What's new

Fatal Blows Are Not Needed In This Game (Proposed Changes)

Simply, because of krushing blows!

Now I know, y'all Johnny players gonna tell me his are ass, and they are, but what I'm proposing is that if NRS gives every character useful KBs and fix some of the ridiculous triggers off of some of them, would we really need fatal blows? I feel like if we would center our gameplan around getting KBs in combos, or out of them, then that would be the only comeback mechanic we would really need. Especially if you cash in on the throw KBs, which every character should have, but I also would propose that they should do less damage.

What do you all think about this?
Agreed. At the least remove them from ranked along with wakeup rolls. Good players don't need crutches to win.
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
@Vslayer I have mad love for you but I think they should make this game less about grabs, staggers into grabs and more grabs first. That would literally adjust half of the Krushing Blow problems. Fatal Blows is an easy fix, take armor away like they did to Cassie and all will be right.
 
it's not about the armor it's about the variety of fatal blows. you can have armored or invincible supers but if they're all just super crazy because of the mk cast, thought process just goes out the window.
 

OutworldKeith

Premium
Premium Supporter
Can’t tell y’all how many wins I’ve stolen with Liu Kang using f4,3 hit confirmed into FB lol.

Although punishable, they’re too powerful. FB shouldn’t have armor and shouldn’t regenerate.

A lot of characters have 50+% FB combos as well.
 

Arqwart

Lean, mean, and +3
I'd be ok with them if they took a third or half off the damage they do now. Most FBs will kill someone who doesn't have access to their own, so you win for losing, that's not a comeback mechanic it's a race.
This. This right here. This is part of what I meant when I said "cancer" in my earlier post. It's fucking ridiculous that the "comeback" mechanic can result in a tough fight being lost by the person who made one good read because they're sitting at 30.000001% while their read put the opponent at <30%. Suddenly, that "comeback mechanic" becomes "you made a mistake in not getting low enough to have access to yours and giving me access to mine."

What, and I can't stress this enough, the fuck?

In conclusion:
  1. One and done, hit or not
  2. Delete all 4 bars on use for rest of round, hit or not
  3. Decrease base damage slightly (from 30-34% to 26-30%), increase damage scaling effect
 
Last edited:

PapaRegadetho

All hail emperor Liucifer Kang!
How about FB drain your own health for the duration of the cutscene? Make it a last resort mechanic thats risky in every way with high reward, like it is now. That way we have to think twice before we use it including that fucker Erron Black!
 

DeftMonk

Noob
@Vslayer I have mad love for you but I think they should make this game less about grabs, staggers into grabs and more grabs first. That would literally adjust half of the Krushing Blow problems. Fatal Blows is an easy fix, take armor away like they did to Cassie and all will be right.
that aint gonna happen homie. With out the throws opening people up with certain characters would be like opening a can of soup with ur butt cheek.
 

Sanjo

Noob
Complaining about the FB in general is dumb as it's a very unique come-back mechanic available only once per match. Get better : play carefully and respect your opponent when he has it.
However, I guess it's alright to complain about a specific character's FB if it feels overpowered.
On a side note, if you think FB is a deadly come-back mechanic, take a look at SF5 's VTrigger mechanic. It's wayyyyy scarier! Please stop whining or proposing crazy stuff that will never happen and adapt.
 
Complaining about the FB in general is dumb as it's a very unique come-back mechanic available only once per match. Get better : play carefully and respect your opponent when he has it.
However, I guess it's alright to complain about a specific character's FB if it feels overpowered.
On a side note, if you think FB is a deadly come-back mechanic, take a look at SF5 's VTrigger mechanic. It's wayyyyy scarier! Please stop whining or proposing crazy stuff that will never happen and adapt.
It’s not really available once per match though. They get it every 5 seconds until they hit it, assuming they are sub 30%. It cost nothing and many of them are safe/fullscreen 10-15f start up. I don’t really have too many issues with the mechanic other than it’s completely free. Some characters like EB can completely freeze neutral with their FB and that’s pretty silly as well.

Also is it really that unique? It’s just like x-ray attack from MK9/MKX. It’s basically just a cutscene. Now it’s tied to remaining health (kind of like Ultra’s from SFIV). Not that unique IMO...
 
Complaining about the FB in general is dumb as it's a very unique come-back mechanic available only once per match. Get better : play carefully and respect your opponent when he has it.
However, I guess it's alright to complain about a specific character's FB if it feels overpowered.
On a side note, if you think FB is a deadly come-back mechanic, take a look at SF5 's VTrigger mechanic. It's wayyyyy scarier! Please stop whining or proposing crazy stuff that will never happen and adapt.
Listen, son, respect is earned! If I'm beating my opponent's ass and not making any mistakes with my pressure, then it's my win. I shouldn't have to stop going, because my opponent gets a free armored 30% move. How about the pro-crutch crowd can learn how to time wakeups, zone out of close range, and space properly for whiff punishes? You guys are the ones that need to adapt. From my experience, the fatal blow users are always the D2 mashers, jumpers, and hitbox pirates. It's one big hivemind operating/playing the same. Don't worry, I doubt they'll be removed. But changes need to happen. More people are catching on as the fanboyism wears off.
A natural process of all new games.
 

Hellbringer

On your knees!
Premium Supporter
Listen, son, respect is earned! If I'm beating my opponent's ass and not making any mistakes with my pressure, then it's my win. I shouldn't have to stop going, because my opponent gets a free armored 30% move. How about the pro-crutch crowd can learn how to time wakeups, zone out of close range, and space properly for whiff punishes? You guys are the ones that need to adapt. From my experience, the fatal blow users are always the D2 mashers, jumpers, and hitbox pirates. It's one big hivemind operating/playing the same. Don't worry, I doubt they'll be removed. But changes need to happen. More people are catching on as the fanboyism wears off.
A natural process of all new games.
15267
 

Sanjo

Noob
Listen, son, respect is earned! If I'm beating my opponent's ass and not making any mistakes with my pressure, then it's my win. I shouldn't have to stop going, because my opponent gets a free armored 30% move. How about the pro-crutch crowd can learn how to time wakeups, zone out of close range, and space properly for whiff punishes? You guys are the ones that need to adapt. From my experience, the fatal blow users are always the D2 mashers, jumpers, and hitbox pirates. It's one big hivemind operating/playing the same. Don't worry, I doubt they'll be removed. But changes need to happen. More people are catching on as the fanboyism wears off.
A natural process of all new games.
If the word "respect" doesn't work for you, I'll change it to "play smart" : bait and punish if possible.
You said that you shouldn't have to stop your offense because of the threat of FB. I think you are wrong. If it's the best strategy, do it. It's a clear momentum shift and one you have to accept. You proved your offensive abilities and it's then time to demonstrate your defensive capacities. That's how I see it anyway.
 

Sanjo

Noob
It’s not really available once per match though. They get it every 5 seconds until they hit it, assuming they are sub 30%. It cost nothing and many of them are safe/fullscreen 10-15f start up. I don’t really have too many issues with the mechanic other than it’s completely free. Some characters like EB can completely freeze neutral with their FB and that’s pretty silly as well.

Also is it really that unique? It’s just like x-ray attack from MK9/MKX. It’s basically just a cutscene. Now it’s tied to remaining health (kind of like Ultra’s from SFIV). Not that unique IMO...
It's unique because you can use it only once per match. Wether you use it early or late has a direct impact on the remaining of the match. When you have it, the opponent cannot blindly rush you down. You have the opportunity to mount a "clean" come-back. In a nutshell, the longer you keep it, the better it is.
 

Afumba

Noob
Yes you can. I didn't say anything about you can't. But why is that a problem? You can win by a lot of things why shouldn't you win by a Fatal Blow if you have it? I said if you lose it's not only because of it. That means you have already lost a round and you were below 40% in Round 3 and you got hit. You could win by an X-Ray in MKX and was the two-hit instant armor more fair because you had 3 meters to perform it?

Then we could question a lot of tools based on the opponent has it but you haven't. You can have FB with 20% life and you're up gainst a Scorpion with a life lead. You must attack because time ticking down. Step, block, step, block, step, block, he's jumping back and forth, you have to attack or anti-air, boom, teleport, meter burn, you're done! Or you're up against a Baraka, he can delete your bar on hit with the Gut KB if you don't have full defensive bar to air escape from 40%+health so you can't even think about using your FB to survive.

You think being low on health is no cost, I think otherwise. It is a get out of jail kard in a way but you still have to make a read/time it properly/find a way to land it.

The only thing I'd change is the regen. If you whiff you shouldn't have it once again in the same round. That would make sense. But it is called Fatal Blow for a reason. You should be able to win rounds/matches with it.
Regular combos are not something you can use to make your point. Damage like Barakas or Sonyas shouldnt be in the game to begin with, its too much and a whole different topic. Thats why i didnt mention it, its a FB topic not a "broken damage" topic. But to answer you, yes these damage issues should be addressed and nerfed as well. As said thats beside the point though, characters with high damaging combos can do even more damage with FB. So all of a sudden you dont die just cuz you are below 40% but because you are below 50/60/70%. Further there are some character that cant kill you with 1 read at 30% health but you can kill them with 1 read at 50%+with FB so they are more in trouble than you just for having the lifelead. So your chances got better for being behind and his got worse for being ahead... yea seems fair lol

You also didnt read everything i said or didnt understand it or simply didnt care. Anyways... Xray were definitively different than FB. If you wanted to Xray you couldnt use EX moves or you had to rebuid meter. With FB characters can still use every tool without having to make a choice. They also had a clear cost which FBs dont have no matter how you spin it. Also as said before Xray were available to both players all the time. You could be losing and not have Xray or winning and have Xray. In MK11 you get FB but your oppinent might not. If you dont see how they are different i cant help you. Were Xray fair? = No. Are they more fair than FB? =Yes. Want to make FB "fair", give them to both players. Why not? They would still be dumb without a cost but they would at least be "fair".

Yes being low on health is no cost, like nada. What cost do you have? Your low health is a reward that your opponent earned by outplaying you. You didnt trade life for the FB it was simply given to you because you have low health. Thats a big difference. Feel free to see it how you want but you are still wrong about the cost.

I dislike comeback mechanics in general, they are stupid but FBs are beyond sad. Only thing that can make them slightly more tolerable is a two offensive bar costs (JC FB cancel would cost one bar) and more scaling in combos. Also making sure that raw FBs wont do enough damage to kill someone who hasnt FB himself. Either all this or give them to both players so at least they both have a stupid thing available.

So yea you should be able to win with it but it shouldnt be this random nuke you just get access while your opponent is possibly put in a worse spot just for being ahead. And yes i would trade FBs with Xray in a heartbeat and i disliked Xrays.
 

Madog32

PSN: ImaGiveItToUBaby
You proved your offensive abilities and it's then time to demonstrate your defensive capacities. That's how I see it anyway.
Fair opinion.

But why should the winner have to prove his offensive AND defensive abilities when the loser hasn't even proven their defensive abilities yet?

Whether you like or dislike FBs, it's hard to deny they're almost always used as a crutch meant solely for keeping the losing player in the game. If the intention was to make FBs a skillful option, they wouldn't regen within the same round, wouldn't have armor, wouldn't have crazy pushback on block like Geras, and would require a hit confirm into them, at least
 
Last edited:
They also had a clear cost which FBs dont have no matter how you spin it. Also as said before Xray were available to both players all the time. You could be losing and not have Xray or winning and have Xray. In MK11 you get FB but your oppinent might not.
And previously you might have Xray and your opponent might not? One person still had the advantage. How is that any more fair than in MK11?

Now it's just based on health level rather than your meter gained.

What cost do you have?
The cost is the FB itself. You land it and it's gone, it ain't coming back. So you got your guaranteed ~32%, but the next round you can't rely on that as your "I win" button. So not only is there a cost, there's also the same risk/reward as the oldschool xray.

And the fact that you're only one combo away from dying. Any decent player can pull off a 25-30% combo in their sleep given the opportunity. Sure there might be a few more buttons to press, but execution is rarely the issue.

The risk/reward has changed from being about meter management in the moment (use meter for an xray or keep it for enhanced specials), to FB management, use it now to win this round, or leave it for the next.

Some of them definitely need to be looked at & tweaked. Changing it so there is a meter cost probably wouldn't be a bad option, but they're not going to drop them, or completely change them to be what an Xray was.
 
Ok Im going to tell you why I dont think fatal blows will go away.I grew up in a era without microtransactions.Now gamemakers are making millions off of these.
How many times have you lost to a lucky Fatal Blow I can say I won some and lost.
Games have gotten to the point were they make it eaiser for no thumbs to be able to compete.Its shows in alot first person shooters with new op guns every month.
Fatal Blows are easy press 2 buttons and win the match.Not so good players enjoy it sometimes they win and winning is fun which make them spend more money on microtransactions.
I am all for them being gone that would make alot of not so good players unhappy!!
 

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
Premium Supporter
@Vslayer I have mad love for you but I think they should make this game less about grabs, staggers into grabs and more grabs first. That would literally adjust half of the Krushing Blow problems. Fatal Blows is an easy fix, take armor away like they did to Cassie and all will be right.
I disagree. While I'm not a fan of armored FBs either, that would just make the disparity between them even greater.

Erron would have the best FB by an even greater margin for example.