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Match-up Discussion Harley Quinn Matchup Discussion

Nu-Skoool

Nu-Skoool

Feel the nerf of despair
Eshi said:
Okay. I'm pretty sure Harley vs. Doomsday is by far her worst match-up in this game. She can punish his jD3 with sweep for like 8%, but if it misses or gets beaten then she eats 40%. She literally can not punish it with anything else so the risk/reward is disgustingly skewed. The best thing she can do is pray she gets a life lead so she can spam pistol shots for 4% each from full screen, but his trait and MB tackle help him deal with it. Not only that but his MB charge is PLUS ON BLOCK, so after he gets in for a single bar of meter he can run his mix-up train on her terrible defense.

Am I missing some important details, or is this match-up seriously that bad? My room mate and I have been playing for an equivalent amount of time but he's literally beating me 20-1 right now.
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http://testyourmight.com/threads/a-quick-crash-course-on-doomsday-the-bad-then-the-good.30985/
Take a read. The thing you have to remember about Harley is she is a versatile character that has a lot of tools but none that are really abusable. You have to be able to switch your gamestyle pretty quickly. With that said Doomsday has no reversals, so hes pretty much free on wakeup so abuse that opportunity to mixup and hit him hard or setup some oki pressure, you have an amazing backdash use it aswell as wakeup tantrum.

One more thing dont look at a blocked MB charge as a bad thing. Yes while he maybe plus on block he just wasted a bar to get in. Thats a bar he may have to needed to end a round or use for in a wager. Just because you arent punishing a move doesnt make it insignificant, everything matters.
 
E

Eshi

Noob
Nu-Skoool said:
http://testyourmight.com/threads/a-quick-crash-course-on-doomsday-the-bad-then-the-good.30985/
Take a read. The thing you have to remember about Harley is she is a versatile character that has a lot of tools but none that are really abusable. You have to be able to switch your gamestyle pretty quickly. With that said Doomsday has no reversals, so hes pretty much free on wakeup so abuse that opportunity to mixup and hit him hard or setup some oki pressure, you have an amazing backdash use it aswell as wakeup tantrum.

One more thing dont look at a blocked MB charge as a bad thing. Yes while he maybe plus on block he just wasted a bar to get in. Thats a bar he may have to needed to end a round or use for in a wager. Just because you arent punishing a move doesnt make it insignificant, everything matters.
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Interesting points. I started doing better once I realized that he doesn't have any wake-up options and focused more on oki than keepaway. He can't do anything about 2D3 * N except push block since there's only a five frame gap while his fastest normal is seven frames. Playing that way feels extremely lame though, hah.
 
Slego

Slego

The Saltan of Salt
Three Treasures said:
How the hell do you get in on sinestro without burning meter.
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In my (limited) experience, his straight missile will give you a free oopsy daisy, and his boulder gives you a free dash possibly into TS. So think of it as a 50 50 guessing game where one option gives you a free combo into continued pressure.

Edit: Meant oopsy daisy, not pop pop

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
 
Sasuga

Sasuga

Noob
Just a general question.... How do you get out of pressure? It seems that in this game, you need to rely on opponent making a mistake while pressuring and then punish it. Backdash gets stuffed and D1 doesn't even seem reliable to break your opp's pressure. Even Meter burn B3 gets stuffed by multiple hits that are not hard to land when you get up from knockdown. Unless your character has a good reversal, you seem to be pretty much at the mercy of your opp's pressuring skills.

That being said, Harley's normals are pretty bad. B2 has nice range, bad startup. 2 has better startup but bad range. 1 is really fast but still not adequate to break pressure with. Am I that bad at this game, lolz?
 
E

Eshi

Noob
There is no single option - you have to be able to recognize the situation and react accordingly. If there's a 6/7 frame hole, then use 1/D1. If it's not a string that's cancelable on whiff, then backdash. If it only hits once (Doomsday supernova, Black Adam boot stomp), then use MB B3. If you're in the corner, push block. You have to really understand the system mechanics, if you can get out of pressure with Harley then you can with anyone.
 
E

Eshi

Noob
Flash is an incredibly annoying match-up - his #YOLO charge special is super fast and pushes him back a safe distance on block so she can't punish it. Same for jumping over it to make it whiff. The only real solution I've figured out is spamming Line of Fire since it's fast and will hit during his charge. I do not at all feel comfortable vs. him at midrange spacing.
 
xWEBSx

xWEBSx

Too old for this Shit
Eshi said:
Flash is an incredibly annoying match-up - his #YOLO charge special is super fast and pushes him back a safe distance on block so she can't punish it. Same for jumping over it to make it whiff. The only real solution I've figured out is spamming Line of Fire since it's fast and will hit during his charge. I do not at all feel comfortable vs. him at midrange spacing.
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No real trouble vs Flash.. Zone him out... Pop pop works wonders if he is full screen, specially with a life lead, sure he can duck it, but if Flash is ducking, he's not moving or hitting. Plus it eats his dive charge up (which is what he lves to use to get in if left unchecked). Don't be afraid to use your guns vs him.. It causes him to make mistakes! And a sloppy or desperate Flash is a dead Flash!
I have typically run into 2 different types of Flash players.. Those that are super move heavy and rely on Character Power to cause the true damage, or the normal move using Flash who prefers his high punch combos or his low kick combos.. Figure out which you are fighting and use the opposite.. If he is using normals, back dash and use specials, if he is using specials, block and punish w/ normals.
 
D

Deleted member 9158

Guest
Alright so I've been having some serious issues against Black Adam. Even the scrubbiest of scrubby black adams give me a lot of trouble. I have difficulties approaching him, because if I do I either eat a projectile (Like his low thunder bolt thing) or I eat a dive kick. I'm probably just not using my head when fighting BA though. Could someone lend a tip or two against Black Adam? I'll be going into the lab shortly to figure out what is punishable and what isn't for Black adam.
 
ShinSenkai

ShinSenkai

Noob
I know it's still early days but Black Adam seems like a horrible MU. Quite literally, it seems as if no matter what Harley can do, Adam can do better. I know that his dive kick is punishable with D1~TS provided it connects above a certain level (roughly upper chest and above) on block. As far as how to approach the match itself goes.. Still under investigation :-\ .
 
Fear_Me

Fear_Me

Noob
What do you guys do against Killer Frost? This is just in general, because I have huge problems against her. She is like a safe Scorpion, which is stupid imo. I'm always afraid of the slide (why is this thing safe?) and you can't react to the overhead. I really start to hate the game because it's like playing a constant 50/50. Win or lose, she's the only character that causes me to turn off the game (after the fight of course).
 
Mr Bodied

Mr Bodied

Noob
ShinSenkai said:
I know it's still early days but Black Adam seems like a horrible MU. Quite literally, it seems as if no matter what Harley can do, Adam can do better. I know that his dive kick is punishable with D1~TS provided it connects above a certain level (roughly upper chest and above) on block. As far as how to approach the match itself goes.. Still under investigation :-\ .
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This matchup actually made me pick up Black Adam as a secondary because it frustrated the hell out of me.

I really don't think it's that bad now. What Harley wants to do is get in medium range, where BA will be scared to throw lightning. From this range he really only has 2 options:

1. B2 which is his longest range normal and hits overhead. This is what most BAs rely on and it becomes very predictable and easy to whiff punish once you know what it looks like.

2. Jump into a crossup or divekick. If you have this scouted Harley's j2 should be able to stuff it and you can full combo.

Black Adam's strings are not good compared to Harley's and you can generally block high and be safe. Just stay in his face. His AA is also pretty atrocious so abuse j2.

Aquaman on the other hand... That seems like a 7-3 or 8-2 in Aquaman's favor. He just doesn't give a shit about her gimmicks and outranges her with trident all day. His anti zoning is really good too. If someone knows something I don't please share.
 
Jermball

Jermball

Noob
What's crazy is I thought that myself. Aquaman blows a lot of harley tactics up. The best way to deal with aquaman is to be familiar with his strings...most like to abuse low. But its not that. Aquamans trait is too good against harley...blows up tantrum stance
 
Jermball

Jermball

Noob
Also b3 is the bane of aquamans existance...espcially one that jumps a lot to get in. Also duck trident toss...and stand block seismo. If you time jump in, you must be precise or you will eat AA Since aquaman has really good AA
 
Fergus

Fergus

Like Father, Like Daughter
I feel Aquaman is pretty rough for Harley, she struggles a bit to get in on him, she can't really AA him with d+2 (unless I'm doing something wrong), his tridant jumpin seems to stuff it everytime, he has a counter like move that nullifies her projectiles and his trait seems to just blow up her combos, she can't seem to compete with him at neutral and he also has a really solid AA so jumping on him doesn't seem to be an option.

This is just day 1 stuff but it feels hard.
 
xWEBSx

xWEBSx

Too old for this Shit
Fergus said:
I feel Aquaman is pretty rough for Harley, she struggles a bit to get in on him, she can't really AA him with d+2 (unless I'm doing something wrong), his tridant jumpin seems to stuff it everytime, he has a counter like move that nullifies her projectiles and his trait seems to just blow up her combos, she can't seem to compete with him at neutral and he also has a really solid AA so jumping on him doesn't seem to be an option.

This is just day 1 stuff but it feels hard.
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Aquaman and Dick matchup is the same.. JUMPING GUNS ruin their day and they can't do anything about it. Jumping guns gets Aquaman thinking twice about throwing that trident out as an AA, causing your J2 pressure to become more effective. If Dick gets spark happy, keep him honest with jumping guns.. He can only fry to counter or try to get safe with air wingdings..Aquaman has no air move that can counter...if you are fighting a character who has a very good AA or a player who knows how to AA.. Jumping guns starts the mind games that weakens that barrier.. Is his next jump ongoing to be guns or her feet?!
 
D

Deleted member 9158

Guest
Mr Bodied said:
This matchup actually made me pick up Black Adam as a secondary because it frustrated the hell out of me.

I really don't think it's that bad now. What Harley wants to do is get in medium range, where BA will be scared to throw lightning. From this range he really only has 2 options:

1. B2 which is his longest range normal and hits overhead. This is what most BAs rely on and it becomes very predictable and easy to whiff punish once you know what it looks like.

2. Jump into a crossup or divekick. If you have this scouted Harley's j2 should be able to stuff it and you can full combo.

Black Adam's strings are not good compared to Harley's and you can generally block high and be safe. Just stay in his face. His AA is also pretty atrocious so abuse j2.

Aquaman on the other hand... That seems like a 7-3 or 8-2 in Aquaman's favor. He just doesn't give a shit about her gimmicks and outranges her with trident all day. His anti zoning is really good too. If someone knows something I don't please share.
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When it goes to ol' seaman you just have to hope and pray they do something stupid really
 
TheSpore

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
I use both Harley and Catwoman, and thus far I don't have too many issues with anyone except Aquaman, he just has the ability to conrtol you anywhere, what I have learned thus far is the air guns do help keep him at bay, you don't wanna be on the ground much with him either because of his Trident ground attack(can't remmeber the name at all . His B2 Trident Scoop(TScoop) can be problematic, its a favorite of folks to use, but if you can forsee it do a good B3 MB and it will stop it, but best bet is alway expect some sort of mix up in close when you rush down to him. I am still getting destroyed by him, but I am doing my best to figure his ass out, hell I might end learning to us ethe basterd just to learn to kick his ass.

One thing I noticed too about using HQ is that her D3 is highly useful and has a good range to it. Also her F1,3 is useful and if you time things right B1,2,1 can help close a gap well and can be a good way to punish.
 
M

Mood4food77

Noob
i don't have a freaking clue what to do against a good shazam

i think half of my losses with harley are against shazam...he just ruins her
 
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