He was talking pre recent patch.It's hardly a 50/50 when his overhead is 23frames.
He was talking pre recent patch.It's hardly a 50/50 when his overhead is 23frames.
Ah right, the post was made after the patch so I assumed he was referring to post patch, didnt notice he was responding to someones question about prepatch. My apologies.He was talking pre recent patch.
The post you quoted me on was me talking about PRE PATCH not the current patcu because he was saying that there wasn't much of a reason to pick any variation other than gunslinger at that time anyways which I said that him having those safe unreactable hitconfirmable 50/50s was good enough for him to be goodIt's hardly a 50/50 when his overhead is 23frames. This patch is pretty much enough to make me drop my Marksman solo main and play Kenjutsu lol (just cuz he's more fun). You know what other moves are faster or the same speed as Erron Black's overhead? 2 Jason Down1s, Sandgrenade, Sand gust to name a few. Even Shoto characters from Guilty Gear and Blazblue (Ky and Ragna) have reactable special cancellable Overheads (Greed Sever and Gauntlet Hades) which are quicker than this.
EDIT2: Someone pointed out the post Im responding to was referring to pre-patch F1. My apologies. Rant about shitty F1 still stands though
EDIT: The point Im trying to make with the comparison to anime fighters is that SF and Anime fighters were originally designed always so that the overhead is alot slower since characters in anime have like 5-9frame lows. Whereas MK was fairly notorious for its unreactable 50/50s
Heck, Erron Black's F4 (the boot drop) and Marksmans Rifle shot is only 1 frame slower than his F1.
the sandtoss seems completely useless which I agree on, and Ill only play marksman for those sweet 40% midscreen combos and 47% corner combos with gunswing (unless damage stealth nerf Im unaware of)
At least, one thing I am happy about ironically was the universal runcancel nerf (being only able to do 1). Since EB's guncancel was so bad (not really, just comparative to say, Swarm Queen A-List DragonsFire Hellfire) that you can only hitconfirm with it, by having everyone else's runcancels pressure ending earlier and guranteeing alot less, Marksman's guncancel suddenly doesn't seem so bad, although it still is.
Haha yea I picked up on that a little while afterwards. I send my apologies once again (I did as well in my 2nd Edit)The post you quoted me on was me talking about PRE PATCH not the current patcu because he was saying that there wasn't much of a reason to pick any variation other than gunslinger at that time anyways which I said that him having those safe unreactable hitconfirmable 50/50s was good enough for him to be good
Can he live without those cancels? Can he zone? How is his neutral?You basically can only punish into cancels. If you space with run in the neutral like I do a lot you will never have enough stamina to wiff punish or pressure with cancels. It's useless. You pretty much can't even run a quarter of the screen to engage with a cancel combo.
Marksman zoning is poop, but the removal of armored launchers will help him slightlyCan he live without those cancels? Can he zone? How is his neutral?
One of his weaknesses in this variation is his neutral and his zoningCan he live without those cancels? Can he zone? How is his neutral?
Heh. Then what is left?xDOne of his weaknesses in this variation is his neutral and his zoning
I dropped him the second I saw the patch notesSeriously feels like NRS is forcing Marksman mains to play Gunslinger. But I think I'll struggle for a bit longer, no fun so far.
The only thing I can imagine that he has left is some really bad guncancel tickthrow gimmicks and high damage combos, but gunslinger has pretty much the same corner carry combos with 5-10% less damage. There's really not much to Marksman, I'd argue Outlaw is a better pick as well. Damage is pretty much the only thing now thoughHeh. Then what is left?xD
And Outlaw? What is his use now that ST lost armor?The only thing I can imagine that he has left is some really bad guncancel tickthrow gimmicks and high damage combos, but gunslinger has pretty much the same corner carry combos with 5-10% less damage. There's really not much to Marksman, I'd argue Outlaw is a better pick as well. Damage is pretty much the only thing now though
well he still has a "23.5%" damage reversal which comes from EX Tarkatan Stab (14% + 9.5% guranteed damage over time unless the opponent is on redflash life), even though it's slow it has a fairly far reaching hitbox and reaches far enough to sometimes catch jumpins from a character space away. Outlaw just has a Good neutral jump punch, really easy combos, has an okay F222 midstring (still 14f startup sadly) and a F33 gimmick if he loses his sword from tarkatan stab. his overhead and low starters can be made safe using EXSandtoss but it's not that great if I'm honest.And Outlaw? What is his use now that ST lost armor?
Yep, and OH which was made 23f... they should made it max 19f, or add more ticks for EB, or give him a mid... and most of all, make a use of F3~2+4 string in Outlaw. And NRS should improve Marksman's zoning.Why is marksman bad exactly? I assume its because of the run cancel nerf?
Mainly the stamina adjustment in h game. You pretty much need to be resting or acting on a punish to perform a cancel. If you so much as run a quarter to the screen to wiff punish or pressure into a combo you do not have the stamina to do some of his cancel combos.Why is marksman bad exactly? I assume its because of the run cancel nerf?
Gunslinger is still good.You can pretty much fuzzy the overhead. People just crouch block and react to the overhead F1. Erron is bunz now.