Green Arrow General Discussion Thread

[Scoot Magee]

the timing I found to load the boxing arrow is to do it as soon as the opponent stops moving/is fully frozen. It is then a little tight to store into B3 but it can be done, or maybe it will be more lenient in the corner as you cam combo into something else.

What was the results of your B2 testing?

it's definitely minus even if you b2 xx 4. At 54 frames of cancel advantage it should jail into an arrow but it doesn't come close to doing that.

 

[SoundsLikePAUSE]

What makes Aquaman hard, out of curiosity? Seems like you might be able to reversal slide punish a lot of from the deeps, or at least get free reloads?

Smart Aquaman players wouldn't do FTD from that range anyways. Aquaman wins this MU by basically just holding back. Despite what many might think, GA doesn't have any real unreactable mixups. I've played Theo many times in INJ1 and in tournament 2 weeks ago and there is no safe way for Arrow to approach this character. He out-footsies us (and most characters), and if we somehow manage to land a hit, trait saves him pretty quick.

But you are right, we do get free arrow re-loads after blocking a FTD.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Smart Aquaman players wouldn't do FTD from that range anyways. Aquaman wins this MU by basically just holding back. Despite what many might think, GA doesn't have any real unreactable mixups. I've played Theo many times in INJ1 and in tournament 2 weeks ago and there is no safe way for Arrow to approach this character. He out-footsies us (and most characters), and if we somehow manage to land a hit, trait saves him pretty quick.

But you are right, we do get free arrow re-loads after blocking a FTD.

He does have unreactable mixups in some cases.

F2d1xx mb stinger can not be blocked on reaction if they use fuzzy to guard f2d13 and f2d1xx4. Also if you have an ice arrow f2d1xx low 4, f2d13 and f2d1xx jump back overhead arrow is pretty hard to block. It is more work than required by other characters though.

I played a pretty decent aquaman last night and I felt playing at mid range where from the deep is punishable was best. I was mostly using fire arrows while trying to back him to the corner and it worked pretty well.

 

[SoundsLikePAUSE]

He does have unreactable mixups in some cases.

F2d1xx mb stinger can not be blocked on reaction if they use fuzzy to guard f2d13 and f2d1xx4. Also if you have an ice arrow f2d1xx low 4, f2d13 and f2d1xx jump back overhead arrow is pretty hard to block. It is more work than required by other characters though.

I played a pretty decent aquaman last night and I felt playing at mid range where from the deep is punishable was best. I was mostly using fire arrows while trying to back him to the corner and it worked pretty well.

Cancel into Stinger yes, but doesn't give much damage and I've seen King block the F2D1-cancels pretty consistently in tournament and casuals, even against ChrisG and I know Theo can do it with ease.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Cancel into Stinger yes, but doesn't give much damage and I've seen King block the F2D1-cancels pretty consistently in tournament and casuals, even against ChrisG and I know Theo can do it with ease.

I get it. I'm just going off my experience from the 1st and 2nd game. I had some pretty good competition here in NY and adding those cancels to f2d1 seemed to make things a bit more ambiguous. It actually worked well for me.

As for the damage I believe mb stinger does like 15%. Arrpw was never really a heavy hitter so imo it's worth it. My goal normally is to push people to the corner so I tend to use mb slide a lot In neutral and during f2d13.

Fire arrows have really been my main thing in this game though. The chip damage gives a bit more incentive for people to avoid them which helps a lot imo.

My match up experience is definitely limited in this game so I'm just going based off my offline experience only. I could definitely see aquaman being a rough mu.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

@SoundsLikePAUSE

Love your GA play. Always try to watch vids and such when I can. Question, if you dont mind.. GA seems to have a huge number of combo options, midscreen and corner. Just a shit-ton. What combo routes are you finding to be optimal for use in actual play, off our main/common starters/scenarios?

I know this question has been answered in a way, through the numerous combo postings, but its hard to parse what an extremely experienced player would prefer to use. If you dont feel like typing out a long answer, if you could just point me towards a video or two of you using your optimals, I can figure it out via that.

 

[Scoot Magee]

@SoundsLikePAUSE

Most good players will always fuzzy f2d13 and f2d1xxlow4, right? The rhythm on the timing is pretty strict. I specifically started jumping back with 4 after f2d1 to counter fuzzy guard. Is it possible for them to fuzzy and cover that option as well? I had a really hard time trying to cover all the options in training mode. I just want to evaluate how viable it really is.

F2 staggers are actually very useful as well.

 

[SoundsLikePAUSE]

@SoundsLikePAUSE

Love your GA play. Always try to watch vids and such when I can. Question, if you dont mind.. GA seems to have a huge number of combo options, midscreen and corner. Just a shit-ton. What combo routes are you finding to be optimal for use in actual play, off our main/common starters/scenarios?

I know this question has been answered in a way, through the numerous combo postings, but its hard to parse what an extremely experienced player would prefer to use. If you dont feel like typing out a long answer, if you could just point me towards a video or two of you using your optimals, I can figure it out via that.

Lemme get back to you on that. These first few weeks I've just been focusing on learning all the new MU's for tournament play , so I haven't gotten around to exploring his best combos. Maybe @Scoot Magee or @Red Reaper can help with that?

@SoundsLikePAUSE

Most good players will always fuzzy f2d13 and f2d1xxlow4, right? The rhythm on the timing is pretty strict. I specifically started jumping back with 4 after f2d1 to counter fuzzy guard. Is it possible for them to fuzzy and cover that option as well? I had a really hard time trying to cover all the options in training mode. I just want to evaluate how viable it really is.

F2 staggers are actually very useful as well.

I'm going to experiment with this more this weekend and test it out in the War of the Gods tournament.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Lemme get back to you on that. These first few weeks I've just been focusing on learning all the new MU's for tournament play , so I haven't gotten around to exploring his best combos. Maybe @Scoot Magee or @Red Reaper can help with that?


I'm going to experiment with this more this weekend and test it out in the War of the Gods tournament.

Np man. I have a huge list written down to keep me busy lol.

 

[Red Reaper]

What makes Aquaman hard, out of curiosity? Seems like you might be able to reversal slide punish a lot of from the deeps, or at least get free reloads?

There's ways to make the match up less terrible, and we should explore that, but it's a pretty bad match up.

I kan break down the match up a bit.. At full screen you should just be blocking, block a FTD here and then you get an arrow load or a dash in. At kloser mid range you don't want to dash in after FTD because he'll be plus after your dash in. Even if you don't end up to klose to him, this is a bad idea because he will be in footsie range (where he wins) and at advantage (if you go point blank up to him, he gets a free D1 trident rush, but at that range you should be punishing him with a slide). Once you're at footsie range, you either have an Ice arrow or one of the other two. Shooting these arrows from this range is now dangerous because he out footsies you and the game sort of komes down to who reads what, but he outdamages you. Not only that, but he has more meter since he was building it when you blocked those FTDs. If you have an Ice arrow and you don't make the read, he either just hit you for a kombo, or he blocked in which kase you're now at his optimal range without any arrows loaded and he won't be giving you a chance to load that arrow easily. If you want to use Savage Blast to beat his footsie normals, you risk getting hit by FTD into good damage since at this range he only risks getting punished with a slide. There are options in the match up, but the game is his to play. He doesn't have to do anything, you do.

Also, B123 needs to be fixed... It should not be plus 2. Even Theo posted on twitter that it shouldn't be plus 2.....

 

[Red Reaper]

Np man. I have a huge list written down to keep me busy lol.

I was thinking of asking the OP in the kombo thread to maintain it or I would possibly take it over, but I have also been busy learning characters and match ups.. I learn a few characters just to give my training partner match up experience and knowledge on their tools and he does the same, so over time we kover the whole kast.

My kurrent midscreen BnBs are:
starter, mb hurricane bow, b3, j2, B23 for the untechable knockdown
starter, mb hurricane bow, walk forward, 3, sky alert, b3, j3, 111, load arrow

In the korner, I've been exploring. One I like is: F3, 3, sky alert, 3, sky alert, 111, slide
I like it because it builds meter and I usually get it after a korner knockdown if they wake up or press buttons.
Or you kan do: D1, mb hurricane bow, 3, sky alert, 3, sky alert, 3 sky alert, d1 slide.
I've been trying to get the most sky alerts in korner kombos since they build a good amount of meter.

Also, you kan kombo in the korner off of slide just like in the last game by doing d1 into mb hurricane bow or just ending it with a d1 slide. Though if I remember korrectly in the last game you needed to space out the slide to get the kombo, here you just need to time you're d1 korrectly.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

I was thinking of asking the OP in the kombo thread to maintain it or I would possibly take it over, but I have also been busy learning characters and match ups.. I learn a few characters just to give my training partner match up experience and knowledge on their tools and he does the same, so over time we kover the whole kast.

My kurrent midscreen BnBs are:
starter, mb hurricane bow, b3, j2, B23 for the untechable knockdown
starter, mb hurricane bow, walk forward, 3, sky alert, b3, j3, 111, load arrow

In the korner, I've been exploring. One I like is: F3, 3, sky alert, 3, sky alert, 111, slide
I like it because it builds meter and I usually get it after a korner knockdown if they wake up or press buttons.
Or you kan do: D1, mb hurricane bow, 3, sky alert, 3, sky alert, 3 sky alert, d1 slide.
I've been trying to get the most sky alerts in korner kombos since they build a good amount of meter.

Also, you kan kombo in the korner off of slide just like in the last game by doing d1 into mb hurricane bow or just ending it with a d1 slide. Though if I remember korrectly in the last game you needed to space out the slide to get the kombo, here you just need to time you're d1 korrectly.

Thanks much man. Yeah I actually just posted in the combo thread about making a new one myself and keeping it updated and in order for the GA Community. Ideally with a resource for tech and videos and such attached at the bottom. I ran the Kotal Kahn combo thread for a long time until I left MKX entirely - and even then I posted that I was leaving and offered to turn the thread over to anyone who wanted it. (I mention this so a rough sample of what I have in mind can be seen)

I wouldn't mind doing the same thing here for GA, assuming I got the blessing of the GA community in general. Our current thread isnt cutting it, but I don't want to spent 6-7hrs putting something together than find out someone else already did it, lol.

 

[Red Reaper]

Thanks much man. Yeah I actually just posted in the combo thread about making a new one myself and keeping it updated and in order for the GA Community. Ideally with a resource for tech and videos and such attached at the bottom. I ran the Kotal Kahn combo thread for a long time until I left MKX entirely - and even then I posted that I was leaving and offered to turn the thread over to anyone who wanted it. (I mention this so a rough sample of what I have in mind can be seen)

I wouldn't mind doing the same thing here for GA, assuming I got the blessing of the GA community in general. Our current thread isnt cutting it, but I don't want to spent 6-7hrs putting something together than find out someone else already did it, lol.

You should make a new one and tell a mod to merge the old one with it after you reserved a few komment spots.. I'm always messing with Arrow so I'll be sure to post. I think most people are focusing on match ups so I'm pretty sure everyone else would appreciate the resource. I know I would.

I almost forgot but I also found out that at a specific height you kan actually get a B3 after the MB Up Haven Blast anti-air too: AA UHB MB, B3, J3, F2, Hurricane Bow

 

[Red Reaper]

Have any of you tested the advantage on electric arrows? I was wondering if I should use it more for things other than long range overhead/low stuff and Anti-Airs. I'm testing low electric arrow and it seems like low electric arrow into dash is +1 (I keep trading with Aquaman's D1). At first I thought this was bad, but they have to be on point to trade with me and if there is a trade, ours is +9 on hit and his is +7 on hit so we get another D1 check.

I keep exploring the Aquaman match up since he has a tool for every situation I kan think of, so I'm thinking I might eventually kompile a guide against him.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Ill start putting something together. It'll take me a day or two to get it sorted.

 

[Paul the Octopus]

Do you guys know if any of Green Arrow's strings are actually plus? 113 and b23 appear to be plus in the frame data, but when I test 113 or b23 into d1, I'm always able to poke through with Aquaman's 6f d1.

Not sure if I'm just messing it up or the frame data is wrong, like it often is.

 

[Red Reaper]

Do you guys know if any of Green Arrow's strings are actually plus? 113 and b23 appear to be plus in the frame data, but when I test 113 or b23 into d1, I'm always able to poke through with Aquaman's 6f d1.

Not sure if I'm just messing it up or the frame data is wrong, like it often is.

I just tested both those strings by recording it and trying to D1 with Black Adam's six frame D1 and Black Adam would lose every time when I got the recording korrect. So it must be your timing... That's something I should practice.

Also, like Scoot Magee said, 33 into standing arrow jails on block and it's plus. It beats Black Adam's six frame D1 too from this same testing.

 

[Dark Chylde]

Is there a green arrow discord if so can I have the link

 

[Afrophysics]

I'm testing low electric arrow and it seems like low electric arrow into dash is +1 (I keep trading with Aquaman's D1). At first I thought this was bad, but they have to be on point to trade with me and if there is a trade, ours is +9 on hit and his is +7 on hit so we get another D1 check.

Really? Is that advantage on hit or on block?

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Just a small update. Compiling and formatting tech/combos/general GA stuffs. Combo thread is on its way, hopefully a rough draft will be up by this evening, but worst case scenario, I'll have something by tomorrow. Just want to let folks know I'm still working on it.

 

[Red Reaper]

Really? Is that advantage on hit or on block?

Low electric arrow is plus on hit and you stay plus 1 if you do a dash after it hits...

 

[Red Reaper]

Is there a green arrow discord if so can I have the link

I hope not... I don't know how you kan look through those for tech and sometimes the chats are random..

 

[DeftMonk]

every time someone says "kan" it throws me off big time because thats how you write "look" in chinese pinyin.

 

[Red Reaper]

every time someone says "kan" it throws me off big time because thats how you write "look" in chinese pinyin.

So what does "kan look" do to you? Is it like seeing "ATM Machine" ?

 

[Cossner]

My EARLY MU chart:

(GA - Other Character)
Cyborg 5 - 5
GL 5 - 5
Flash 5 - 5
Gorilla Grodd 6 - 4
Aquaman 3 - 7
Atrocitus 4 - 6
Batman 6 - 4
Superman 4 - 6
Supergirl 4 - 6
Dr Fate 3 - 7
Robin 6 - 4
Bane 7 - 3
Scarecrow 6 - 4
Catwoman 5 - 5
Joker 7 - 3
Green Arrow 9 - 1
Cpt Cold 7 - 3
Cheetah 5 - 5 (Prolly in GAs favor tbh)
Swamp Thing 7 - 3
Blue Beetle 5 - 5
Harley 5 - 5
WoWo 6 - 4
Dead Shot 5 - 5
Black Canary 6 - 4
Firestorm 6 - 4
Poison Ivy 3 - 7
Black Adam 5 - 5
Darkseid 5 - 5
Brainiac 6 - 4