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General/Other - Erron Black Erron Black General Discussion Thread

It's hardly a 50/50 when his overhead is 23frames. This patch is pretty much enough to make me drop my Marksman solo main and play Kenjutsu lol (just cuz he's more fun). You know what other moves are faster or the same speed as Erron Black's overhead? 2 Jason Down1s, Sandgrenade, Sand gust to name a few. Even Shoto characters from Guilty Gear and Blazblue (Ky and Ragna) have reactable special cancellable Overheads (Greed Sever and Gauntlet Hades) which are quicker than this.

EDIT2: Someone pointed out the post Im responding to was referring to pre-patch F1. My apologies. Rant about shitty F1 still stands though

EDIT: The point Im trying to make with the comparison to anime fighters is that SF and Anime fighters were originally designed always so that the overhead is alot slower since characters in anime have like 5-9frame lows. Whereas MK was fairly notorious for its unreactable 50/50s

Heck, Erron Black's F4 (the boot drop) and Marksmans Rifle shot is only 1 frame slower than his F1.

the sandtoss seems completely useless which I agree on, and Ill only play marksman for those sweet 40% midscreen combos and 47% corner combos with gunswing (unless damage stealth nerf Im unaware of)

At least, one thing I am happy about ironically was the universal runcancel nerf (being only able to do 1). Since EB's guncancel was so bad (not really, just comparative to say, Swarm Queen A-List DragonsFire Hellfire) that you can only hitconfirm with it, by having everyone else's runcancels pressure ending earlier and guranteeing alot less, Marksman's guncancel suddenly doesn't seem so bad, although it still is.
The post you quoted me on was me talking about PRE PATCH not the current patcu because he was saying that there wasn't much of a reason to pick any variation other than gunslinger at that time anyways which I said that him having those safe unreactable hitconfirmable 50/50s was good enough for him to be good
 

NQuad1Zero

Hidden Fraud
The post you quoted me on was me talking about PRE PATCH not the current patcu because he was saying that there wasn't much of a reason to pick any variation other than gunslinger at that time anyways which I said that him having those safe unreactable hitconfirmable 50/50s was good enough for him to be good
Haha yea I picked up on that a little while afterwards. I send my apologies once again (I did as well in my 2nd Edit)
Alot of other characters have HAD safe 5050s too, some even without the runcancel element tho I guess this argument isnt the point here lol. Also outlaw had SOME merits, namely SandToss, NJP and Tarkatan Stab oki

Tho now alot of characters are surprisingly unplayable now on paper (Watching HoneyBee talk about Dvorah was depressing AF even tho I never liked the character, and Kenshi is not as good as I first thought post-patch). Does marksman EB have to use command grabs and/or hope to tag opponents with a low to get 40%+ combos to win games now? lol
 

The Farmer

Gunslinger since pre ptch -Shout out 2 Youphs 2015
You basically can only punish into cancels. If you space with run in the neutral like I do a lot you will never have enough stamina to wiff punish or pressure with cancels. It's useless. You pretty much can't even run a quarter of the screen to engage with a cancel combo.
 
You basically can only punish into cancels. If you space with run in the neutral like I do a lot you will never have enough stamina to wiff punish or pressure with cancels. It's useless. You pretty much can't even run a quarter of the screen to engage with a cancel combo.
Can he live without those cancels? Can he zone? How is his neutral?
 

CaptainCM

Certified trash
Seriously feels like NRS is forcing Marksman mains to play Gunslinger. But I think I'll struggle for a bit longer, no fun so far.
 

NQuad1Zero

Hidden Fraud
Heh. Then what is left?xD
The only thing I can imagine that he has left is some really bad guncancel tickthrow gimmicks and high damage combos, but gunslinger has pretty much the same corner carry combos with 5-10% less damage. There's really not much to Marksman, I'd argue Outlaw is a better pick as well. Damage is pretty much the only thing now though
 
The only thing I can imagine that he has left is some really bad guncancel tickthrow gimmicks and high damage combos, but gunslinger has pretty much the same corner carry combos with 5-10% less damage. There's really not much to Marksman, I'd argue Outlaw is a better pick as well. Damage is pretty much the only thing now though
And Outlaw? What is his use now that ST lost armor?
 

NQuad1Zero

Hidden Fraud
And Outlaw? What is his use now that ST lost armor?
well he still has a "23.5%" damage reversal which comes from EX Tarkatan Stab (14% + 9.5% guranteed damage over time unless the opponent is on redflash life), even though it's slow it has a fairly far reaching hitbox and reaches far enough to sometimes catch jumpins from a character space away. Outlaw just has a Good neutral jump punch, really easy combos, has an okay F222 midstring (still 14f startup sadly) and a F33 gimmick if he loses his sword from tarkatan stab. his overhead and low starters can be made safe using EXSandtoss but it's not that great if I'm honest.
 

The Farmer

Gunslinger since pre ptch -Shout out 2 Youphs 2015
Why is marksman bad exactly? I assume its because of the run cancel nerf?
Mainly the stamina adjustment in h game. You pretty much need to be resting or acting on a punish to perform a cancel. If you so much as run a quarter to the screen to wiff punish or pressure into a combo you do not have the stamina to do some of his cancel combos.
 
Omg what the hell did they do to his f1? Just saw it for the first time last night. This is overkill man wth.... and there also goes marksman, my favorite variation.
 

21122

Noob
NRS just makes me so mad sometimes. They are so bad with creating balance patches.

Why wasn't Tark Stab given 2 hits of armour like other characters from the cast?
Did they even bother looking at Outlaw? Did they not see all the useless moves he had?
Wtf is marksman? Just delete him from the game at this point.
Lets give Cyro a bunch of tick throws but nothing for Erron...ok
Hey, lets make Erron overhead ridiculously slow but not Ermac...ok
Hey, lets make Tremor big leg +6...but lets keep Erron's none advancing, slow as fk big leg at +2...ok
Hey, lets remove armour from Outlaw's sand toss (im fine with that as it is keeping pace with the no armour launchers) but, lets still keep it slow as fk so there is never a need to use this move in the netural. So, basically never aside from mid combo cancel restand....ok
 

The Farmer

Gunslinger since pre ptch -Shout out 2 Youphs 2015
You can pretty much fuzzy the overhead. People just crouch block and react to the overhead F1. Erron is bunz now.
 

wsj515

This is my billionth life cycle.
Erron stopped being fun for me when they nerfed ex sand grenade, pretty glad I dropped.
 
Although I view the OH nerf aa being a bit too much, 19f would be perfect, I saw that people, some serious players, still get hit by it. And NRS should improve Marksman's zoning and give Outlaw some ticks and do something with F3,2+4 string. Then we would have a great character with variations for long, mid and close range. :)