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Frost General Discussion

projectzero00

nomnomnom
I'm impatiently waiting for the patch to see whether she becomes viable at all. Right now i've spent more time with her than my 2 secondaries combined and still get beaten by scrubs online. I've spent half the time training with Noob and online ratio of wins/losses consist of Noob and Frost respectively. Even if I predict my opponents correctly she's so slow and whiffy, that I can't do shit other than grab to punish my opponents' moves that are even negative. I just hope they fix her so I can use her.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Buff wishlist. Just to keep her as she's designed.

All highs hit high.
D3 hitbox adjustment so it's actually useable.
B1 13 frames so it's usable.
s2 10 frames so you can use the string. 13 frame high that leads to nothing is a bit stupid.
Give her balls close medium far and very far ranges. It's got weird black spots and whiffs up close.
Change the krushing blow requirement on bf4. Having to land 3 MB drills is excessive. Every drill in a combo gets you full punished if they roll out the. Already needs meter for combos.
S1 range increase.
I'd like A least one of her strings to catch people jumping.
 

Xzyj

Mortal
Buff wishlist. Just to keep her as she's designed.

All highs hit high.
D3 hitbox adjustment so it's actually useable.
B1 13 frames so it's usable.
s2 10 frames so you can use the string. 13 frame high that leads to nothing is a bit stupid.
Give her balls close medium far and very far ranges. It's got weird black spots and whiffs up close.
Change the krushing blow requirement on bf4. Having to land 3 MB drills is excessive. Every drill in a combo gets you full punished if they roll out the. Already needs meter for combos.
S1 range increase.
I'd like A least one of her strings to catch people jumping.
All highs hitting high (i assume you mean hitting crouch blocking targets) is a universal problem right now and exist for multitude of characters, it's either by design for some moves and only a couple of moves will be touched or will be fixed universally
D3 is usable as a top tier anti-air in it's current state (like Kitanas d3 you see Semiij use a lot), it's not the best poke in poke-wars due to it's range but it does an alright job but it's mostly a great anti-air
B1 - you want it to be faster but you don't touch the biggest problem with the move, the fact that 3rd hit is neutral duckable by a lot of characters while it's mid, on female targets it can whiff even on duck-blocking characters, and this last hit is what i would use 100% of the time instead of DF2 right now to be safe because it's -2 and gives you perfect distance to continue playing at Frost's preferable distance
S2 - you can still use this string occasionally in combos for more stability, and 22 is +5 on block so it has it's uses, it's just not your usual s2 for a lot of characters
S1 range increase would be good but you can play around it with dash S1 punishes most of the times
S3 catches people jumping just fine, it has a ton of active frames or you can as well just wait for them to jump and do 43 into drills as a punish for AA, or wait and D3, dash 13~ender for a punish, or you can even AA S1 them

For me it seems like people really try to play her like any other character and then think she's awful while a lot of her moves have other good uses, and she needs different adjustments from what people think they want/she needs
Right now the biggest problem is B121 whiffing issues on last hit, B32 whiffing issues on second hit and that's about it, other things you can touch mostly to tinker with her being better/worse (for example speeding up B1 will definitely help her but it's not something absolutely necessary for her to play her game as she does atm)
I would love an option to check people after a poke with something decent besides B4, other poke, walk back or throw, but since other characters can do a high string to jail on poke hit, maybe they could also make that work somehow with S1 for us? would change the need for B1 to be less than 16 frames and will allow easier time in poke wars
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
All highs hitting high (i assume you mean hitting crouch blocking targets) is a universal problem right now and exist for multitude of characters, it's either by design for some moves and only a couple of moves will be touched or will be fixed universally
I hope it's not by design lol

D3 is usable as a top tier anti-air in it's current state (like Kitanas d3 you see Semiij use a lot), it's not the best poke in poke-wars due to it's range but it does an alright job but it's mostly a great anti-air
I wanted to use it as an AA because it reminded me of Ermac's AA from MKX. But I couldnt find a follow up that would lead to more than 140 dmg. So at this point I just uppercut. What do you do as a follow up to D3 AA?

B1 - you want it to be faster but you don't touch the biggest problem with the move, the fact that 3rd hit is neutral duckable by a lot of characters while it's mid, on female targets it can whiff even on duck-blocking characters, and this last hit is what i would use 100% of the time instead of DF2 right now to be safe because it's -2 and gives you perfect distance to continue playing at Frost's preferable distance
The last hit whiff is an issue for sure. But B1 itself is too slow to do anything else. She gets poked constantly even if its her turn because her mids in general are too slow. It would be a great punishing tool as B1~Microburst or even after blocking someones poke

S2 - you can still use this string occasionally in combos for more stability, and 22 is +5 on block so it has it's uses, it's just not your usual s2 for a lot of characters
I would add that a pretty good punish is S2~Microburst

S1 range increase would be good but you can play around it with dash S1 punishes most of the times
Im honestly sick of hearing this. "Just dash in" why should I.... The range of this move should be able to hit consistently. Scorpion teleports to your right, you dont need to dash in to punish with S1. He teleports to the left, you need to dash in. It's stupid. More often than not you need to dash in while I dont know anybody else in the cast that is forced to do this. At least it definitely isnt the norm. And we can't say she is such a high tier character that she needs to have this obstacle...

I would love an option to check people after a poke with something decent besides B4, other poke, walk back or throw, but since other characters can do a high string to jail on poke hit, maybe they could also make that work somehow with S1 for us? would change the need for B1 to be less than 16 frames and will allow easier time in poke wars
Agreed. Shes really bad when pressured because she has very few tools to get out of it
 

trufenix

bye felicia
S2 is 13 frames and if you miss the timing you are dead. Scorp amp teleport is -14, you need perfect frame timing to punish it constantly. At this point I dont even bother, I just uppercut.

S1 needs to be fixed so you can hit something.
I suck but I wholeheartedly second this, never ever ever punish with s2. Not until they fix it or speed it up.
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
S2 is 13 frames and if you miss the timing you are dead. Scorp amp teleport is -14, you need perfect frame timing to punish it constantly. At this point I dont even bother, I just uppercut.

S1 needs to be fixed so you can hit something.
Oh shit I thought it was 10f for some reason, nvm lol
 

Wigy

There it is...
I've started ending midscreen combos from 344 or 13 burst starters in 43 db2b.

You can dash in then either b22 meaty or walk back whiff punish roll/wakeups

Ending in b32d1 43 db2. The orb will hit them just as they stand up and punish U2. Will give you plenty of time to punish a roll and spaces perfectly for b22

Blade spin is obviously better in the corner but midscreen, especially against zoners you Wana stay close in.
 
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haketh

Champion
Im honestly sick of hearing this. "Just dash in" why should I.... The range of this move should be able to hit consistently. Scorpion teleports to your right, you dont need to dash in to punish with S1. He teleports to the left, you need to dash in. It's stupid. More often than not you need to dash in while I dont know anybody else in the cast that is forced to do this. At least it definitely isnt the norm. And we can't say she is such a high tier character that she needs to have this obstacle...
Just do 22, 344, or B12 for the punish then? It's not exactly hard to get the timing for a 2xBurst AMP punish on Scorpion Teleport.
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
Just do 22, 344, or B12 for the punish then? It's not exactly hard to get the timing for a 2xBurst AMP punish on Scorpion Teleport.
22 doesnt combo into Burst because it pushes the opponent too far. 2~Burst is a better option but it is still a 13f start up which is hit and miss online. 344 has the same issue as 12. The range of S3 is trash so it isnt consistent. For example you can punish Sub's overhead axe and kick strings but not his iceball since you are out of range. B1 has a 16f startup, whatever you are punishing is very tight. Sure it's doable but unnecessary frustration tbh
 

haketh

Champion
22 doesnt combo into Burst because it pushes the opponent too far. 2~Burst is a better option but it is still a 13f start up which is hit and miss online. 344 has the same issue as 12. The range of S3 is trash so it isnt consistent. For example you can punish Sub's overhead axe and kick strings but not his iceball since you are out of range. B1 has a 16f startup, whatever you are punishing is very tight. Sure it's doable but unnecessary frustration tbh
Oh yeah on Sub shit is mad awkward but I haven't had many other issues punishing anything else with 344 even when they're on P1 side.

I think people gotta get over that frustration though because B21xBust AMP does a lot of damage on it's own. Getting that timing down for anything I can punish it with has been crucial.
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
Oh yeah on Sub shit is mad awkward but I haven't had many other issues punishing anything else with 344 even when they're on P1 side.

I think people gotta get over that frustration though because B21xBust AMP does a lot of damage on it's own. Getting that timing down for anything I can punish it with has been crucial.
hmm Ill try it out more then. Yea B12 into burst is a good option when it lands. Subs slide is -16f on block and your B1 comes out in 13f. Its tight but worth it if you get it consistently
 

Wigy

There it is...
hmm Ill try it out more then. Yea B12 into burst is a good option when it lands. Subs slide is -16f on block and your B1 comes out in 13f. Its tight but worth it if you get it consistently
B1 is 16 frames man.
 
Reactions: JSF

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
I've got to the point where I just wait for them to poke after being negative and then grab them
Her entire game plan is to try to whiff punish, which because very hard against characters who also have great spacing tools (Baraka, Skarlet). She cant deal with pressure when she is the one applying pressure, a crouch block will stop everything she has. So you are reduced to grabbing and gimmicks.

I was playing against a Baraka the other day, I would hit confirm a poke and would try to do a B1 follow-up since he was poking like crazy and he would still catch me 7/10. It's too tight, it's too frustrating
 

Wigy

There it is...
Her entire game plan is to try to whiff punish, which because very hard against characters who also have great spacing tools (Baraka, Skarlet). She cant deal with pressure when she is the one applying pressure, a crouch block will stop everything she has. So you are reduced to grabbing and gimmicks.

I was playing against a Baraka the other day, I would hit confirm a poke and would try to do a B1 follow-up since he was poking like crazy and he would still catch me 7/10. It's too tight, it's too frustrating
If shes Forced to come in on the person her neutral is terrible, b22 is awful on whiff and you can jump over it very easy. Up close she is one of the worst characters in the game.

Her counter zoning can be decent but requires a lot more reads and is best done on a life lead cause one bad read and you're in the shit.

I don't even use f2 anymore aside from punishes. Why that can be crouch blocked it a total mystery. It's useless
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
I don't even use f2 anymore aside from punishes. Why that can be crouch blocked it a total mystery. It's useless
The fucking hitboxes bro. I can't deal. Shit players getting away with stupid shit just because the hits don't land for some mysterious reason
 
To win with her you have to sweat like crazy in almost every single mu of the game. This is the character, can't change her. She's not really good mid range, her zoning is ok but lackluster, ok damage, atrocious buttons, and more people realize her gameplan more she'll struggle for now. But, she's the kind of character that you play for love.
 

vegeta

Saiyan Prince
To win with her you have to sweat like crazy in almost every single mu of the game. This is the character, can't change her. She's not really good mid range, her zoning is ok but lackluster, ok damage, atrocious buttons, and more people realize her gameplan more she'll struggle for now. But, she's the kind of character that you play for love.
Oh she CAN be changed. We love her yes but some of us want to compete too and she just doesn’t do it outright