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Match-up Discussion Flash Matchup Discussion

BoricuaHeat

PSN:KrocoCola
Yeah.. You're like one of the only people I actually have fun with playing online...

It gets hype. We were going back and forth between Arrow and Flash. Even ended up tied at the end 19-19.
I share the sentiment! I might even start recording the matches for the video thread, also need to improve my connection to take it to other members on TYM.

@FrozenG3oX Although I am in no position to state match ups, the obvious ones are as follows: Bane, Cyborg, Deathstroke and Lex Luthor, all of these ranging from 6-4 to quite possibly 7-3 with the main idea that Flash can just shut down their game plans. Bane cannot abuse armor due to our strings being so fast. One blocked fireball and that's one free dash up for Flash versus Cyborg. Deathstroke guns can all be punished by charge. Lex Luthor can't use armor as effectively due to Flash's very nature of his game plan (fast normals, quick get in tool, normals don't whiff on Lex).

@Solo_ His TYM names is actually just @Jim, convenient haha.
 

FrozenG3oX

<3 gimmicks
Ok, can someone explain to me the Flash vs Aquaman match up in depth. I want to know what are my options as the flash player.
 

BoricuaHeat

PSN:KrocoCola
Ok, can someone explain to me the Flash vs Aquaman match up in depth. I want to know what are my options as the flash player.
I can't really say much for the Aquaman match up but one thing I don't see many Flash players do is punish his trident rush with flying uppercut on block, so apply that to your game. Try using sonic pound combos for a chance to avoid his trait, real helpful for landing trait combos with Flash. Lastly react to his overheads, their not really fast and people seem to get hit by them often (myself included), a lot of online warriors buffer either scoop or trident rush after his overhead so punish with flying uppercut alright.
 

FrozenG3oX

<3 gimmicks
I can't really say much for the Aquaman match up but one thing I don't see many Flash players do is punish his trident rush with flying uppercut on block, so apply that to your game. Try using sonic pound combos for a chance to avoid his trait, real helpful for landing trait combos with Flash. Lastly react to his overheads, their not really fast and people seem to get hit by them often (myself included), a lot of online warriors buffer either scoop or trident rush after his overhead so punish with flying uppercut alright.
i think you can also punish aquamans b2, its -10 on block
 

SEV

Noob
Good showing at GGA @Jim. Try using B22F3 to counter DD's armor. If he blocks it the stagger will put you at a safe distance to make a read on his next move to get in, or if he lets it hit him so you're closer, you can back dash out of D1 range.
 
Reactions: Jim

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
I share the sentiment! I might even start recording the matches for the video thread, also need to improve my connection to take it to other members on TYM..
I think the lag is just the nature of online. I didn't find our konnection that bad from what I understand online to be... Then again I'm not an online player and don't play online as much as others..

Distance is also a factor, like online against So Cal people is pretty good for me. What state are you in exactly?
 

BoricuaHeat

PSN:KrocoCola
I think the lag is just the nature of online. I didn't find our konnection that bad from what I understand online to be... Then again I'm not an online player and don't play online as much as others..

Distance is also a factor, like online against So Cal people is pretty good for me. What state are you in exactly?
Puerto Rico, distance factor too strong. True about lag, even playing people from PR I get lag.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
i think you can also punish aquamans b2, its -10 on block
Yeah, that's why they usually kancel it into special like Boricua said since against most characters Trident Rush is safe... And B2U3 is very minus. Doesn't feel -22 like the game says but I'm pretty sure you kan punish it with the torpedo...
 

BoricuaHeat

PSN:KrocoCola
Wow.. That's farther than I thought.... lol. The konnection wasn't really bad konsidering the distance...
I should expect the worst when it comes to online play haha. I should have it updated by March once I get some cash rolling in, get me some of that rich boy connection goodness.
 

Solo_Is_The_Name

Flash In Training.
I share the sentiment! I might even start recording the matches for the video thread, also need to improve my connection to take it to other members on TYM.

@FrozenG3oX Although I am in no position to state match ups, the obvious ones are as follows: Bane, Cyborg, Deathstroke and Lex Luthor, all of these ranging from 6-4 to quite possibly 7-3 with the main idea that Flash can just shut down their game plans. Bane cannot abuse armor due to our strings being so fast. One blocked fireball and that's one free dash up for Flash versus Cyborg. Deathstroke guns can all be punished by charge. Lex Luthor can't use armor as effectively due to Flash's very nature of his game plan (fast normals, quick get in tool, normals don't whiff on Lex).

@Solo_ His TYM names is actually just @Jim, convenient haha.
Wow this didn't show up on my alert thnx I edit my older post with his name.
 

SEV

Noob
So long as Flash plays patiently and is mindful, he should be able to make it in on his zoning easily enough without taking too much chip. We can deal with Escrima reasonably well, but have to play more cautiously when in staff stance because you out range us, and respect your pressure and wait to interrupt an overhead attempt, or until you go negative. Neither of us can really pressure on HKD, so long as NW in staff stance, and were both each other's bitch in the corner. Midscreen though, there is a good neutral game favoring neither character, and both characters have tools to deal with each other reasonably well on read. I agree with 5-5, but if there is a point to be made toward either side, I'd say Flash would have a slight edge.
 

Chongo

Dead Kings Rise
So long as Flash plays patiently and is mindful, he should be able to make it in on his zoning easily enough without taking too much chip. We can deal with Escrima reasonably well, but have to play more cautiously when in staff stance because you out range us, and respect your pressure and wait to interrupt an overhead attempt, or until you go negative. Neither of us can really pressure on HKD, so long as NW in staff stance, and were both each other's bitch in the corner. Midscreen though, there is a good neutral game favoring neither character, and both characters have tools to deal with each other reasonably well on read. I agree with 5-5, but if there is a point to be made toward either side, I'd say Flash would have a slight edge.
Agreed. Although if you ever get hit with 1f2 just tech roll and you're out of nw pressure

I discovered that if I do staff spin stance change backdash, flash can b22 and I have to deal with it, or he can do sonic pound to punish me I think.

Also if you want to pressure NW on wakeup in escrima just jump. EF doesn't handle jumps really well and you can beat out flip kick with a j1 after the invincibility wears off (when he starts coming down)
 

SEV

Noob
Agreed. Although if you ever get hit with 1f2 just tech roll and you're out of nw pressure

I discovered that if I do staff spin stance change backdash, flash can b22 and I have to deal with it, or he can do sonic pound to punish me I think.

Also if you want to pressure NW on wakeup in escrima just jump. EF doesn't handle jumps really well and you can beat out flip kick with a j1 after the invincibility wears off (when he starts coming down)
Solid tip on the tech roll and SP punish, crruently I use b22 after SS, but yeah Escrima WUs are no problem.

Also be wary of following up a close range, meter burn ground spike with jump in pressure, as we can punish with FU before you can connect, and this seems to be a set up all NWs use, but it doesn't work in this MU. Would love some games sometime, don't have any solid NW practice, although I have tons of MU experience.
 

Chongo

Dead Kings Rise
Solid tip on the tech roll and SP punish, crruently I use b22 after SS, but yeah Escrima WUs are no problem.

Also be wary of following up a close range, meter burn ground spike with jump in pressure, as we can punish with FU before you can connect, and this seems to be a set up all NWs use, but it doesn't work in this MU. Would love some games sometime, don't have any solid NW practice, although I have tons of MU experience.
I'm on PSN, add me Hi_Im_Free

I play @Zyphox and @AK Harold as much as I can and I'm willing to say I know the MU, but practice always helps.
 

SEV

Noob
Ok, can someone explain to me the Flash vs Aquaman match up in depth. I want to know what are my options as the flash player.
A little late to the game on this one. So for neutral game you want to play somewhere between just outside of his max range and LC punish range. So long as you're close enough, you can punish all zoning with LC, so that's not a factor in this MU. AM out ranges us so we need to be cautious getting in. For AM's pressure, you need to be able to identify whether he is going to go low or overhead off of F1 on his pseudo 50/50. Know that he's + on B2 but - on B21(you can D2 check follow up pressure after blocking B21), and - on all of his overhead strings. You can back dash his pressure on block if you want to make space but if he forward dashes with you, or goes overhead for the range he can punish, so be mindful with reads. Trident rush can be punished with FU, and so long as they don't back dash you can get a B22 off. Scoop can be punished with B2. B22F3 will whiff if he crouched, so that's a bust, and sometimes B22 will whiff, but not consistently. The main struggle with this MU is playing around AM's trait, and so long as it is up, no MB kicks as it is full combo punishable, and will be favoring SP. AM effectively can get out of two different combos during one uptime if opened up quick enough in succession. So you have to plan on opening him up at least once before spending meter. A good way to learn how to do this is by going for your pseudo, meterless vortex initially and as you get more MU experience you will find ways to work around it. On HKD he is your bitch, and you can stuff all of his wake ups, so learn how and go HAM. Oh, and don't jump against the King of the D2. I'd say 5-5 again, but its an easier fight for AM. An argument could be made for 4-6, possibly.
 
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FrozenG3oX

<3 gimmicks
A little late to the game on this one. So for neutral game you want to play somewhere between just outside of his max range and LC punish range. So long as you're close enough, you can punish all zoning with LC, so that's not a factor in this MU. AM out ranges us so we need to be cautious getting in. For AM's pressure, you need to be able to identify whether he is going to go low or overhead off of F1 on his pseudo 50/50. Know that he's + on B2 but - on B21(you can D2 check follow up pressure after blocking B21), and - on all of his overhead strings. You can back dash his pressure on block if you want to make space but if he forward dashes with you, or goes overhead for the range he can punish, so be mindful with reads. Trident rush can be punished with FU, and so long as they don't back dash you can get a B22 off. Scoop can be punished with B2. B22F3 will whiff if he crouched, so that's a bust, and sometimes B22 will whiff, but not consistently. The main struggle with this MU is playing around AM's trait, and so long as it is up, no MB kicks as it is full combo punishable, and will be favoring SP. AM effectively can get out of two different combos during one uptime if opened up quick enough in succession. So you have to plan on opening him up at least once before spending meter. A good way to learn how to do this is by going for your pseudo, meterless vortex initially and as you get more MU experience you will find ways to work around it. On HKD he is your bitch, and you can stuff all of his wake ups, so learn how and go HAM. Oh, and don't jump against the King of the D2. I'd say 5-5 again, but its an easier fight for AM. An argument could be made for 4-6, possibly.
aquaman is not plus on b2 amd his b12 is only minus 6...he can cancel it into trident rush so that blows up flash's d2.
 

SEV

Noob
aquaman is not plus on b2 amd his b12 is only minus 6...he can cancel it into trident rush so that blows up flash's d2.
Got the order mixed up meant B1, but that's not + either but it might at well be in this MU because so long as they are spacing properly, we can not use any follow up without getting beat out by another B1(which is a consistent AM strategy), aside from a reversal FU, but that is extremely risky, but again you can back dash but that's full combo punishable if he makes the read and dashes with you or goes overhead. Also a common occurrence in the MU is to to go for follow up pressure after a blocked B12, because again, with proper spacing, the push back prevents us from doing a real follow up, and AM should wary of canceling into Trident Rush in this MU anywys, unless given a reason, because it is a guaranteed punish or opportunity to start follow up pressure. So you should be holding low anyways in anticipation for the scoop, and if it doesn't come you can check him with a D2 on read if you think he will attack, or back dash. If they aren't spacing well you can check with D1D2. You're welcome for answering your question, btw.
 
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SEV

Noob
So I see a lot of Zod's putting Flash as a bad MU, which is something I don't fully agree with. I personally think it's 5-5, possibly with a slight favor toward Zod, if anything. Sure we have the tools to work around his zoning, but at the same time he has all the tools to blow up our tools on getting in if he makes the right reads, rather than just going on auto-pilot trying to zone. Maybe Zod can't play his traditional game against us, but we lose part of our game too. The main advantages I can see for Flash in this MU is our ability to LC punish dashes on a character that is usually dash happy and can D2 his swipes on read, but at the same time we can't use B22 on him unless cornered, which is a pretty big part of our game. Just wanted to gauge how other Flash's feel about this MU currently.
 

SEV

Noob
the worst MU for flash are sinestro? superman? Green lanern still sucks??
Probably WoWo, HG, Zatanna and Zod, in my opinion at least. GL is annoying but so long as you're patient and awake, he doesn't really have any great ways to open Flash up while we walk him to the corner. And I used to think BA, but I don't think it's as bad anymore post patch, or at least as troublesome as the other four in my opinion.
 

BoricuaHeat

PSN:KrocoCola
I don't think Flash has any match ups that are that tilted in the oppositions favor. For example Zod may not allow us to use our pressure to it's fullest due to b22 whiffing, amazing dashes to get out of pressure, and having good zoning makes it infuriating to establish an offense that can mix him up. But Flash does get amazing rewards just for a touch which offsets most of the negatives we can whine about like the former.

Like stuffing wake ups, trait combos/resets, standing resets, and 50/50's anywhere just makes it hard to whine about anything really (unless it's online, in that case go nuts with the whining).