General/Other - Ferra/Torr Ferra/Torr Post-patch report

[Blewdew]

I meant the Impostor/Ruthless MU, forgot to specify, sorry.

And don't worry, not arguing that Shinnok is a problem for F/T, but I don't think that the problem is the command grab (and free damage) Impostor gets, F/T's damage is already twice as big as Shinnok's. I'll blame hellsparks and teleport.

It's all good pal.

Yes that's true. Generally f/t has problems with zoning tools that can't be absorbed by ferra. That's also a reason why I think that they Are not top 5. they are very good at the current state of the game and the damage they can do is pretty good sind they're top 10 dir sure but that buff didn't really help them in the aspects where they were lacking before. While they hit like a Truck I don't think this character should be considered top 5 while they still struggle so hard in quite a few mu's. And currently doing a guide where I talk about this a little more specific.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

it was really strong character already, and they buffed him. right now ruthless is top tier.



8-2s don't exist in this game. personally I don't even believe it's 7-3 post buffs, but that's arguable.

Ruthless/Grandmaster match up wants to have a word with you.

I don't think they were "Really strong" at launch, Ruthless was essentially Vicious without boss toss at launch, getting a PnG out was a bit hard and not really worth the effort. Vicious was the best only because of the mid toss, very fuzzyable 50/50, had some decent pokes, but R/V (still to this day) cracked hard under pressure, Vicious' command grab was and still is pretty much garbage. I can't speak for launch Lackey as i didn't play it, but the damage output was only a bit higher than vicious iirc(@Doombawkz). There's a reason (other than lack of representation) most tier lists placed them low up until late last year. Sure they may have been strong in one or two areas and in the neutral, but plenty of other characters excelled in those exact same areas, all the while having solid tools for the areas F/T lacked in, and in a game like MKX neutral doesn't last for very long. If you took away the PnG run cancel buff Ruthless' damage would only just be touching the upper ranges of meterless damage. They needed what buffs they got from launch, I still think the OH/Low launcher shouldn't have been given to Ruthless but that was NRS' decision not mine.

You do know we've been nerfed pretty bad too? DAE remember when f3 was overhead, and yes it was (I specifically remember going into a local LAN house and messing around in practice and seeing "OVERHEAD" and having my mind blown), when R/V d1 was 6(or 8, i know it was less than 10), when PnG took an entire second to recover, when Lackey d1 was +2:16Bit, or when 42+4 went full screen, when boss toss went fullscreen, when you couldn't backdash out of overhead toss, double f2 combos?

We've climbed the tier ladder a lot more than you think, but you don't make it that far without losing something. I feel like (ruthless specifically) F/T was one of the few if not only characters NRS buffed because that was how they character was intended to be played, rather than just "This isn't working as intended".

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

I meant the Impostor/Ruthless MU, forgot to specify, sorry.

And don't worry, not arguing that Shinnok is a problem for F/T, but I don't think that the problem is the command grab (and free damage) Impostor gets, F/T's damage is already twice as big as Shinnok's. I'll blame hellsparks and teleport.

Hell sparks and tricky port are bad enough, the free damage is just a slap in the face at that point.

 

[Blewdew]

Ruthless/Grandmaster match up wants to have a word with you.

While I agree with what you said Mostly I really really Really don't think gm is a 8-2 for ruthless, not even 7-3

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

While I agree with what you said Mostly I really really Really don't think gm is a 8-2 for ruthless, not even 7-3

Really?? You care to defend that. I could maybe agree on 7-3 but not anything less. Yes if Sub gets you to the corner you're gonna have a bad time (thats basically the 2 or 3 matches he takes) but F/T just shits on him every where else. Better damage, equal to or better buttons, ice ball is slow enough to stuff fullscreen on reaction, and EX ice ball is so big that ferra eats it practically anywhere on the screen, and I don't think I need to go into when Ferra meets Klone.

How often do you lose to Sub man?

 

[Blewdew]

Really?? You care to defend that. I could maybe agree on 7-3 but not anything less. Yes if Sub gets you to the corner you're gonna have a bad time (thats basically the 2 or 3 matches he takes) but F/T just shits on him every where else. Better damage, equal to or better buttons, ice ball is slow enough to stuff fullscreen on reaction, and EX ice ball is so big that ferra eats it practically anywhere on the screen, and I don't think I need to go into when Ferra meets Klone.

How often do you lose to Sub man?

I'm playing really good subs quite often. I'm not saying this is an even mu because were definitely on the winning side but 7-3 you basically shit on sub. He has a really good d4, can jump in and cross jump completly free EVERY FUCKING TIME and he can actually blow up our png pressure with clone. And yeah you need to be cornered to loose but you know how many mistakes it needs to be cornered? 1 Most likely. We definitely do good in the neutral but this doesn't mean it is a shit easy win for f/t. Next time I can Record a set if you want. Either I play really good subs or you play Really shitty ones to think it's a 8-2 lol

 

[Derptile]

Sub-Zero is a really fucked up character, but still I can't see it being anywhere near 8-2, even 7-3 is slightly suspect to me. F/T(non-lackey) definitely has better tools to fight against Sub than most of the cast, and if you're somehow able to avoid the corner than the MU(yes I know it's basically impossible) then I think it can be nearly even. Ferra Torr's buttons, damage, projectiles, and range all work pretty well for this match-up IMO.

That Shinnok MU is 8-2 though, no question. That shit literally brings back nightmares of Vanilla Shazam vs Black Adam or Superman, ooooooooh the Horrors.

 

[Blewdew]

Sub-Zero is a really fucked up character, but still I can't see it being anywhere near 8-2, even 7-3 is slightly suspect to me. F/T(non-lackey) definitely has better tools to fight against Sub than most of the cast, and if you're somehow able to avoid the corner than the MU(yes I know it's basically impossible) then I think it can be nearly even. Ferra Torr's buttons, damage, projectiles, and range all work pretty well for this match-up IMO.

That Shinnok MU is 8-2 though, no question. That shit literally brings back nightmares of Vanilla Shazam vs Black Adam or Superman, ooooooooh the Horrors.

He's talking about 8-2 in f/t's Favor. I don't think it's that high I'd say 6-4 maybe for f/t.

 

[Derptile]

He's talking about 8-2 in f/t's Favor. I don't think it's that high I'd say 6-4 maybe for f/t.

Oh fuck, nvm me then lol.

I'll just say this, no character beats Sub-Zero worse than 7-3. Sub is dumb AF.

 

[Blewdew]

Oh fuck, nvm me then lol.

I'll just say this, no character beats Sub-Zero worse than 7-3. Sub is dumb AF.

7-3 is also too high in my eyes for the reason above but that's just my opinion. I'll stay with my 6-4

 

[Wetdoba]

LBSH guys if Ferra Torr was broke like everyone says they are where are all the random top tier bandwagon scrubs picking them up and flowcharting everyone like they do with any other top tier? This is an NRS game, when a new broken top tier is made with buffs or someone posts some broke shit all the sheep immediately pick them up for easy wins, there is always the flavor of the month top tier, vanilla supes, vanilla blackadam, vanilla bojutsu, vanilla thundergod, shinnok when he got buffed originally, preparch tanya... its no surprise this is how the community plays the game. So wheres the broken ruthless players at? Oh wait, its just Bio and all of us day 1 mains still.... the Ruthless fad didnt even last for the entire online beta lol, I only played 1 FT online in the entire first year of the game, then during the beta I played 3 and they were all the freest online wins Ive ever had

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

@Blewdew sound reasoning. I don't think D4 and a good cross up make up for the fact that Ferra is the perfect counter to everything Sub wants to do tho.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

@Wetdoba hit the nail right on the head @SaSSolino, this game is notorious for tier whoring.

Why do you guys (fellow mains) think this is the case? I mean even top tier characters that got nerfed still have heavy representation.

 

[Blewdew]

@Blewdew sound reasoning. I don't think D4 and a good cross up make up for the fact that Ferra is the perfect counter to everything Sub wants to do tho.

On paper this a very true point. If they try to play "scrubby subby" style staying fullscreen with clone out trying to snack a freeze somehow there is no way we're gonna loose this matchup. However if you play a good sub who can adapt you will most likely not gonna get to do that the whole Match and you'll be confronted with a much more agressive playstyle and that's the point Were we have still have the advantage but it's not enough for 7-3. though that's only my opinion but we Both agree that it's a winning mu for f/t.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

On paper this a very true point. If they try to play "scrubby subby" style staying fullscreen with clone out trying to snack a freeze somehow there is no way we're gonna loose this matchup. However if you play a good sub who can adapt you will most likely not gonna get to do that the whole Match and you'll be confronted with a much more agressive playstyle and that's the point Were we have still have the advantage but it's not enough for 7-3. though that's only my opinion but we Both agree that it's a winning mu for f/t.

God I've played more than a few subs that literally just klone, ice ball, slide. But his 50/50s can be pretty bad.

 

[SaSSolino]

LBSH guys if Ferra Torr was broke like everyone says they are where are all the random top tier bandwagon scrubs picking them up and flowcharting everyone like they do with any other top tier? This is an NRS game, when a new broken top tier is made with buffs or someone posts some broke shit all the sheep immediately pick them up for easy wins, there is always the flavor of the month top tier, vanilla supes, vanilla blackadam, vanilla bojutsu, vanilla thundergod, shinnok when he got buffed originally, preparch tanya... its no surprise this is how the community plays the game. So wheres the broken ruthless players at? Oh wait, its just Bio and all of us day 1 mains still.... the Ruthless fad didnt even last for the entire online beta lol, I only played 1 FT online in the entire first year of the game, then during the beta I played 3 and they were all the freest online wins Ive ever had

@Wetdoba hit the nail right on the head @SaSSolino, this game is notorious for tier whoring.

Why do you guys (fellow mains) think this is the case? I mean even top tier characters that got nerfed still have heavy representation.

Demolition took a while to find representation, but I don't want to start an argument really, let's just wait and see.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

Demolition took a while to find representation, but I don't want to start an argument really, let's just wait and see.

A whole year?? And plenty of people were playing covert ops from launch. When we start arguing there will be much more swearing.

 

[SaSSolino]

A whole year?? And plenty of people were playing covert ops from launch.

not sure what having CO players has to do with it, but Demolition did receive her buffs pretty early.

Ruthless was amazing already and it's getting buffs, give it time.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

not sure what having CO players has to do with it, but Demolition did receive her buffs pretty early.

Ruthless was amazing already and it's getting buffs, give it time.

Well covert ops is a variation of sonya, so sonya has had much more representation for much longer than Ferra/Torr has. I'm talking about character rep not variations.

Ruthless amazing at launch? No, it wasn't, neither was Vicious, they were solid but not amazing. After 8/31 patch yes Ruthless got much much better, I still wouldn't have called them amazing but they were definitely encroaching A to A+

 

[Wetdoba]

@Wetdoba hit the nail right on the head @SaSSolino, this game is notorious for tier whoring.

Why do you guys (fellow mains) think this is the case? I mean even top tier characters that got nerfed still have heavy representation.

Simple, people suck with big bodies in general, they are a niche character design on top of that with managig Ferra and giving up moves even for a short amount of time, tier whores are too used to sprinting their asses off 24/7 for the last year straight, and most importantly, none of those tier whores are willing to adapt.

not sure what having CO players has to do with it, but Demolition did receive her buffs pretty early.

Ruthless was amazing already and it's getting buffs, give it time.

Ruthless was solid before when they first got PnG cancels, not really amazing, people just never played Ferra Torr at all and had no idea how to approach the character in a match, before the PnG cancels ruthless was pretty useless overall. Now they are amazing so factor in the fact that people still never fight against them and that bumps them up to broke

 

[SaSSolino]

Well covert ops is a variation of sonya, so sonya has had much more representation for much longer than Ferra/Torr has. I'm talking about character rep not variations.

Ruthless amazing at launch? No, it wasn't, neither was Vicious, they were solid but not amazing. After 8/31 patch yes Ruthless got much much better, I still wouldn't have called them amazing but they were definitely encroaching A to A+

Simple, people suck with big bodies in general, they are a niche character design on top of that with managig Ferra and giving up moves even for a short amount of time, tier whores are too used to sprinting their asses off 24/7 for the last year straight, and most importantly, none of those tier whores are willing to adapt.



Ruthless was solid before when they first got PnG cancels, not really amazing, people just never played Ferra Torr at all and had no idea how to approach the character in a match, before the PnG cancels ruthless was pretty useless overall. Now they are amazing so factor in the fact that people still never fight against them and that bumps them up to broke

I never said "at launch", I said "before", but whatever.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

Well yea you're not qualifying any time period, that's why I talk about launch vs. 8/31 vs. MKXL when addressing your "before".

 

[MsMiharo]

I'm gonna give my honest opinion. It might not be worth much but I'd like to consider myself as someone who knows a bit about the game at least. I don't really play ft, I've dabbled a bit with lackey since they're my favorite new characters but not much more than that. I do however have some MU experience.

I feel in many ways FT is the Bane of MKX(L). Buffed to place where they're very strong but not creme de la creme, not at the very very top. Why? Because they have some MUs where they struggle. I know ft at least struggle against Shinnok and I'm pretty convinced they get beat (6-4) by Kano (all variations, ruthless does best, lackey possibly 7-3). These are two important characters to beat since they are also quite top tier and do see play in tournament.

I'd place at least ruthless in my personal top 10 because of its strong buttons, great comeback potential and corner bullying. The talk about them being s-tier doesn't sit right with me though because they can get so severely beat by shinnok and get handled by Kano. They simply lack the tools to really get in on. I've just picked up warlock whom I feel light be another hard to beat character for ft but I have no idea yet.

Anyways these are my thoughts from a Kano/shinnok perspective.

 

[Blewdew]

I'm gonna give my honest opinion. It might not be worth much but I'd like to consider myself as someone who knows a bit about the game at least. I don't really play ft, I've dabbled a bit with lackey since they're my favorite new characters but not much more than that. I do however have some MU experience.

I feel in many ways FT is the Bane of MKX(L). Buffed to place where they're very strong but not creme de la creme, not at the very very top. Why? Because they have some MUs where they struggle. I know ft at least struggle against Shinnok and I'm pretty convinced they get beat (6-4) by Kano (all variations, ruthless does best, lackey possibly 7-3). These are two important characters to beat since they are also quite top tier and do see play in tournament.

I'd place at least ruthless in my personal top 10 because of its strong buttons, great comeback potential and corner bullying. The talk about them being s-tier doesn't sit right with me though because they can get so severely beat by shinnok and get handled by Kano. They simply lack the tools to really get in on. I've just picked up warlock whom I feel light be another hard to beat character for ft but I have no idea yet.

Anyways these are my thoughts from a Kano/shinnok perspective.

I have new tech I'll make you think ruthless wins this mu 10:0 no but seriously we Need to get some matches again lol

And guys calm down a Little but sassolino was actually quite humble and wasn't wrong with ruthless was good before. Not amazing because of little things like b121pngc super tight links but like I said I'll talk about that in the guide I'm currently working on

 

[MsMiharo]

I have new tech I'll make you think ruthless wins this mu 10:0 no but seriously we Need to get some matches again lol

And guys calm down a Little but sassolino was actually quite humble and wasn't wrong with ruthless was good before. Not amazing because of little things like b121pngc super tight links but like I said I'll talk about that in the guide I'm currently working on

Oh really? I doubt it