F242 Mid Screen Conversion Is Possible. +4 On block Launcher.

[ATIWAB]

Unless you're one of the very hard AI bots who's gone all sky net and gained sentience you are not flawless blocking that in neutral you seller of bills

You say I need to get in that lab. You know what this shit is. Stuff that only works in the lab. When you're sitting waiting for it.

Speaking of Very Hard AI bots.

People are way over-exaggerating how hard FBs are. This is just throwing the AI on Very Hard and letting him do whatever, so you can't use the "lol you knew it was coming" excuse, and I'm still sitting here able to easily FB 10f mids while honestly barely even paying attention.

Are y'all playing on normal TVs or something? I play on a 1ms monitor.

 

[Wigy]

Speaking of Very Hard AI bots.

People are way over-exaggerating how hard FBs are. This is just throwing the AI on Very Hard and letting him do whatever, so you can't use the "lol you knew it was coming" excuse, and I'm still sitting here able to easily FB 10f mids while honestly barely even paying attention.

Are y'all playing on normal TVs or something? I play on a 1ms monitor.

You're literally sat in practice mode not even moving. Rofl.

 

[ATIWAB]

You're literally sat in practice mode not even moving. Rofl.

You're literally missing the point.

If you're getting hit with F242 because you've whiffed something prior, there's nothing that's gonna help you react to it in the 3f difference. No shit. Basic math.

But from Neutral, which is what you're complaining about, yes, you can absolutely FB a 17f attack. Or, clearly, a 10f one. The reason I'm "not even moving" is because I can full punish any one of those strings with that FB, it's to get more strings of his out to FB.

If you play by walking forward and button mashing 24/7, no, Flawless Blocking isn't for you.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

You can fatal blow the gap is not a solution lol. Just hold it til you're on 30%?

And parry if you have an 8frame parry. These are two highly situational options which can get you full punished?

Anyways not guna derail the thread. Just an observation. On paper it's rather dumb.

Just wanted to chime in here. I've been playing mirrors all day since release in sets.
I think Shang is definitely strong but nowhere near OP. Like you said his buttons on paper look insane but after labbing nearly everything he has to open is punishable by halfway decent players.

B3U4/B3D4 is fuzzyable and there is a OS to counter it.

F242 has 8f gap and can consistently be blown up if labbed.

3U2 had a great hitbox but can easily be D2 KB when used after plus frames.

Ground Skulls is punishable via Flawless Blocks but good at max range. It also misses jumping opponents (females)

112 is probably his best plus frames but he only has 14f mid and it won't reach so 17f mid that leaves 11f s3(D2KB) and B3 which won't reach and is punishable if they go for combo.

He can be outzoned by a good amount if the cast but overall I think he is A tier or higher until more tech is discovered that shows otherwise because he can condition everything. But he certainly isn't Sub Zero mixer or Sonya zoning by any means. More like Baraka with a splash of zoning and incredible footsies.

Just wanted to clarify for others who may not know everything has a counter and built in weakness. He is an honest Footsie character that uses staggers and wiff punishers to get them open.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

You're literally missing the point.

If you're getting hit with F242 because you've whiffed something prior, there's nothing that's gonna help you react to it in the 3f difference. No shit. Basic math.

But from Neutral, which is what you're complaining about, yes, you can absolutely FB a 17f attack. Or, clearly, a 10f one. The reason I'm "not even moving" is because I can full punish any one of those strings with that FB, it's to get more strings of his out to FB.

If you play by walking forward and button mashing 24/7, no, Flawless Blocking isn't for you.

I flawless block his ground skulls all day but I doubt many will get a Flawless block on a 17f unreactable first hit unless the opponent is telegraphing their moves. But yes when done on gaps and projectiles FB is easy AF.

 

[ATIWAB]

I flawless block his ground skulls all day but I doubt many will get a Flawless block on a 17f unreactable first hit unless the opponent is telegraphing their moves. But yes when done on gaps and projectiles FB is easy AF.

I don't know man, apparently I can't speak for everyone because I was under the impression nobody found them that hard, but I really have no problem FB'ing anything over 15f. On a 1ms monitor, you can basically just wait for any attack animation to begin and tap block and end up with a FB. If you don't, just keep holding and react to the string however (like poking gaps you know or waiting for your punish etc). If you do, U3 and follow up on sound cue. There are very few overhead starters in the game, so you can basically react to every startup animation in Neutral by tapping DBlk and get one.

And then there's specific ones I've labbed to death and can FB on recognition.

I FB a lot but don't U3 a lot just because I usually can get a better combo off a block punish than my U3.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

I don't know man, apparently I can't speak for everyone because I was under the impression nobody found them that hard, but I really have no problem FB'ing anything over 15f. On a 1ms monitor, you can basically just wait for any attack animation to begin and tap block and end up with a FB. If you don't, just keep holding and react to the string however (like poking gaps you know or waiting for your punish etc). If you do, U3 and follow up on sound cue. There are very few overhead starters in the game, so you can basically react to every startup animation in Neutral by tapping DBlk and get one.

And then there's specific ones I've labbed to death and can FB on recognition.

I FB a lot but don't U3 a lot just because I usually can get a better combo off a block punish than my U3.

I'm not doubting you are FB them but its well known that anything below 18f isn't reactable from animation or sound. I'm sure you can do it on reads

 

[Wigy]

You're literally missing the point.

If you're getting hit with F242 because you've whiffed something prior, there's nothing that's gonna help you react to it in the 3f difference. No shit. Basic math.

But from Neutral, which is what you're complaining about, yes, you can absolutely FB a 17f attack. Or, clearly, a 10f one. The reason I'm "not even moving" is because I can full punish any one of those strings with that FB, it's to get more strings of his out to FB.

If you play by walking forward and button mashing 24/7, no, Flawless Blocking isn't for you.

Buddy. If you're stood still in practice mode not moving literally practicing FB it's very different that in a game where you're occupied with spacing, correct blocks, reacting to jump ins or whatever.

Remember in mkx when top players continually got opened up by 22 frame overheads after endless play and MU experience. Players much better than you or me. I do.

This is a BILL.

Not saying that he's OP and the strings broken. I was saying ON PAPER the string is dumb is all I've said.

 

[Qwark28]

You're literally missing the point.

If you're getting hit with F242 because you've whiffed something prior, there's nothing that's gonna help you react to it in the 3f difference. No shit. Basic math.

But from Neutral, which is what you're complaining about, yes, you can absolutely FB a 17f attack. Or, clearly, a 10f one. The reason I'm "not even moving" is because I can full punish any one of those strings with that FB, it's to get more strings of his out to FB.

If you play by walking forward and button mashing 24/7, no, Flawless Blocking isn't for you.

Stop embarassing yourself further, your past few posts are some of the dumbest I've ever read in my 8 years on this site, and that's quite an accomplishment.

Everyone can ignore footsies and focus 100% of their attention press D + BLK on any random twitch your opponent does. If you don't get why that's not a reliable thing, you're completely clueless regarding fighting games.

another idiot in the ignore list, mk11 is expanding it nicely.

 

[ATIWAB]

Buddy. If you're stood still in practice mode not moving literally practicing FB it's very different that in a game where you're occupied with spacing, correct blocks, reacting to jump ins or whatever.

that's a real cool theory dummy except I can do it in-game, too.

Jump-ins are the easiest to react to things in the game, btw. Not sure why you'd bring them up, just makes you look bad.

Stop embarassing yourself further, your past few posts are some of the dumbest I've ever read in my 8 years on this site, and that's quite an accomplishment.

Everyone can ignore footsies and focus 100% of their attention press D + BLK on any random twitch your opponent does. If you don't why that's not a reliable thing, you're completely clueless regarding fighting games.

another idiot in the ignore list, mk11 is expanding it nicely.

"I don't understand how FB is intended to work, I also don't understand that one FB open changes an entire round, uR ClUElEss because you can reliably do something I can't, blocked"

whew, lad. You should really work on that insecurity.

 

[Rodney Quillz]

Stop embarassing yourself further, your past few posts are some of the dumbest I've ever read in my 8 years on this site, and that's quite an accomplishment.

Everyone can ignore footsies and focus 100% of their attention press D + BLK on any random twitch your opponent does. If you don't why that's not a reliable thing, you're completely clueless regarding fighting games.

another idiot in the ignore list, mk11 is expanding it nicely.

Ouch, bodied.

 

[Afumba]

Buddy... ...

I think you need to lab more.

Sry friend but i am with Wigy and LawAbidingCitizen on this one. In a match you are not reacting to a 15f move. You most likely anticipate it and get the FB or you just react to any twitch with FB and hope for the best but there is no way you recognize a 10f or 15f mid and FB that move on reaction.

We had this "react to" discussionon on this site lots of times already. There was even a test for it awhile ago were even pro players didnt react to below f18-f19.

 

[ATIWAB]

or you just react to any twitch with FB

I've already said as much. That's why I brought up "there are basically no overhead starters in the game" when I mentioned reacting with DBlk. The ones that do exist are slow as fuck.

I really don't think people understand what NRS did to the game when FB was added, yet.

The meta will evolve over time. You'll eventually understand that "reacting to the startup of any string animation with a tap block and FB from neutral" is going to be a big part of footsies once we get there. It's a free punish on literally all starters regardless of how safe their frame data is.

Bookmark this for a year for now, we'll see how the game is played then.

 

[SkyratiK]

I was messing around with this the other day and hopped on Twitter to see someone posted it. Timing is tight indeed.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

It's a 17f man, it's pretty reactable.

But wait... I thought Sub's 19F overhead wasn't reactable? So why is a 17F attack?

 

[ATIWAB]

But wait... I thought Sub's 19F overhead wasn't reactable? So why is a 17F attack?

Who said it wasn't?

I react to it all the time. Even cited it as an example earlier in the same thread.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Who said it wasn't?

I react to it all the time. Even cited it as an example earlier in the same thread.

The abundance of salt in the Sub Zero forums lol

 

[ATIWAB]

The abundance of salt in the Sub Zero forums lol

People way overstate frame data in what you can/can't react to anyway -- Skarlet's B1 mid is same frames as Sub's OH and nobody complains about it not being reactable, it's more about how unique the startup on the animation looks. Fuck, Skarlet's F4 is only 13f but if you can't react to that you're probably fucking blind or playing on a TV and not a monitor, it has a super obvious startup animation.

In fact, anyone who isn't playing on a 1ms monitor should probably just stay out of the convo about what's reactable altogether tbh, go ask your moms to upgrade your shit if you want to have convos about competitive balance

 

[Cobainevermind87]

Someone is quite full of themselves I see.

 

[Wigy]

Someone has spent far too long in the practice mode rofl.

 

[Inzzane_79]

Post your last 5 matches against real people. Should be a FB party going on with your FB skills

You can talk all day but such big words need proof Sir

 

[Rip Torn]

Speaking of Very Hard AI bots.

People are way over-exaggerating how hard FBs are. This is just throwing the AI on Very Hard and letting him do whatever, so you can't use the "lol you knew it was coming" excuse, and I'm still sitting here able to easily FB 10f mids while honestly barely even paying attention.

Are y'all playing on normal TVs or something? I play on a 1ms monitor.

I like how the cpu is just walking up to you and pressing the same button from the same distance with the exact same timing and you think you are reacting to a 10f move, lol. That's funny.

What you need to do is make a few recordings and do a random f4 with Scarlet and play them back randomly. Let's see you react to these situations.

You can't react to 10f moves unless you're some sort of Meta-Human. There's science to back this up...

 

[Poto2222]

Hey guys, is this the thread where we post our godlike practice mode Flawless Block showcase vids?

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

People way overstate frame data in what you can/can't react to anyway -- Skarlet's B1 mid is same frames as Sub's OH and nobody complains about it not being reactable, it's more about how unique the startup on the animation looks. Fuck, Skarlet's F4 is only 13f but if you can't react to that you're probably fucking blind or playing on a TV and not a monitor, it has a super obvious startup animation.

In fact, anyone who isn't playing on a 1ms monitor should probably just stay out of the convo about what's reactable altogether tbh, go ask your moms to upgrade your shit if you want to have convos about competitive balance

I'll refer you to do a search on reaction timing here on TYM this has all been proved before the program used was millia blocker 2.0 which tested your reaction timing vs Oh/Low and you where only supposed to press on the Overhead only.
The reason this is important is because its much easier to react to things you are looking for (1 move) than it is 4 things all at different timing and different responses.
Players like Sonic Fox, ForeverKing, HoneyBee, Reo ect all took the test and they got 20f average reaction every time except for sonics who did get several results at 19f consistently.
It is well known you can can react to moves below 18f when its truly random bit if you are focusing on it waiting for the move you can (this is a read) not a reaction.
BTW we all know TVs have very bad input delay usually 70ms on average but I have a 2ms monitor that is approved by Esports and I can't react to stuff under 18f on raw reaction and neither can Sonic Fox and he has stated so before on here.

Look at Sonic's HoneyBees, Reos, Dragons, Scars streams and you will see they don't flawless block everything and only do it in gaps or off moves they know are -5 on block which guarantees FB off a read. There is only a 3f window to Flawless Block so if you are trying to Flawless Block Shangs B1/F2/1 its near impossible to consistently do it because they all have different startup B1 is 14f, F2 is 17f(3frame difference), and s1 which is 8f startup a huge difference and completely different timing.

Here is the discussion showing its not possible to react to less than 19f moves when multiple moves are coming instead of one:

Can You React To A 18 Frame Over Head?

if u can react to 18 frame overhead, then it means that killer frosts entire game was bullshit.

testyourmight.com

 

[ShepherdOfFire]

That gap seems only 8f.

I can only get 7f moves to trade with it?

He has the f243 as well to blow up any gap punishing with a KB.

Basically play geras or flawless block are the options?

Bit stupid

Sonya can parry the last hit of f242