Frost General Discussion

[Kindred]

Don't be afraid to use her sweep, it's 12 frame startup that is only -6 on block with some pushback. Lows are basically mids but better. And not every character has a 6 frame normal so you could definitely use B1 and B3 in a lot of matchups. And while we're at it, she has good range on d1 and with the walk speeds of MK11, you can do more than just go into pressure.

I think as I get more familiar with her and get her timing down, Ill have more confidence going for those slower moves. Im starting to use B3 more but its not a habit I want to get into since I think it -16 on block.

Also, I dont know what you guys think but Im really liking the Dive kick + bomb combo for special moves. The dive kick gives great mobility and bombs provide good space control

 

[Marinjuana]

DF2 is her Blade Spin and it's a safe high that does nice chip and has an amplify. These are the normals and string that will jail into it on block. So if they wanted to make a read and let go of block to duck the DF2 high, they couldn't do it on these moves:

3
4
B1
B2

13
B12
22
B22
B32
43

Only thing of real interest is that 344~DF2 will whiff. (Although they will be expecting an overhead.) So for the most part, you can end your strings in Blade Spin with no issue despite it being a high. Have fun.

 

[Pronto]

I'm not at home right now so I can't test it, but is it the case that her jump frames are better than a lot of other characters (fast startup)? She's a small character (who gets smaller during her jump) and she reaches the peak of her jump seemingly faster than others. I wonder if she'd be able to jump out of some gaps that other characters can't and if this might be a way to compensate for her slower pokes?

Reminds me of Deathstroke in IGAU – he could jump out of pressure that other characters couldn't.

Again, not at home right now so I can't test it – I might be blowing smoke out of my ass.

 

[Ck AeroVoid]

PROS:

• Her range
• Her dmg is decent
• Her tools are good for the most part

CONS

• Her frames suck. Her fastest poke is 9f. And when she confirms the poke, shes at a 10f advantage but most of her strings are high so the opponent can just poke back or her mids are too slow to jail. Shes punishable on all strings that can have a KB combo or a pop up (although I think that's by design).
• Her Bomb, so far is pretty bad IMO. It only freezes in specific situation and has a small vertical range. In MKX, you can throw a bomb, jump in kick and the opponent would be frozen in the air. Now, he has to be very close to the ground on the way down. Also the lack of a OH starter means that her setups are hard since ppl just block low. And if you throw a bomb in the corner and grab them, that doesnt work either. If you do throw a bomb across the map, theres no way to get to them fast enough to capitalize since movement is so slow. In a perferct world, you would have the Dive kick equipped but its not a tourney variation. Basically her bomb setups, SO FAR, dont really seem difficult for opponents to block, but it does keep them on their toes.
• The lack of an OH starter makes me sad (but again I understand they want to avoid that so its fine)

I still love her and Im still labbing her so who knows, all of my cons might dissapear as we get more familiar with the game

ya just gotta play smart and punish!

 

[scarsunseen]

edit: whoops wrong thread.

 

[Kindred]

So I finally found her most damaging AA!
You think her D3 has potential because its reminiscent of MKX ermac's godlike AA of the same name and can have combo potential, but Nay Sir!
You think her S3 has potential because that range is a beauty and it could lead to combos, but Nay Sir!

It's D2. yup just a regular D2 that does 140 dmg lol

 

[scarsunseen]

bomb glitch. looks like she's shitting out her own head.

 

[Law Hero]

How are you guys feeling about her krushing blows so far?

 

[Kindred]

How are you guys feeling about her krushing blows so far?

Honestly, my main gripe is with the B2212(KB) midscreen, which combos into garbage

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

One thing to note is that as far as standing strings go 344 gives you the best advantage on hit. So if you are looking to leave them standing for a combo you can finish with that instead of whatever juggle, do a slight step forward and jail standing 1. This gives you a clean strike throw mixup which is pretty nice. Obviously you give up damage but it removes the ability to breakaway, if you guess wrong and do 132 on block you are plus at a nice range, and if you guess right you obviously are going to get more damage overall.

 

[SHAOLIN]

Since i'm maining Frost & Sub, i thought it will be cool to open discussion about this particular matchup. With Frost's Ice Machine variation I do feel like she completely dominates in 2 major aspect of this game against Sub-Zero :
Mid-Screen/ Neutral & Zoning.

Zoning - Because Sub-Zero has only single projectile moves in his arsenal and one that doesn't go full screen, we as frost mains completely dominate this area when it comes to Ice Machine with inclusion of Glacier Calving that destroy a single projectile at a time and with zoning tools that control the air and ground.

___
Neutral - We out range Sub with B2, F2, and B4. He does have his own arsenal of good range normals but I still feel like we edge him out in this department.

Up Close - This where our 9F D1 comes into affect. Sub has a 6F D1, yes you heard me right. On type of that most of strings are -8 or less and when we get to his command normals it's + 4 to -6. So yes to all you frost mains we've live and die by our defense; Get Up attacks, Get Up rolls, Flawless Block, etc.

So, let me know if i'm off-base or this shit actually makes sense lol

 

[I_plaguedoctor_I]

Is cryogenic crown worth it? I love the idea of it

 

[Kindred]

Is cryogenic crown worth it? I love the idea of it

The ice bomb? Im still getting used to the names lol

If yes, then honestly, I say fuck it.
Ive been trying all week to make the setups work in a real fight and they barely do.
Setups that would have worked in MKX with CSZ dont work here because the range of the bomb is so small its stupid.
Perhaps the worst thing is that it takes 2 slots and it sucks.

I moved on to the other tournament variation because now I can have a very fast advancing mid (the augers), an anti-zoning tool (the ice shield) and the hard knockdown projectiles.

 

[I_plaguedoctor_I]

The ice bomb? Im still getting used to the names lol

If yes, then honestly, I say fuck it.
Ive been trying all week to make the setups work in a real fight and they barely do.
Setups that would have worked in MKX with CSZ dont work here because the range of the bomb is so small its stupid.
Perhaps the worst thing is that it takes 2 slots and it sucks.

I moved on to the other tournament variation because now I can have a very fast advancing mid (the augers), an anti-zoning tool (the ice shield) and the hard knockdown projectiles.

Playing online, I had some luck with it. After every combo I would just immediately throw it out up close and the opponent has no choice but to respect it. I love the idea of it, I just don't know how viable it is at high-level play

 

[Kindred]

Playing online, I had some luck with it. After every combo I would just immediately throw it out up close and the opponent has no choice but to respect it. I love the idea of it, I just don't know how viable it is at high-level play

Yea that's it, I find I get lucky whenever I actually catch ppl with it lol
If I throw it out and grab them at a slightly off space, they dont get hit. Also the lack of a overehead starter makes setups even harder. And if they do jump, your highest consistent damage is an uppercut. Its very restricted

 

[ClumsyShadow]

her defense ( lacking decent mid ) and frames suck so bad ... she feels like an incomplete character '' in comparison to '' other well rounded characters like Erron black, Jax,Kabal etc.
hoping for a fix .

 

[Marinjuana]

Frost's F2 is awesome. 19 frame startup, 0 on block with 8 active frame with nice hit advantage. It's a fast moving high that goes about 60% of fullscreen distance. If you space it right on the edge of it's range then it can come out plus on block. This move is a very good neutral check, it allows her to maybe punish projectile startup like any charge move could and it's very good at punishing Fatal Blow attacks with knockback, which is useful when you are playing in Frost-Byte and lack the Auger Lunge for the same purpose.

It is a high though, and it's full combo punishable if they duck it. That said it won't get hit by D2 KBs as she is airbourne during the duration of the attack.

 

[Law Hero]

Frost's F2 is awesome. 19 frame startup, 0 on block with 8 active frame with nice hit advantage. It's a fast moving high that goes about 60% of fullscreen distance. If you space it right on the edge of it's range then it can come out plus on block. This move is a very good neutral check, it allows her to maybe punish projectile startup like any charge move could and it's very good at punishing Fatal Blow attacks with knockback, which is useful when you are playing in Frost-Byte and lack the Auger Lunge for the same purpose.

It is a high though, and it's full combo punishable if they duck it. That said it won't get hit by D2 KBs as she is airbourne during the duration of the attack.

I think it's okay. I've become a bit disillusioned with it though. Against opponents that know the match up, I can almost never use it. There's zero reason to not duck against Frost. Perhaps at a super high level it's different, but I think it's more dangerous for Frost. Even if they only block it, you're still in a bad spot since I don't think she's very good at point blank range. Maybe I'm being overly negative, or just don't know what I'm talking about, but I don't think it's as good as it originally seemed to me.

Spoiler

I'd rather have Erron's dropkick.

 

[Outworld Slasher]

I know this thread is mainly about her moveset, frames, etc but not sure where else to post this to have some character specific discussion.

As much as I love the story mode, is anyone else really kind of disappointed with what they did for Frost as a character? Her design is amazing, her voice acting is wonderful, and yet she didn't really serve much of a purpose at all, or become more than just one dimensionally angry and egotistical in the plot. Her quick to hatred, fragile ego, and hot-headed attitude are some of her defining traits sure, but they really should've either expanded on those traits or given her some more; I'm not exactly implying she should've turned a new leaf or anything, but they could've definitely justified her hatred for Kuai Liang a bit more, or given her turbulent egotism some more humanity and understanding. They humanized and really developed so many of these characters amazingly in story mode and in their arcade endings by giving them some pathos and humility, yet they couldn't do anything to ground Frost being a moody teenager? I love everything about her in this game, so it only makes the fact she quite literally has no development in the slightest hurt, even more so considering she seemed to just be chosen for the sake of having one 3D character on base; who we'll probably not see for a very long time again considering NRS will probably choose someone else for MK12. What sucks even more is that she won't even get anything in the comics either, since there won't BE ANY comics according to Shawn Kittelson; who dropped an amazing opportunity to develop her previously in the MK X comics after the cage fight as well.

Now you may say they had no room to focus on her given the length of the story already, but after thinking about it.. THEY DID! They had a PERFECT opportunity to make a villain chapter that not only would've served to develop Frost but also another wasted character; Cetrion. In their intro dialogues together, both of them speak of an offscreen event where they attacked and destroyed Raiden's Sky Temple, and actually apparently managed to kill FUJIN of all people by double teaming on him. Why the fuck was this not included in the story? A joint character chapter for Frost & Cetrion would've been OUSTANDING! Their cutscene dialogue together would've served as a great way to give them more character and really driven home some of Cetrion's hesitance to assist Kronika in the first place, while also exploring Frost more and maybe giving her another trait than just "I hate Sub-Zero. Please notice me." in her interactions with Cetrion. What makes this even more baffling is that Fujin is supposedly DLC as well, meaning they probably had a render, moveset, and voice for him at least partially ready to make for a great fight in that never-to-be chapter. The only problem I see with this is the fact there isn't a Sky Temple map in the game, but they definitely could have re-used assets of the X one, or done it in a cutscene as they had for the Pyramid of Argus and Deadpool in Raiden's chapter.


Sorry if this was long and a bit silly, but I just had to put this somewhere in my growing disappointment. Frost always seems to get the short end of the stick wherever she has the luck to be included!

 

[MK Led]

I don't think it's as good as it originally seemed to me.

I think at the very least it’s good for punishing projectiles and long range attacks with long start ups, you can definitely do it on reaction to some things. Also works well as a very long range anti-air/trip guard. As it’s 0 on block at worst I don’t think it’s bad to throw out if your opponent is going to block it. You just have to check them with enough amplified kryo-stances, long range b2s and auger lunges to make them think that always neutral ducking to avoid highs isn’t a good idea (it is, but you could at least condition people to be scared of doing it sometimes haha).

 

[Edmund]

I am gonna play her some when i get home this weekend and see what I think of her

 

[Histrionik]

Did the same in the Kitana thread. So posting a synopsis of my hand written notes here on hopes we get a discussion going.

B22 seems to hail into DF2. I see someone else posted all the things that jail into DF2 but this is the one I noticed and use frequently due to the normal’s range.

D1 is my poke of choice. It has a range extension as compared to most of the cast and compliments the range of her other normals really well. Looking at you B22. B22 is a little awkward as it cannot be chained into DB4 [MB] from max range. This is unfortunate as giving full combo from outside sweep range would be sweet.

Combo damage seems really good. And we have a lot of safe-on-block strings. Standard combo seems to be B32D1, B12, BF2. Can use basically any of the other strings cancelled into DB4 [MB] to get really good damage.

Her BF3 Fireball, particularly the MB version, feels pretty strong. 3 different ranges for DB2 Fireball are good for space control, too. And a projectile shield? Is there zoning potential here? Am I crazy?

No OH combo starter sucks. Really wish we had something here. Or at least better frames of the ranged stuff so we could better utilize D1, Throw, Low conditioning. I’m feeling a bit of an identity crisis. So many things being safe-on-block make me think she’s a rushdown character, but slow starting frames are contradicting this. An OH starter fixes this problem and gives her mixup potential.

I almost feel like optimal play style right now is “Stay just inside sweep range. Use Throw, Block Strings, and D1 to open people up. Land a combo for a third of their health. Rinse and repeat.” Which isn’t bad. It seems like she’s in that same weird spot as a good chunk of the cast: having a lot of contradictory tools and not accounting for one cohesive play style.

 

[Kindred]

B22 seems to hail into DF2. I see someone else posted all the things that jail into DF2 but this is the one I noticed and use frequently due to the normal’s range.

I have to start using this!

D1 is my poke of choice. It has a range extension as compared to most of the cast and compliments the range of her other normals really well. Looking at you B22. B22 is a little awkward as it cannot be chained into DB4 [MB] from max range. This is unfortunate as giving full combo from outside sweep range would be sweet.

What about the faster D3? (8f instead of the D1's 9f and has quite the reach too and is -5 instead of the -6 of D1 on block)

Combo damage seems really good. And we have a lot of safe-on-block strings. Standard combo seems to be B32D1, B12, BF2. Can use basically any of the other strings cancelled into DB4 [MB] to get really good damage.

IMO Depends more on the variation. I feel Ice Machines combos are much better than frost-byte

Her BF3 Fireball, particularly the MB version, feels pretty strong. 3 different ranges for DB2 Fireball are good for space control, too. And a projectile shield? Is there zoning potential here? Am I crazy?

Zoning potential, depends against who. Kano's knives come at you way to fast and skarlett has many more zoning options. But I think she can outzone many of the cast

I almost feel like optimal play style right now is “Stay just inside sweep range. Use Throw, Block Strings, and D1 to open people up. Land a combo for a third of their health. Rinse and repeat.” Which isn’t bad. It seems like she’s in that same weird spot as a good chunk of the cast: having a lot of contradictory tools and not accounting for one cohesive play style.

Well said.

 

[Law Hero]

Did the same in the Kitana thread. So posting a synopsis of my hand written notes here on hopes we get a discussion going.

B22 seems to hail into DF2. I see someone else posted all the things that jail into DF2 but this is the one I noticed and use frequently due to the normal’s range.

D1 is my poke of choice. It has a range extension as compared to most of the cast and compliments the range of her other normals really well. Looking at you B22. B22 is a little awkward as it cannot be chained into DB4 [MB] from max range. This is unfortunate as giving full combo from outside sweep range would be sweet.

Combo damage seems really good. And we have a lot of safe-on-block strings. Standard combo seems to be B32D1, B12, BF2. Can use basically any of the other strings cancelled into DB4 [MB] to get really good damage.

Her BF3 Fireball, particularly the MB version, feels pretty strong. 3 different ranges for DB2 Fireball are good for space control, too. And a projectile shield? Is there zoning potential here? Am I crazy?

No OH combo starter sucks. Really wish we had something here. Or at least better frames of the ranged stuff so we could better utilize D1, Throw, Low conditioning. I’m feeling a bit of an identity crisis. So many things being safe-on-block make me think she’s a rushdown character, but slow starting frames are contradicting this. An OH starter fixes this problem and gives her mixup potential.

I almost feel like optimal play style right now is “Stay just inside sweep range. Use Throw, Block Strings, and D1 to open people up. Land a combo for a third of their health. Rinse and repeat.” Which isn’t bad. It seems like she’s in that same weird spot as a good chunk of the cast: having a lot of contradictory tools and not accounting for one cohesive play style.

Nice synopsis. I don't think she needs an OH starter though, just something to punish those that try to duck all day and night. Short hop 2 just doesn't do it for me, in my experience. If not that, it would at least be nice if she had a low special like Kabal's ground saw or low hook. That way you could attempt a high risk, low reward mixup at the end of b+2212 or standing 3.

Lastly, I know it's been mentioned before, but punishing with her is really difficult right now. Feels like I need to lab every specific situation because she's either too slow or out of range on most strings/specials. This isn't a character flaw, just a bit annoying as of this moment.

 

[Law Hero]

Sorry for the double post, but do you guys every use the KB Drill Auger ever? If it's good, let me know, but I just can't seem to justify wasting so much meter at the end of combos for just a little extra damage/carry. Especially because you need that meter to actually combo.