Hot Take: Third variations will have little to no effect on the meta

[elephantvision]

Well, I think having the thought of "one variation is best and that's it" is definitely the wrong way to approach this. As someone stated above, it's about finding a tool kit that YOU LIKE and YOU ENJOY playing. Nothing else. Kotal Kahn suppose to be one of the "worst characters" in the game however, TONS of people play him and currently BOTH of his variations are viable for what he does.

Of course a 3rd variation will change the meta. Getting zoned out and your character struggles with rushing in? Maybe they added something new for you...
For example: Dvorah can now FLY and setup 50/50 traps. Sure, I don't think it's going to be better than Buzzed but if YOU like the idea of having fly as an escape or rushdown tool.... then her 3rd variation just might be for you!

MORE variations will NEVER be a problem and I hope we NEVER go back to "single variation" characters. Also, if there is ANYTHING we (should have) learned about fighting games now is you can't ever count anything out! Dude was running a tourney the other day as Kollector. Shao has made it far. Tweedy did some work with Frost.

One variation can be better or worse than the others but YOU can still lose to all three variations, and that's the way the cookie crumbles!

 

[Evil Canadian]

some variations will be good and become the new standard
some varaitions won't be good and won't be used much

I figgered it out im a fgc genius like and subscribe

 

[M2Dave]

Well, I think having the thought of "one variation is best and that's it" is definitely the wrong way to approach this.

It is, however, the right approach for anyone who is interested in winning.

As someone stated above, it's about finding a tool kit that YOU LIKE and YOU ENJOY playing.

Nobody likes or enjoys bad variations because nobody likes or enjoys losing.

Nothing else. Kotal Kahn suppose to be one of the "worst characters" in the game however, TONS of people play him and currently BOTH of his variations are viable for what he does.

Tons of people who play him, which includes Rooflemonger who is the loudest voice, also constantly complain about how bad of a character he is. I cannot blame them, though. Kotal Kahn is a character without a mid attack in fighting game that revolves around strike and throw. Even if you consider the mid command throw, look at what New Era Geras can do.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

I fully believe 3rd variations will change the meta and make many characters stronger that struggled before.

Kotal has multiple torems that are faster and a restands along with better zoning and let's not forget his better lightbeem.

Kano has Snake bite which gives him a launcher off everything. There is no possibility that he sucks after this. On top of that he gets a fast mid projectile.

Kitana is monumentally stronger from her changes and 3rd variation.

Kollector has WQT which is an amazing projectile that gives him high damage combos and even restands. He can outzone many he couldn't before and his wiffing issues involving bola are fixed with WQT. I see him shooting up the tier list.

Lao, Liu, Jacqui, Jax all look like they benefit from their variation and slight changes to the moves.
As we can see Sub Zeros moves have been changed to be faster startup on the 3rd Variation specials. He will have better staggers, pressure, mix, corner pressure, reward and even setplay and anti WU utility when his 3V drops.

Jacqui will be pushing broke with fullscreen combos into 50%.

But these people had good points:

I feel like the Meta of a game changes over time naturally anyways. Adding some new variations could potentially give characters new answers to the current meta, which would then force a shift. So yeah, I think it'll change the meta. Probably not going to turn the game on it's head or anything, but it'll have an impact for sure.

Way too soon to say anything about the 3rd variations imo

We also haven´t seen the patch notes yet which could also bring other changes to moves that could probably change how a character plays in certain situations. Frame data changes can also make a huge effect, another points we have no clue about yet

Nor does It have to. The idea Is to give another option to play with your favorite character in a way that better suits your playstyle, and possibly a way to deal with specific matchups. Metagame is another discussion.

 

[skcuf]

In MKX I played Kotal Kahn, Kano, and Reptile. Reptile's variations were basically all the same so I would go back and forth with them fairly often as they each had their own pros and cons. Nimble seemed to be the easiest to win with because of the massive combo potential. With the other two I primarily used red and yellow versions with a dabble in blue. A lot of people preferred the blue versions because of the extra range offered by the weapons, but I liked the yellow for command grabs and red for the different play styles.

In MK11 I don't enjoy playing Kano or Kotal so I've been bouncing between characters. I will say that the two variations for those characters play very differently and give the characters different areas of 'viability,' as far as those characters can be called viable. The different variations that I've seen only add to this variety and will change those characters.

 

[Metzos]

I understand your point, but I am arguing against the principles of the variation system. You do not need to know any specifics to understand that the variation system is flawed. Even if a character's third variation is really strong because of buffed properties, the third variation will merely replace the other two.



If revelance is required to have an opinion, who are you and why should your opinion matter to me?

Tbh with you if it were up to me, there wouldnt be any variation system in MK11. Yeah that will be the case as well. It was the same in MKX as well.

 

[santanabar]

Variations won't change any meta. Jump kicks and hit or throw guess (current meta) won't be affected at all.

Unless they change jump kicks being plus on block, and throw damage, why would people change their gameplan? That's why I am more interested in a patch rather than new variations, but after watching last kombat kast I have zero hopes in seeing changes at least I would be interested in.

 

[xKMMx]

I don't know or care honestly I'm just glad something is changing to make the game a little fresher for a while.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

I know a lot of people tend to lean competitive here but even on a casual level this isn’t going to do shit for us because I’m going to see a new variation I want to try out for a character I haven’t wanted to play before, I’m gonna start up some matches with a friend, I’m going to have to do the same brutality or two over and over again because I don’t have the rest unlocked, and then I’m going to go right the fuck back to Samurai Shodown again because grinding towers in this game can s my dick.

 

[theotherguy]

It is, however, the right approach for anyone who is interested in winning.

Nobody likes or enjoys bad variations because nobody likes or enjoys losing.

But can't the same be said for a normal no variation character? If someone wants to win then they'll choose the top tier. It doesn't matter how much someone likes a character, if they want to win then they'll choose the option which gives the best chance.

 

[FreshFromTheDeli]

I don't know and to be honest I don't care. All I know is Kotal Kahn is still gonna be poopy.

 

[BarakaTile]

It is, however, the right approach for anyone who is interested in winning.

Nobody likes or enjoys bad variations because nobody likes or enjoys losing.

When you say nobody you oughta clarify by saying "Nobody in the tourney scene"

Because not everyone who plays fighting games is a slave to the "PICK A TOP TIER" mindset you guys find yourself in.

For instance I'd play Baraka in KL and KOTH but I cannot stand his two official variations when his unofficial Warrior (Gutted+Spine Burst) and Savage (Leg Kabob+Blood Lunge) variation were way more fun in the beta. Yeah the variations Baraka has are good but for me they aren't fun and If I'm not having fun playing this game why even play it?

 

[M2Dave]

When you say nobody you oughta clarify by saying "Nobody in the tourney scene"

Because not everyone who plays fighting games is a slave to the "PICK A TOP TIER" mindset you guys find yourself in.

For instance I'd play Baraka in KL and KOTH but I cannot stand his two official variations when his unofficial Warrior (Gutted+Spine Burst) and Savage (Leg Kabob+Blood Lunge) variation were way more fun in the beta. Yeah the variations Baraka has are good but for me they aren't fun and If I'm not having fun playing this game why even play it?

You are not going to have fun if the variation is bad and you keep losing. I have been playing fighting games casually and competitively for almost two decades and I have yet to meet someone who has fun while losing.

A variation does not necessarily need to be top tier, but it does need to serve a purpose and most variations in this game do not. My main character is Shang Tsung and Spellmaster currently serves no purpose. Even characters who have worthy secondary variations such as New Era Geras and Searing Rage Scorpion to name a couple, they are rarely used in competitive matches.

 

[kcd117]

I fully believe 3rd variations will change the meta and make many characters stronger that struggled before.

Kotal has multiple torems that are faster and a restands along with better zoning and let's not forget his better lightbeem.

Kano has Snake bite which gives him a launcher off everything. There is no possibility that he sucks after this. On top of that he gets a fast mid projectile.

Kitana is monumentally stronger from her changes and 3rd variation.

Kollector has WQT which is an amazing projectile that gives him high damage combos and even restands. He can outzone many he couldn't before and his wiffing issues involving bola are fixed with WQT. I see him shooting up the tier list.

Lao, Liu, Jacqui, Jax all look like they benefit from their variation and slight changes to the moves.
As we can see Sub Zeros moves have been changed to be faster startup on the 3rd Variation specials. He will have better staggers, pressure, mix, corner pressure, reward and even setplay and anti WU utility when his 3V drops.

Jacqui will be pushing broke with fullscreen combos into 50%.

But these people had good points:

Snake bite and laser beam won’t make him play MK11 tho. Lbsh we can’t name character that is decent at this game that doesn’t have a strong strike/throw game. As long as his 112 is not cancelable for him to actually punish stuff and use it as a safe hit confirm and he doesn’t have a single safe mid threat to keep people from abusing him he’ll be the worst character in the game bc he simply doesn’t play the game. Also, he is the worst character in the game at contesting jump ins by a mile so he basically takes free pressure from 70% of the cast in the current jump galore

 

[cavemold]

Kollector looks promising.

 

[Slips]

Lol wow the old men and Crimson still at it. Some things on TYM don't change.

I think a big take away from the Kombat Kast is they said they've taken the time to adjust the moves in the new variations. We have no idea what property changes might occur. Scorp's Misery Blade apparently takes a bar of meter to cancel now which, as a Scorp player, was dis-heartening to hear. But maybe there will be another adjustment to make one of the MB options safe? Maybe some property changes to the old variations too? I'm excited to see what they've come up with.

The variation system in MKX started off to be pretty polarizing, but I think in the end there were at least 2 tournament-viable options for most characters. I still wish we could choose our moves as that would've been the more progressive step from MKX to Injustice 2 to MK11, but I theorize NRS will be dropping the 2 year cycle so they are milking this as long as possible. Maybe next year lol.

 

[Gamer68]

some variations will be good and become the new standard
some varaitions won't be good and won't be used much

I figgered it out im a fgc genius like and subscribe

Yep, some will be good, some will be bad.

Anyway I don't really care. I see they are adding Misery Blade for Scorpion, Ice Orb for Sub-Zero, Spiritual Guidance for Kung Lao, the ninja moves for Shang Tsung, the chakram for Kollector, etc, which were pretty much all the moves that look fun and cool from the betas and previews the game had. About time.

So even if all of them are bad, characters just got a little more fun and that's a good thing in my opinion. Couldn't really care less about the meta at this point because it got stale quickly (in my opinion), and this is a step in the right direction to make things more fun and more options overall.

 

[grandabx]

I've already stated it before. It doesn't matter how many variations you make, you're never going to satisfy everyone. Also, players will always gravitate towards the best one. You don't have that problem with one available version.

Better to make complete characters and cal it a day.

If a game like Tekken can have 40 moves, why can't MK have like 10-12?

What's the point of limiting player expression? Shit doesn't make any sense when you can tweak everything to your needs.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Snake bite and laser beam won’t make him play MK11 tho. Lbsh we can’t name character that is decent at this game that doesn’t have a strong strike/throw game. As long as his 112 is not cancelable for him to actually punish stuff and use it as a safe hit confirm and he doesn’t have a single safe mid threat to keep people from abusing him he’ll be the worst character in the game bc he simply doesn’t play the game. Also, he is the worst character in the game at contesting jump ins by a mile so he basically takes free pressure from 70% of the cast in the current jump galore

Im not the only one who thinks kanos 3rd will make him good. Biohazard and Mustard think so too. In fact Bio said if he just had Snake bite he would be good.
Mustard and Bio both did breakdowns of how good SnakeBite is for Kano.
The biggest problem he has is high risk/low reward (D1xxKanoBall) and his options being OSed but with SB both of those problems go away.
I guess we will see.

 

[grandabx]

Lol wow the old men and Crimson still at it. Some things on TYM don't change.

I think a big take away from the Kombat Kast is they said they've taken the time to adjust the moves in the new variations. We have no idea what property changes might occur. Scorp's Misery Blade apparently takes a bar of meter to cancel now which, as a Scorp player, was dis-heartening. But maybe there will be another adjustment to make one of the MB options safe? Maybe some property changes to the old variations too? I'm excited to see what they've come up with.

The variation system in MKX started off to be pretty polarizing, but I think in the end there were at least 2 tournament-viable options for most characters. I still wish we could choose our moves as that would've been the more progressive step from MKX to Injustice 2 to MK11, but I theorize NRS will be dropping to 2 year cycle so they are milking this as long as possible. Maybe next year lol.

How are they going to milk a game if the majority stop playing? We get to Evo America 2020 and MK11 is sub-500 entrants because of stubbornness and partial-ignorance.

 

[Slips]

How are they going to milk a game if the majority stop playing? We get to Evo America 2020 and MK11 is sub-500 entrants because of stubbornness and partial-ignorance.

That is the risk they've decided to take.

 

[FreshFromTheDeli]

Just an FYI that Shang's corpse drop is a base move. Unless they're changing the inputs for any of the ninja morphs, none of them should conflict with it.

Just an FYI that they specifically stated that Shang Tsung loses Corpse Drop and Soul Steal to acquire all the ninja moves.

Warlock will still be a better variation.

 

[HaHaSoGood]

Another millennial who thinks you are only allowed to have an opinion if it agrees with them. His post was discussion generating not blind hate like yours.

R u and m2dave butt buddies? Like a human caterpillar situation? Because it’s honestly hard to speak to one of you without the other raising it’s head like a fucking wart

 

[HaHaSoGood]

I understand your point, but I am arguing against the principles of the variation system. You do not need to know any specifics to understand that the variation system is flawed. Even if a character's third variation is really strong because of buffed properties, the third variation will merely replace the other two.



If revelance is required to have an opinion, who are you and why should your opinion matter to me?

I’m the random that is apparently relevant enough for your thirsty ass to quote me

Aren’t you the one that said deathstoke was terrible among other completely awful rhetoric?

 

[kcd117]

Im not the only one who thinks kanos 3rd will make him good. Biohazard and Mustard think so too. In fact Bio said if he just had Snake bite he would be good.
Mustard and Bio both did breakdowns of how good SnakeBite is for Kano.
The biggest problem he has is high risk/low reward (D1xxKanoBall) and his options being OSed but with SB both of those problems go away.
I guess we will see.

Can’t agree. The biggest problem imo is that his best, and only button sometimes is his D1.

All I can see it changing is it won’t force him to do D1 xx ball for 17% anymore as you can do D1 xx snake bite for 24%, and that is it, he will still remain a character with a plethora of tools and options that simply don’t work bc they are literally crippled by terrible frame data.

I really want him to be good but it is so hard to believe he’ll not be the worst character in this game as long as he doesn’t have a single safe hit confirmable button outside of 22.