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Frost General Discussion

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
What would you guys recommend as a third slot in a variation with Auger and Icequake?

I really do hate how Burrowing Auger costs 2 slots.
I would say microburst, for a few reasons:
  • You can use it to extend combos
  • It's a mid so you can D1 cancel into it if you feel the opponent is going to try and take his turn back after blocking your poke
  • The restand of the microburst when not amplified has potential for further pressure
The alternatives are combo enders and honestly, I find that with the spin (for damage) and the grenades (for hard knockdown) you already have solid combo enders. Not to mention their KB requirements mean you have to go off strategy.
Core overload...lets not even discuss this gimmick and the Shield, while good for anti-zoning is a bit redundant with the fast dive kick, that gets in on zoners anyway
 

Law Hero

Reach Heaven through violence
I would say microburst, for a few reasons:
  • You can use it to extend combos
  • It's a mid so you can D1 cancel into it if you feel the opponent is going to try and take his turn back after blocking your poke
  • The restand of the microburst when not amplified has potential for further pressure
The alternatives are combo enders and honestly, I find that with the spin (for damage) and the grenades (for hard knockdown) you already have solid combo enders. Not to mention their KB requirements mean you have to go off strategy.
Core overload...lets not even discuss this gimmick and the Shield, while good for anti-zoning is a bit redundant with the fast dive kick, that gets in on zoners anyway
That's a good idea, thanks for the assist. Been using the shield, but only because I had no idea what to add to the variation. I just wish she had another move that was useful without meter and didn't cost two slots.
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
That's a good idea, thanks for the assist. Been using the shield, but only because I had no idea what to add to the variation. I just wish she had another move that was useful without meter and didn't cost two slots.
I hear ya.
Honestly, I struggle with having the kustom with Auger + Dive kick + Microburst because I end up just using augers since they provide safe pressure while microburst doesnt. I end up playing that kustom very similarly to Arctic Anarchy.

I wish Burrowing auger was only 1 slot (I dont know why it isnt honestly, its not that incredible). If it was, I can imagine a custom like Augers + Burrowing Auger + shield/dive kick be very good. You could stop zoners and if you have a shield, you can throw burrowing augers and regular augers to catch them if in range.
 

Law Hero

Reach Heaven through violence
I hear ya.
Honestly, I struggle with having the kustom with Auger + Dive kick + Microburst because I end up just using augers since they provide safe pressure while microburst doesnt. I end up playing that kustom very similarly to Arctic Anarchy.

I wish Burrowing auger was only 1 slot (I dont know why it isnt honestly, its not that incredible). If it was, I can imagine a custom like Augers + Burrowing Auger + shield/dive kick be very good. You could stop zoners and if you have a shield, you can throw burrowing augers and regular augers to catch them if in range.
Yeah, I pretty much just play Arctic Anarchy still only with a rotating third slot. I really wish there was an option for a meterless freeze move like Sub-Zero's ice ball. Mostly because I want to use the Auger Lunge KB, but I would also like some longer combos that can actually reach 30%. It would also be nice to be able to use the armor breaker in the midscreen too. These are all day 1 complaints, but I just want her to be as fun as possible because I've been begging for Frost since MK9.

Anyway, Burrowing should be 1 slot. Please patch, NRS.
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
Yeah, I pretty much just play Arctic Anarchy still only with a rotating third slot. I really wish there was an option for a meterless freeze move like Sub-Zero's ice ball. Mostly because I want to use the Auger Lunge KB, but I would also like some longer combos that can actually reach 30%. It would also be nice to be able to use the armor breaker in the midscreen too. These are all day 1 complaints, but I just want her to be as fun as possible because I've been begging for Frost since MK9.

Anyway, Burrowing should be 1 slot. Please patch, NRS.
You should give Burrowing auger and regular auger a try. Its actually pretty fun
 

Law Hero

Reach Heaven through violence
You should give Burrowing auger and regular auger a try. Its actually pretty fun
I actually have a variation for that, I just haven't taken it out for a spin yet because I don't know any of the setups. I know some videos were posted around here recently, can you link the good/relevant ones to me? I would greatly appreciate it.
 

Gooberking

Solidly Mediocre
I hear ya.
Honestly, I struggle with having the kustom with Auger + Dive kick + Microburst because I end up just using augers since they provide safe pressure while microburst doesnt. I end up playing that kustom very similarly to Arctic Anarchy.

I wish Burrowing auger was only 1 slot (I dont know why it isnt honestly, its not that incredible). If it was, I can imagine a custom like Augers + Burrowing Auger + shield/dive kick be very good. You could stop zoners and if you have a shield, you can throw burrowing augers and regular augers to catch them if in range.
That was kinda my main reason for just using Auger Lunge (apart from not really understanding Microburst all that well). Augers are already a combo extender, and pretty great one at that.

While Auger Lunge doesn't add much damage to spin and the positioning is pretty similar after, MB'ing the thing lets you get a lot more distance toward or away from a corner, and some minor extra damage potential if you catch them with augers at a distance where maybe only f2 would reach before. If you can be a little more mindful with your meter, there is a pretty decent KB available with it, (that is hard to earn in time), but the whole thing ends up being several little things I wasn't getting or using with Core Overload. Maybe a better player would be getting more out of and miss Core Overload more, but in my case anything extra was a gain.

I did play with Shield. Not sure what to think about it, but it seems like it would be very specific match up wise. I played Robocop a bunch (using Robocop) before and after customs. With AA I felt like I had decent buttons really would need to play well because her specials weren't giving me much skin in the game. Shield ate up just enough stuff to force some adjustments and feel like she had something to work with and force adjustments. It also allowed her to eat the first bullet of a amp low-9 which means she can actually dive in. You can shield up, jump and wait and see if the thing is amp or not, and dive in for a true punish at most distances. Something that doesn't work if you have to clear all 4 shots. Similarly helps make getting over Joker's low shots safer to do.

That's super situational though.
 

Vhozite

Jade Worshipper
Yeah I’ve been getting back into the game labbing custom Frost and if you aren’t using B.Auger I feel like my best load out is Auger/Quake/Burst. I really like Core Overload but it’s hard to justify using it. The damage buff is pretty meager and doesn’t last long and it’s hard to get mileage out of the amp freeze. Could use the shield but honestly that move feels not great. I also agree that she doesn’t need the combo ender specials.
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
I also agree that she doesn’t need the combo ender specials.
I revised my position on that actually.
I was debating between Microburst and Auger Lunge. I feel auger lunge might be better than microburst for a few reasons.

The issues with microburst I have:
  • Microburst used as a combo extender with augers scales a lot so the damage isnt worth the bar.
  • Microburst does grant some unbreakable damage but not enough to give you a significant advantage after using a bar
  • Because of (1) & (2), I end up using the regular Auger combos of Arctic Anarchy.
Replacing it with Auger Lunge gives:
  • A fast mid that can catch zoners off guard
  • A fast mid that you can cancel into from a blocked poke (You just can't get a combo like you can with microburst cancel)
  • Great corner carry
  • Potential KB.
Overall, I feel you get more mileage from Frost by having the Auger lunge.
 

Vhozite

Jade Worshipper
I revised my position on that actually.
I was debating between Microburst and Auger Lunge. I feel auger lunge might be better than microburst for a few reasons.

The issues with microburst I have:
  • Microburst used as a combo extender with augers scales a lot so the damage isnt worth the bar.
  • Microburst does grant some unbreakable damage but not enough to give you a significant advantage after using a bar
  • Because of (1) & (2), I end up using the regular Auger combos of Arctic Anarchy.
Replacing it with Auger Lunge gives:
  • A fast mid that can catch zoners off guard
  • A fast mid that you can cancel into from a blocked poke (You just can't get a combo like you can with microburst cancel)
  • Great corner carry
  • Potential KB.
Overall, I feel you get more mileage from Frost by having the Auger lunge.
This so weird because I was just in lab looking at this same exact stuff. I was trying to see how high I could get using Burst and Auger in combos and the short answer is that it’s generally not worth burning two bars. As you mentioned there are definitely reasons to use a Lunge over Burst or Auger depending on what you care about.

My issue with Lunge is you have that KB but I can’t really see myself burning meter to load that up and burning bar for extension with Burst or Auger. It’s a mid special but it’s also super unsafe and not something I’d ever throw raw. It travels far, but I’m trying to get good with instant air quake for that type of thing.

I like Burst because you can get decent unbreakable damage or over 300 damage from stand 1 if you’re not worried about the breakaway. Another thing is that there are situations where MB Burst won’t combo but MB Auger will.

Definitely get where you’re coming from though. I don’t like running what feels like two combo extenders together. If Core Overload wasn’t complete buns I’d use that as my third.

Edit: Burrowing Auger should be one slot or have a close variant.
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
This so weird because I was just in lab looking at this same exact stuff. I was trying to see how high I could get using Burst and Auger in combos and the short answer is that it’s generally not worth burning two bars. As you mentioned there are definitely reasons to use a Lunge over Burst or Auger depending on what you care about.

My issue with Lunge is you have that KB but I can’t really see myself burning meter to load that up and burning bar for extension with Burst or Auger. It’s a mid special but it’s also super unsafe and not something I’d ever throw raw. It travels far, but I’m trying to get good with instant air quake for that type of thing.

I like Burst because you can get decent unbreakable damage or over 300 damage from stand 1 if you’re not worried about the breakaway. Another thing is that there are situations where MB Burst won’t combo but MB Auger will.

Definitely get where you’re coming from though. I don’t like running what feels like two combo extenders together. If Core Overload wasn’t complete buns I’d use that as my third.

Edit: Burrowing Auger should be one slot or have a close variant.
Yea the KB of auger lunge is not very useful. The only time it can be warranted to spend a bar is to corner carry. But the KB is probably the last reason to have the lunge.
I throw it raw, albeit rarely, because it catches a lot of ppl off guard. Especially when they neutral duck expecting a F2

300 unbreakable damage with Burst from S1?? wow what's the combo? All I can think of (while at work lol) is 13-(amp)Burst > J2 > 3442
 
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Vhozite

Jade Worshipper
Yea the KB of auger lunge is not very useful. The only time it can be warranted to spend a bar is to corner carry. But the KB is probably the last reason to have the lunge.
I throw it raw, albeit rarely, because it catches a lot of ppl off guard. Especially when they neutral duck expecting a F2

300 unbreakable damage with Burst from S1?? wow what's the combo? All I can think of (while at work lol) is 13-(amp)Burst > J2 > 3442
Oh no not unbreakable sorry. It was 300 if you weren’t worried about breakaway. I didn’t get a chance to see her top unbreakable damage cause I had to head to work.
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
@Vhozite Alrighty so I labbed a few things and heres what I found when comparing the damage outputs for the 2 different variations

1787417873

Microburst-variation Characteristics
  • Microburst definitely adds damage and while not huge, it can be useful to close a round
  • Getting around 300 worth of unbreakable damage is doable but you need to swap the cyber-head with amplified microburst (2-bars), it can be useful to close a round.
  • Given that the damage is only gotten from microburst after a starter, it can only be used in punishes or else it's -16. This means that when you pressure, you have to stick with amplified Augers to stay safe.
  • Overall, definitely Frost's damage variation
  • D2(KB) > B1~(amp)Microburst > J2~(amp)Augers > B1~Spin = 412 :eek:
Auger Lunge Characteristics
  • Less damage than microburst but it has the corner carry.
  • If amplified, can result in a KB that yields around 375 damage if not more (@scarsunseen will definitely find something lol)
  • Can get in on opponent fast but risky
  • D2(KB) > B12~(amp)Augers > B1~(amp)Spin = 408
I can see benefits in both
 
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scarsunseen

Safeties disabled. Mod mode engaged.
Moderator
She has a lot of good custom moves. It just depends on the match-up I think. She can easily top 40% with BF4 KB. You can do something like this but maybe start with microburst instead?

 

Vhozite

Jade Worshipper
So don’t laugh but is the big axe move any good? (Can’t remember the name...the one that conflicts with Lunge).

I see it has a KB for blowing up low attacks, but it seems a too slow for that unless you’re Professor X or something.
 

scarsunseen

Safeties disabled. Mod mode engaged.
Moderator
So don’t laugh but is the big axe move any good? (Can’t remember the name...the one that conflicts with Lunge).

I see it has a KB for blowing up low attacks, but it seems a too slow for that unless you’re Professor X or something.
Since this game first came out, I have said that BF4 Axe is terrible and its KB's requirements are too inaccessible. I hate this special lol.
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
So don’t laugh but is the big axe move any good? (Can’t remember the name...the one that conflicts with Lunge).

I see it has a KB for blowing up low attacks, but it seems a too slow for that unless you’re Professor X or something.
I second @scarsunseen here. I think the ideas for the axe were
  • When you throw a bomb, people low block out of instinct (even if bomb is a mid) and you catch the with the overhead axe.
  • Combo ender
  • D4 (full range so they cant counter poke) cancel into axe, which could catch ppl trying to poke back
Sadly, the first is a gimmick, the second is weak and the third isnt worth it lol
 

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
Premium Supporter
I really wanted to make microburst and burrowing augers work, but I can’t seem to find a setup that prevents them from jumping on wakeup. If anyone has any ideas I’d love to hear it. I’d honestly give up the spacing of regular auger for microburst damage if I could still get the setup.
 

scarsunseen

Safeties disabled. Mod mode engaged.
Moderator
I really wanted to make microburst and burrowing augers work, but I can’t seem to find a setup that prevents them from jumping on wakeup. If anyone has any ideas I’d love to hear it. I’d honestly give up the spacing of regular auger for microburst damage if I could still get the setup.
I don't think this variation allows for a setup where they can't jump on wakeup. I've only found that they can't jump when doing amplified augers followed by b.augers for oki.

I wish they'd just delete that BF4 axe. What a garbage special. It very obviously sucks - A LOT - and I don't understand the developer's thought process behind it. I think it was very dumb to have V1 Frostbyte bound to that special for like 2 years until the recent update with custom tournament variations. This axe special is terrible.. Don't use it lol.
 

BurdaA

Frost-Byte
Only other thing about axe is as ender is a few extra knockdown frames. Not if they’ve got breakaway unless you like dying, and not in the corner (for frostbyte v1) as spacing didn’t favour headbomb setups. Still 100% not worth it. It is awful.
 

scarsunseen

Safeties disabled. Mod mode engaged.
Moderator
Only other thing about axe is as ender is a few extra knockdown frames. Not if they’ve got breakaway unless you like dying, and not in the corner (for frostbyte v1) as spacing didn’t favour headbomb setups. Still 100% not worth it. It is awful.
lol true. On top of being terrible already, this special causes a mini pop-up where they can easily wake up and you eat a full punish.
 
I don't think this variation allows for a setup where they can't jump on wakeup. I've only found that they can't jump when doing amplified augers followed by b.augers for oki.

I wish they'd just delete that BF4 axe. What a garbage special. It very obviously sucks - A LOT - and I don't understand the developer's thought process behind it. I think it was very dumb to have V1 Frostbyte bound to that special for like 2 years until the recent update with custom tournament variations. This axe special is terrible.. Don't use it lol.
It's decent in the tower of time If you have the right augment for what that's worth, same with the shield in the TOT you can make it absorb 2 projectiles
 
Also speaking of core overload it is decent but need to be paired with microburst. If you make the right reads at the end of MICROBURST-J2-344-22-B12-SPIN you can get a relaunch since that sequence lose a lot of time. If they do a long string after the spin they get frozen. If they do a short string your grab will launch them, If they do nothing you can dash then either grab or use b1 and it will freeze. You can either use it with the divebomb or for a f2 mix up.

There are 3 moves I couldn't make any worthwhile variation from or at least couldn't find a reason to use them instead of other depending on the MU: Burrowing auger, Glacier Claving and the Axe.
 

NappyNuisance

Irritatingly Noir
Figured I'd share my thoughts on Kustom Frost. SO! Let's get into it.

I see a lot of the debate and I just want to throw my 2 cents as I play a lot of Frost and I want to share my successes with her. So far the arguement seems to be if it's better to have Microburst or Auger Lunge where as IMO the arguement should be about Microburst over her Ice Auger.

Ice Auger
I haven't really liked her regular Auger as a move for a lot of reasons compared to Microburst. But my biggest reason is because to me it's more of a projectile option and not a combo extender. And with Frost you have Kryo-stance and her core discharge move, 2 very solid zoning tools. I honestly don't think the Auger KB is that much of a difference maker considering the setup is pretty strict. And then using AMP Auger on block just for pressure is only so beneficial. It's safe but you can still get mashed and at the same time you have to give up a bar for that as well. AMP Kryo-stance is just as good on block IMO because the amount of push back pretty much resets neutral and the chip it does on block (4% vs 3%) and I'd rather use blade spin anyway since it's actually pretty safe.

Microburst
Microburst is HUGE in value. And with Auger lunge you have an unbreakable combo that leads to the corner pretty much 100% of the time since you can switch sides after a AMP Microburst. Not to mention AMP Auger Lunge is pretty plus so oki after any confirmed Microburst should always lead to you being +24 in the corner if you're scouting your opponents defensive bar appropriately. My favorite thing to do with Microburst Is test what my opponent will. If I confirm into an AMP Microburst it's easy to get a free reset into a throw if you then hit them with a jump in 1/2 into 344. From b12 mb Microburst j1/2 344 you get 21.6% damage leaving you +16. I dont know about you but having the ability to put my opponent into this situation every now then as a part of the other conditioning your opponent has to go through is insane. Instead of a throw when you're +16 you can go into the pretty well know dash in 22 and end up +5 if your opponent blocks it OR you can hit confirm right back into Microburst and either DO THE WHOLE RESET again or choose a way to finish your combo usually with blade spin or AMP auger lunge. Also after your opponent blocks s22 you usually can keep your pressure going with b1, b12, b12 blade spine/Kryo-stance etc All of that just to say IMO Microburst is Frost's most key move out of all of her moves. I mean she's a Lin Kuei and she only has so many moves that actually freeze her opponet lol

Icequake/Glaciel Calving
Imma combine these 2 into 1 argument because it's basically what would you like to do against someone who's zoning against you. Now With Glaciel Calving it's more of a counter zone tool. You setup the shield. You can zone back or try to approach. But I'mma say Icequake easily wins this because it works for both. Frost has good enough zoning to take meaningful trades with core discharge, being able to use Ice quake once that zoning dominance is established is huge cause it doesn't give your opponent time to recover. But also with Glaciel calving any projectile that shoots more than once pretty much makes it useless. Perfect example is against Mileena. Using GC against her is a complete waste of time.

Overall
Not hating on regular Augers but I've been running Icequake Microburst Auger Lunge, and pretty much been on a tear with Frost pretty surprisingly. Kotal is a pain still though. I just feel like Ice Auger just does something everything else in her kit does but worse. OTher kbs are better, other zoning options are pretty much better, and compared to Microburst as a combo extender, you can't switch sides. Less options for setting up her armor break and I'm pretty sure damage with Ice Auger has a lower potential then Microburst except in very few mid screen air to air situations. But I'd rather convert any hits during the scramble mid screen into auger lunge anyway to load up the KB if I could prefererably.

R.I.P. CORE TRAP

Core overload? Might as well banned it with trap this move is beyond situational.

Axe.......just.......ugh.....

And well we all know what happened to bombs with the new knockdown speed >_>

Get back at me, definitely wonder what others feel about my thoughts on Frost's Kit. I've used her pretty much ever since season 2 and haven't looked back. I definitely put in work with NRS' Ophan Child lol

Glory to the Cyber-LinKuei
 

Vhozite

Jade Worshipper
I think the reality Is that there isn’t really a 100% correct answer...which is a good thing! It means Frost has multiple viable options, which makes her deeper than some other characters.

The big reasons I use Ice Auger is its occasionally better than microburst in combos where you don’t want to knock the other person down. Often I’ll keep the other guy standing so they don’t get access to wake up options and Auger leaves you more + than Burst. Burst usually leaves you +7 where Auger leaves you +9 and in other combos +11. The second hit of microburst can also whiff in certain situations.

That said I’m always open to other options, so I definitely think this is a good discussion to have.

Edit: I’d use Core Overload if it didn’t go away when you get hit. The amped version could be a cool defensive option that forces the other guy to eventually get off you but right now you end up getting finnesed out of an offensive bar by a stray d1. Even without amp shenanigans the damage buff is pretty minuscule AND doesn’t last very long.

Edit 2: LOL you also lose overload if you throw them or land a KB...NRS plz
 
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