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Early Top 5 thoughts from Sonic Fox

Shaka

Shaka

Tier Whore.
Vithar said:
~99% of the Inj2 community has no clue what WW is capable of , but they put her down at the bottom.
Also Harley is much much strong than people think!
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Nah, she is in need of help.

Whatever she does Aquaman does better.
 
chores

chores

bad at things
PLAYING TO WIN said:
I haven't got to play supergirl yet. She has good zoning and mobility. What are the big issues with her?

I know people say her damage is low. And b12 to whatever follow up can be poked out. Just curious your thoughts on why's she is bad
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low damage (180 meterless and 270 for a bar midscreen) and trouble opening people up. her overhead option is reactable and -1000 on block. she needs meter to do anything and has trouble building meter. her oki setups are gimmicky. the only "real" mixup on knockdown is f3 close (same side) vs f3 far (crossup) which can be beat by delay wakeup and many wakeup attacks (it is easy to see coming as the startup animation takes forever)

with that being said her space control/whiff punishing with b12 is great. her trait zoning is strong since every hit is a knockdown. she is very strong in the air. he air actions are:
1) straight beam (can be held to create a persistent laser if predicting a jump)
2) diagonal down beam
3) teleport punch
4) air grab (whiff builds meter if opponent isnt doing anything)
5) float
6) dash

after a float she can perform any other air action, including air dash into another option. once the opponent respects your air options you can get in pretty easily. the problem is once youre in i feel like her only legit way to open people up is grab vs shimmy which i dont think will take you very far in this game.

she gets 30% meterless in the corner but all of her ambiguous corner stuff can be labbed. ending corner combos with different strings into float makes it visually impossible to know if her float j1 will hit same side or crossup, but every single setup she has behaves the same way every time, which is why i say the only "real" mixup is with reactable f3. people will learn all the others over time.

she has a lot of tools and i wouldnt call her bad, but once people really learn the matchup she will struggle against patient players. i think her real strength is zooming around the air zoning with trait then going in for a grab and waiting for mistakes to punish with b12, then just return to trait zoning.
 
P

PLAYING TO WIN

Noob
chores said:
low damage (180 meterless and 270 for a bar midscreen) and trouble opening people up. her overhead option is reactable and -1000 on block. she needs meter to do anything and has trouble building meter. her oki setups are gimmicky. the only "real" mixup on knockdown is f3 close (same side) vs f3 far (crossup) which can be beat by delay wakeup and many wakeup attacks (it is easy to see coming as the startup animation takes forever)

with that being said her space control/whiff punishing with b12 is great. her trait zoning is strong since every hit is a knockdown. she is very strong in the air. he air actions are:
1) straight beam (can be held to create a persistent laser if predicting a jump)
2) diagonal down beam
3) teleport punch
4) air grab (whiff builds meter if opponent isnt doing anything)
5) float
6) dash

after a float she can perform any other air action, including air dash into another option. once the opponent respects your air options you can get in pretty easily. the problem is once youre in i feel like her only legit way to open people up is grab vs shimmy which i dont think will take you very far in this game.

she gets 30% meterless in the corner but all of her ambiguous corner stuff can be labbed. ending corner combos with different strings into float makes it visually impossible to know if her float j1 will hit same side or crossup, but every single setup she has behaves the same way every time, which is why i say the only "real" mixup is with reactable f3. people will learn all the others over time.

she has a lot of tools and i wouldnt call her bad, but once people really learn the matchup she will struggle against patient players. i think her real strength is zooming around the air zoning with trait then going in for a grab and waiting for mistakes to punish with b12, then just return to trait zoning.
Click to expand...

can u tell me more about her corner reset game? i know she has a re stand too
 
SaSSolino

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
chores said:
she needs meter to do anything and has trouble building meter.
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Doesn't her ice breath allow her to build good meter as she holds it? And doesn't the fact that when you MB her ice breath at range she gets plus frames, allowing her to get more pressure and more meter help?
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
SaSSolino said:
Doesn't her ice breath allow her to build good meter as she holds it? And doesn't the fact that when you MB it at range allow her to get more pressure and more meter?
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It's not real pressure, non mb ice breath is unsafe.

The option select for punishing breath is just hold down and mash 2, the D2 only comes out when she stops the breath and it won't come out if she meter burns it.
 
SaSSolino

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
Dankster Morgan said:
It's not real pressure, non mb ice breath is unsafe.

The option select for punishing breath is just hold down and mash 2, the D2 only comes out when she stops the breath and it won't come out if she meter burns it.
Click to expand...
that's a cool tech, but if she meter burns it, doesn't she get + frames at max range? allowing her to continue pressure?

EDIT: also I'm testing the tech now and it doesn't work at max range
 
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chores

chores

bad at things
PLAYING TO WIN said:
can u tell me more about her corner reset game? i know she has a re stand too
Click to expand...
the restand (212) is +0 so not very useful imo

what i mean in the corner is that ending any combo with float cancel causes her to float while the opponent ground recovers and she can then meaty a j1. the j1 can hit same side or crossup depending on the combo that lead into the float. so, for instance:

b12xBreath MB nj3 f23xFloat j1 f23xFloat j1 f23(opponent drops out of combo into ground recovery at this point)xFloat j1 <-- this j1 will meaty non-delayed recovery hitting crossup and leading to a new combo

vs

112xDB1 MB j3 f23xFloat j1 f23xFloat j1 f23xFloat(opponent drops out of combo into ground recovery at this point) j1 <-- this j1 will meaty non-delayed recovery hitting same side and leading to a new combo


both of these setups are visually indistinguishable, but they always hit the same way depending on the combo. supergirl has 5 or 6 permutations of this using different corner combos to lead into the meaty float j1. Its just a matter of learning them and knowing which side it will hit.


the "real" mixup is ending any combo in B21+3 for a mini splat and going directly into f3 (hold towards opponent for crossup, hold towards supergirl for same side) but again this is identifiable by the opponent since A) f3 has a long startup and B) delay wakeup avoids it

this of course leads to mind games with supergirl dashing out of f3 and grabbing (or whatever), delaying the f3 charge to account for delayed wakeup, or going for an instant air crossup j1
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
SaSSolino said:
that's a cool tech, but if she meter burns it, doesn't she get + frames at max range? allowing her to continue pressure?

EDIT: also I'm testing the tech now and it doesn't work at max range
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I don't even know what mb is on block but if she mbs it at max range she surely won't have enough frames for follow up pressure.
 
WiseM0nkey

WiseM0nkey

welcome to the ButtSlam
Lol at "Lantern is bad cause you can avoid his oki mix with delay wakeup".

You people really can't stand the idea of having to make a read ever in your life... you just want guaranteed stuff over and over. If this inj had no delayed wakeup, lantern vs pre patch scarecraw would be a 10-0 MU. And you fucks would've been totally fine with that and start making excuses as to why he "neeeeeeeeeds" that shit,.

FYI if they delay wakeup it's free pressure for you. Man up!
 
ATP2014

ATP2014

The best mediocre Batman
SaSSolino said:
that's a cool tech, but if she meter burns it, doesn't she get + frames at max range? allowing her to continue pressure?

EDIT: also I'm testing the tech now and it doesn't work at max range
Click to expand...
I have definitely tried this hold block and mash d2/b1 tech before vs Supergirl ice breath and have definitely been hit when she meter burns it. Pretty sure it's spacing dependent. At max range, there is a gap between the held breath and the MB ender, which means the opponent mashing this OS gets hit.

Also, while MB breath is never plus as far as I know, the spacing afterwards is usually perfect for Supergirl to D1, which also low profiles.
 
SaSSolino

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
Dankster Morgan said:
I don't even know what mb is on block but if she mbs it at max range she surely won't have enough frames for follow up pressure.
Click to expand...
Why not? It's a projectile, so it gets better frames at longer ranges. Besides, that's a good range for her.
 
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P

PLAYING TO WIN

Noob
chores said:
the restand (212) is +0 so not very useful imo

what i mean in the corner is that ending any combo with float cancel causes her to float while the opponent ground recovers and she can then meaty a j1. the j1 can hit same side or crossup depending on the combo that lead into the float. so, for instance:

b12xBreath MB nj3 f23xFloat j1 f23xFloat j1 f23(opponent drops out of combo into ground recovery at this point)xFloat j1 <-- this j1 will meaty non-delayed recovery hitting crossup and leading to a new combo

vs

112xDB1 MB j3 f23xFloat j1 f23xFloat j1 f23xFloat(opponent drops out of combo into ground recovery at this point) j1 <-- this j1 will meaty non-delayed recovery hitting same side and leading to a new combo


both of these setups are visually indistinguishable, but they always hit the same way depending on the combo. supergirl has 5 or 6 permutations of this using different corner combos to lead into the meaty float j1. Its just a matter of learning them and knowing which side it will hit.


the "real" mixup is ending any combo in B21+3 for a mini splat and going directly into f3 (hold towards opponent for crossup, hold towards supergirl for same side) but again this is identifiable by the opponent since A) f3 has a long startup and B) delay wakeup avoids it

this of course leads to mind games with supergirl dashing out of f3 and grabbing (or whatever), delaying the f3 charge to account for delayed wakeup, or going for an instant air crossup j1
Click to expand...
really nice stuff though, thx. seems something to build off though. if they are so focused on these particular setups it could open up other things


i am not ready to say any char is bad.... wayyyyyyy to early for that
 
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