Hot Take: Third variations will have little to no effect on the meta

[DeftMonk]

I was never to keen on the variation system but I think MK11 does ir much better than MKX, most characters actually have a couple of variationa that are viable and fun to play.

I gotta disagree bro. Mkx variations at least felt complete. Lots of mk11 variations just feel like half a character. Like they designed a full char then said ok for this one only give him a and b that one c and d this one e.

 

[Jynks]

I agree with @MadPropz101 the variations are way better than MKx. MK11 almost all are either viable or fun. In MKx most were unplayable. There was only a few characters in the entire roster you ever saw different variations in the wild, let alone in the competitive scene. MK11 we have all 3 variations represented in the pro scene and online.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

I think we're on the right track we just need more balance passes on these variations. It's no surprise that some are better than others, although it is a bit irksome that many of the good ones are on already good characters.
This just means the base characters who aren't so good need looking at for changes that will improve all of their variations in turn.

Hopefully it doesn't take until next year's Evo to get there.

 

[Arqwart]

I think we're on the right track we just need more balance passes on these variations. It's no surprise that some are better than others, although it is a bit irksome that many of the good ones are on already good characters.
This just means the base characters who aren't so good need looking at for changes that will improve all of their variations in turn.

Hopefully it doesn't take until next year's Evo to get there.

I hope NRS wont wait that long to address the viability discrepancies with V3s. Many are just hobbled-together messes at the moment with little to no reason to pick them. With NRS' MK11 balance track record, I feel we'll end up with a great amount of viable variations as the game's life progresses. They've already set the standard that they are willing to add entirely new things as opposed to just changing frames so we could see new interactions, entirely new enhancements added, entirely new KBs created, etc.

 

[Vhozite]

So who all got great third variations?

 

[Arqwart]

So who all got great third variations?

Great: Frost, Johnny, Kabal, Kano, Jacqui

Good: Kitana, Kotal, Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Skarlet, Liu, D'Vorah, Geras

Situationally Good: Shang

 

[JTC]

Its easy to say v3 is good when your first 2 are ass.

Lmfao

 

[Jynks]

so.... we all good on walking this conjecture back?

 

[Vampbite]

I think Soul Eater Shang is my favourite 3rd variation in the game. Only one to me that doesn't feel like NRS picked the remaining scraps of moves and tossed them in because they had no choice.

 

[Vslayer]

TFW Johnny's 3rd variation made him jump to #1

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

We should have all predicted some would be busted and fun and over used and some would be utterly worthless and never seen.

 

[BarakaTile]

so.... we all good on walking this conjecture back?

Oh man rember when dave said Liu Kang f4 being slightly adjusted by 2 frames would have an impact on the meta more than 3rd Variations?

You rember? I rember.

 

[M2Dave]

so.... we all good on walking this conjecture back?

No. Why?

 

[spidey300]

New year and Dave was pretty much right. There's like a handful of cases. We all know a lot of these variations is just shit slapped together

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

@M2Dave what the hell are these people talking about?

Didn’t a former Liu Kang player who’s switched to Johnny Cage’s 2nd variation win the last tournament?

And weren’t the only 3rd variations I saw making it to finals the same old characters (Jacqui, Geras, Johnny) we’ve been seeing regardless of 3rd variations being a thing anyway?

wow what a game changer those 3rd variations sure are

 

[CrimsonShadow]

@M2Dave what the hell are these people talking about?

Didn’t a former Liu Kang player who’s switched to Johnny Cage’s 2nd variation win the last tournament?

And weren’t the only 3rd variations I saw making it to finals the same old characters (Jacqui, Geras, Johnny) we’ve been seeing regardless of 3rd variations being a thing anyway?

wow what a game changer those 3rd variations sure are

We weren’t seeing a lot of Johnny in top 8 or any grand finals, and now literally everyone is playing him and he’s a mainstay in the top two.

Shang Tsung is by no means a common top 8 character, but has benefited from the options his third variation provides. Jacqui went from being dropped by nearly every top player to possibly becoming a popular choice again and finally winning something. There are no sub zero players, but it’s pretty well accepted that his third variation changes his MUs. Etc.

I think it’s pretty safe to say that 3rd variations have changed some things up. And those changes will continue to be borne out as they make further balance adjustments that make it more and more attractive to play other chars.

 

[M2Dave]

@M2Dave what the hell are these people talking about?

Didn’t a former Liu Kang player who’s switched to Johnny Cage’s 2nd variation win the last tournament?

And weren’t the only 3rd variations I saw making it to finals the same old characters (Jacqui, Geras, Johnny) we’ve been seeing regardless of 3rd variations being a thing anyway?

wow what a game changer those 3rd variations sure are

Geras and Jacqui have powerful universal normal attacks as well as special moves so all three of their variations will always be strong. They are exceptions to the rule.

Johnny Cage's Outtake has had a major impact on the meta. In this sense, some people may consider my prediction to be inaccurate, but keep in mind that one great variation does not compensate for so many mediocre ones.

My point has always revolved less about third variations and more about the variation system as a whole. The system has proven not to function as intended and ought to be discarded for the next Mortal Kombat game.

 

[John Grizzly]

I can't believe no one has mentioned Shao Kahn's Realm Destroyer variation!!!! I'm so sick of seeing it in tournament!

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Geras and Jacqui have powerful universal normal attacks as well as special moves so all three of their variations will always be strong. They are exceptions to the rule.

Johnny Cage's Outtake has had a major impact on the meta. In this sense, some people may consider my prediction to be inaccurate, but keep in mind that one great variation does not compensate for so many mediocre ones.

My point has always revolved less about third variations and more about the variation system as a whole. The system has proven not to function as intended and ought to be discarded for the next Mortal Kombat game.

I would argue though that Jacqui’s 3rd variation specifically covers some issues she had that caused most top players to stop playing her. Chiefly that:

She needs to get in in a game where many characters have useful zoning tools. While obviously not impossible, it would be hard to justify picking her over characters like Cassie, Liu Kang, and Cage that are granted additional control of match pacing and spacing via their projectiles. Upgraded allows Jacqui to close this gap more easily.

Being able to dictate the pace of the match is huge in a slower-paced game like MK11, and her ability to do that is gained in Upgraded at the expense of some safety. It has less to do with her normals and far more to do with Bionic Bounce and MB air blast.

And then secondly, it gives her a viable hitconfirm off of b32, which gives her a reason to use her previously gimmicky low more often. And this, again, isn’t so much about the normals as being able to cancel into Bionic Bounce.

I think just saying “Well she was good anyway because f31 and f12” doesn’t really do justice to how the 3rd variation’s tools actually do significantly impact the meta of playing her vs. the cast.

 

[KIllaByte]

Man, this take went nuclear.

 

[M2Dave]

I would argue though that Jacqui’s 3rd variation specifically covers some issues she had that caused most top players to stop playing her. Chiefly that:

She needs to get in in a game where many characters have useful zoning tools. While obviously not impossible, it would be hard to justify picking her over characters like Cassie, Liu Kang, and Cage that are granted additional control of match pacing and spacing via their projectiles. Upgraded allows Jacqui to close this gap more easily.

Being able to dictate the pace of the match is huge in a slower-paced game like MK11, and her ability to do that is gained in Upgraded at the expense of some safety. It has less to do with her normals and far more to do with Bionic Bounce and MB air blast.

And then secondly, it gives her a viable hitconfirm off of b32, which gives her a reason to use her previously gimmicky low more often. And this, again, isn’t so much about the normals as being able to cancel into Bionic Bounce.

I think just saying “Well she was good anyway because f31 and f12” doesn’t really do justice to how the 3rd variation’s tools actually do significantly impact the meta of playing her vs. the cast.

I obviously do not know Jacqui to the extent that a character loyalist does, but I do know that a character with arguably the best 9 frame mid string can only be so bad in all three variations. She has access to other solid universal tools too.

Geras is the other example. Every variation has f+2,1,2, splash, low sand trap, throw loops, and b,f+1 for damaging and hit-confirm-able combos. None of the variations can be bad by design, especially when two of them have a mid command grab.

Geras and Jacqui are exceptions of the flawed variation system, or perhaps successful examples, depending on your perspective.

The point is that a character like Kitana has a much limited universal toolkit in comparison. She heavily relies on special moves of a particular variations, and if the special moves suck, the variation sucks. Such is the case for most characters in this game.