up ) , it also evades some wakeups ( Phantom strike , Sword Spin , Acid Flower ) when delayed enough.

There is a hole obviously and that's dashing forward , and it'll evade both versions of this , that's why you mix it up with MB f3 , crossup f3 or simply baiting them.

This kind of SF setups also allows for safejumps on characters with 15+ frames wakeups ( also possible midscreen ).

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

There's definately still a lot of potential with the bombs interactables , some gimmicky and some realiable ones ( as an example , corner b1u2 f3 d2 j2 23xxSF jump over them place bomb and even the faster wakeups will trade with the bomb explosion ).

Most DS i've seen still go for basic gameplans and do not fully grasp how this character has to develop , hell i never see standing 1 fakes when zoning with gunshots ever and that's super basic , maybe that's why i consider Deathstroke one of the most fun characters while others see him as a straight boring one , when you start adding all the pieces of tech and mindgames he's so dirty.

I've always thought that I was the only one doing St1 fake-outs especially against teleporters. Sometimes I'd even go for the full 132.

 

[Mikman360]

Of course i do test them , i think you didn't notice the slight walk back when i do the fake crossup it's barely noticeable and you can do it even faster so it's very ambigous , that way even if they hold forward they'll get hit.

Naturally this doesn't reverse wakeups but just the threat of having to reverse their wakeup is good enough ( and yes , characters that have dd or autocorrecting wakeups can screw this up ) , it also evades some wakeups ( Phantom strike , Sword Spin , Acid Flower ) when delayed enough.

There is a hole obviously and that's dashing forward , and it'll evade both versions of this , that's why you mix it up with MB f3 , crossup f3 or simply baiting them.

This kind of SF setups also allows for safejumps on characters with 15+ frames wakeups ( also possible midscreen ).

Okay, I kinda see what you're getting at now. So long as I'm not getting hit by wakeups when I try to reverse them, its fine. I did not notice the small backstep you did though. Mind posting a little breakdown of each scenario for future references (even though I think I've got it)?

If this can be done off of any 23 xx Flip ender, this could be really good.

 

[Crathen]

Okay, I kinda see what you're getting at now. So long as I'm not getting hit by wakeups when I try to reverse them, its fine. I did not notice the small backstep you did though. Mind posting a little breakdown of each scenario for future references (even though I think I've got it)?

If this can be done off of any 23 xx Flip ender, this could be really good.

I'll try to give better explanations next time haha i'm just lazy.

You can set this up from 12xxSF / d2xxSF enders too ( this is always only in the corner ) if the gravity isn't too high , 23xxFlip enders always have enough advantage when done from the right setups ( wich most of the time is starter -> d2 j2 23xxSF ).

Enuma Elish i used to 132 but whiffing all of that is bad , st 1 is enough to trick them into moving with a dash or use some kind of risky move as teleports , i always try to st1 after quickfire / lgs on hit to get them impatient.

st1 duration is 21 frames
d1 duration is 24 frames

Useful to mess up their timing

 

[ryublaze]

Nothing against your setup, but doesn't the fact that you can see the walkback tell the opponent which way to block?

 

[Mikman360]

I'll try to give better explanations next time haha i'm just lazy.

You can set this up from 12xxSF / d2xxSF enders too ( this is always only in the corner ) if the gravity isn't too high , 23xxFlip enders always have enough advantage when done from the right setups ( wich most of the time is starter -> d2 j2 23xxSF ).

You're saying that 12 Flip and D2 Flip works unconditionally, but 23 Flip needs a specific combo setup to work? I was always under the impression that 23 gave the highest knockup before the Flip.

 

[G4S Silent Jay]

So.... Somehow I was getting D1xxFullcombo'd out of J3xxAny Follow-Up tonight.... Dafuq is up with that? And I know it wasn't jacked timing because I'd put in B1U2 or B23F2 as soon as ji3 connected on block....

 

[RM Jonnitti]

it looks like you would be able to meaty this setup since you have 300 years to jump and do nonsense. i wouldnt be surprised if you can use ji1 to stuff out some wakeups since it has 8 billion active frames. would be worth testing out

 

[Mikman360]

So.... Somehow I was getting D1xxFullcombo'd out of J3xxAny Follow-Up tonight.... Dafuq is up with that? And I know it wasn't jacked timing because I'd put in B1U2 or B23F2 as soon as ji3 connected on block....

I don't like Ji3 on block since it doesnt cancel into ground normals. You have to hit with it relatively close to the ground. If you hit with it really high in the air (easy to do since its got a huge hitbox), then you lose a lot of your blockstun advantage.

 

[Mikman360]

There's definately still a lot of potential with the bombs interactables , some gimmicky and some realiable ones ( as an example , corner b1u2 f3 d2 j2 23xxSF jump over them place bomb and even the faster wakeups will trade with the bomb explosion ).

Mind making a video of this? I really want to see it. It could be rather delicious. I've tried it, but I can't seem to get the opponent to blow up before they wakeup away from the bomb.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

so all the fool DS players that said M2dave would get blown up my DS and DS is still good...

lol what happened? u all got bodied in pigs online thing

 

[Vagrant]

so all the fool DS players that said M2dave would get blown up my DS and DS is still good...

Can you do me a favor and quote whoever said that? Because I've yet to see anyone say they would blow m2dave up in a match.

I also am concerned that you think whether or not a select number of DS players beat a single player in a single matchup, in a single ft5, is an accurate measurement of how good a character is.

 

[NYCj360]

Alright remember the reversing wakeup corner tech?Here's how to set up a 50/50 from it into another possible 50/50 , here i use the most advantageous SF ender but you can do this from 12xxflip enders if the gravity isn't scaled too much , the fake crossup jump also can make whiff some wakeups like Zods Phantom Strike.

I'm experimenting with another weird setup from 23xxFlip ender in the corner , if i find something good and reliable enough i'll post it , soon imma be starting to fill the stage breakdown thread too.

He has the same setup mid screen off of a timed sword flip. It is in the shitty video i posted here at 4:36

 

[Crathen]

He has the same setup mid screen off of a timed sword flip. It is in the shitty video i posted here at 4:36

There's a difference , the midscreen setup doesn't allow you to choose between crossup or fake crossup ,it'll always be the same side unless they wakeup with some advancing move , this one instead you can choose if you're going to crossup or not while still avoiding / punishing a good amount of wakeups and it also reverses the wakeup inputs if you're going for the crossup one.

And lbsh i'd rather take the full damage of 132 instead of going for that , it's just too much damage left off the table , but if we can find one that doesn't lose too much damage i could see it useful in a good amount of MU , i have to mess with that.

 

[Mikman360]

I would just like to mention that the Sword Flip standover thingy can be a 50/50, but not as a result of a crossup. If you NJ2, you can secure a free 50/50 off of B1/B2.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

Can you do me a favor and quote whoever said that? Because I've yet to see anyone say they would blow m2dave up in a match.

I also am concerned that you think whether or not a select number of DS players beat a single player in a single matchup, in a single ft5, is an accurate measurement of how good a character is.

its a first to 20 man... i agree first to 5 means little

 

[Vagrant]

its a first to 20 man... i agree first to 5 means little

The one against wound was first to 20

1 DS player played 1st to 20 against Dave. the rest all did ft5s . Check the thread.

Even so, it's still one matchup, and one set. It doesn't say enough about the character overall to draw much conclusion

 

[NYCj360]

There's a difference , the midscreen setup doesn't allow you to choose between crossup or fake crossup ,it'll always be the same side unless they wakeup with some advancing move , this one instead you can choose if you're going to crossup or not while still avoiding / punishing a good amount of wakeups and it also reverses the wakeup inputs if you're going for the crossup one.

And lbsh i'd rather take the full damage of 132 instead of going for that , it's just too much damage left off the table , but if we can find one that doesn't lose too much damage i could see it useful in a good amount of MU , i have to mess with that.

Oh i completely agree lmao. Its terribly shitty but i was just throwing it out there, although i do use it sometimes to setup a meaty. The corner one is superior and most of the cast has a way to duplicate this setup.

BTW Green lantern is completely fucked by this.