Does He/She Need It?

[The Highlander]

Tremor's f2. He doesn't need it because that shit is too slow to ever be useful. Yaaay, it's an OH d2 (it does 14%) that is 5-6 times slower than any d2 in the fucking game. -_-

I would actually do better without that move in the game. I'll get it coming out of blockstun trying to do f12, and get blown up...

 

[llabslb]

Improving Sub Zeroes D1 and touching up on the proximity of the (ex) ice clone :

All his pokes are 9 frames D4 being -6 and D3 being -1 so it makes no sense to use D1 considering its a mid and is just as minus as his D4. Not saying the start up on his D1 should be improved but at least do something to it to give me a reason to use it. Another thing is the ice clone, I still get times where the ice clone will not come out or whiff this happens when I'm getting rushed down or strings that have gaps in them.

@zoofs you mentioned this

 

[B. Shazzy]

if your opponent always blocks low->high->low, b3xxEXLowSpecial into combo is an almost garanteed option, of course you can't abuse it. you are talking like 50/50s are the only way to open up an opponent, do you know how good Lao is without them? Tanya's just the same, just catch your opponent trying to get out of your pressure. and if she didn't build all the meter she would still be fine because she has cancels and a huge number of ways to finishe her tonfa thing, most of them safe even if guessed right. and you also have to consider that she has crazy good air game, 50/50 reversals, armor break and the best mobility in the game by far. she is top5 material indeed.

It's pretty clear you don't understand what I'm talking about and I'm not gonna explain it further for you to come back with "50/50 reversals" again. I wouldn't be able to respond without sounding condescending.

Also Lao and Tanya... their tools aren't comparable, and Laos should body Tanya. Take a guess why.

 

[Diego de Souza Costa]

"What's that? Oh yeah sure, we'll buff Quan Chi." - NRS

liek if u cry evrytiem...... D:

 

[zoofs]

Improving Sub Zeroes D1 and touching up on the proximity of the (ex) ice clone :

All his pokes are 9 frames D4 being -6 and D3 being -1 so it makes no sense to use D1 considering its a mid and is just as minus as his D4. Not saying the start up on his D1 should be improved but at least do something to it to give me a reason to use it. Another thing is the ice clone, I still get times where the ice clone will not come out or whiff this happens when I'm getting rushed down or strings that have gaps in them.

@zoofs you mentioned this

the point of d1 that makes no sense to me is the fact that I can't even find somewhat of a use for it outside of combos of course. Has the same hit adv as d3, more unsafe, worse on whiff, barely any of a difference in actual range and d4 probably has just as much of a vertical hitbox with not to mention way better range

I seriously don't understand why he even has this poke and would love someone to enlighten me as to a use for it, I wouldn't even ask for the buff as I don't really care and think it's unnecessary but he probably should have a 7/8f poke with the exact same frame data in its place.

 

[omooba]

all imma say is be careful what nerf you ask for
we don't want quan to be another raiden

 

[Skedar70]

Kitana: f+2 as an overhead
She needs it especially with her damage nerf, she's now normalized so you might as well give her the same tool as the rest of the cast especially since f+2 is one of her worst starters

This is not a good Idea. I main Kitana and I do just fine without this. This would probably make her broken. You have to take into consideration that kitana can get 30-35 out of a air hit from a fan. So although she doesn't have an overhead combo starter she has ways to get her damage and she mostly controls the air. Out of a punish she can get 30 to 33 and 40 to 45 with meter so her damage is still ok even after the nerf. She has also had some good buffs rising blades being able to combo made her really good.

 

[TopTierHarley]

Does Brood Mother optimal damage strings have to be hidden behind 1f links?

 

[The PantyChrist]

Does everyone's overhead and low combo starters really have to be grab immune when they are fully on the ground? Why is this still a thing

God damn I miss Billy da kid

Kung Laos jump 2 especially a jump back 2 it's basically either fuck work I'll jump 2 from half screen to get my pressure go AA I dare you! Or what you wanna play Footsies or close space dawg nah I'll just jump back 2 and catch you try to play the space game

Ggs no re's

He needs it

 

[I Am The LK]

Cage needs an unblockable nutpunch

 

[Thanilla Ice]

Give him a low bat, just make him do an animation when he sends it out

 

[Vigilante24]

Tanya and Predator need to be removed from this game.

 

[exflyingbooty]

This is not a good Idea. I main Kitana and I do just fine without this. This would probably make her broken. You have to take into consideration that kitana can get 30-35 out of a air hit from a fan. So although she doesn't have an overhead combo starter she has ways to get her damage and she mostly controls the air. Out of a punish she can get 30 to 33 and 40 to 45 with meter so her damage is still ok even after the nerf. She has also had some good buffs rising blades being able to combo made her really good.

Njp, b+3 is your best friend

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

Yes, Unstoppable NEEDS all of this.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/my-unstoppable-jason-rework.56717/

 

[I GOT HANDS]

if your opponent always blocks low->high->low, b3xxEXLowSpecial into combo is an almost garanteed option, of course you can't abuse it. you are talking like 50/50s are the only way to open up an opponent, do you know how good Lao is without them? Tanya's just the same, just catch your opponent trying to get out of your pressure. and if she didn't build all the meter she would still be fine because she has cancels and a huge number of ways to finishe her tonfa thing, most of them safe even if guessed right. and you also have to consider that she has crazy good air game, 50/50 reversals, armor break and the best mobility in the game by far. she is top5 material indeed.

.
Cmon dude, that 50/50 reversal shit is an absolute gimmick, especially since the point of the character is her Rekkas and that this is far more risky than what it's worth. And there is no way she has the best mobility. Subs Slide+back dashes beat her, Laos run+divekicks +TP beat her, she's undeniably got good mobility with TP+F2 but this is a game with Reptile and Kitana in it, if I wanted mobility I'd look to some of these characters. Lao can open up his opponents much easier because he has one of the best D4s in the game which spaces an F2 and B22 perfectly, his footsies are insane and you can't just let his pokes go uncontested all day because he gets so much pressure off them, his grab mix-ups really help with this as well. Tanyas combo starter is a low, meaning there is none of this, you just block loses her all day and second hit OH. "Her mix-up is safe if guessed right" guess what, every 50/50 in the game is safe if guessed right,mans they actually turn into a combo, Tanyas just gives +frames for more pressure.

There is no way in hell this character is top 5 IMO

 

[DrFolmer]

Mid knives are no joke. Is he seriously not considered a good zoner?

Good and one of the best are completely different things. When you mention the best, I think HQT and Summoner. Kano looks like a BB gun compared to that. It's a good tool keep opponents in check, but that one projectile is not a gamebreaker at all

 

[Zoidberg747]

In your expert Tanya opinion, how do I open somebody up if they always block Tanya low, high, then low? The covers all her options.

I'm gonna break it down for you step by step.

Throws.

.
Tanyas combo starter is a low, meaning there is none of this, you just block loses her all day and second hit OH.

B2 is a combo starter and is OH. It isnt a 50/50, but she does have OH starters.

 

[B. Shazzy]

Throws.



B2 is a combo starter and is OH. It isnt a 50/50, but she does have OH starters.

It's a universal mechanic, and she's rarely at advantage to setup throws. It's nothing unique to the character.

B2 is a high> high>overhead. Only overhead is F3 and its useless imo

 

[Zoidberg747]

It's a universal mechanic, and she's rarely at advantage to setup throws. It's nothing unique to the character.

B2 is a high> high>overhead. Only overhead is F3 and its useless imo

The B2 was a brain fart on my part. You're right.

As for throws although they are universal they help her offense out more than other characters. Throws are a good way for her to punish opponents who just sit there and block(other than her ridiculous amounts of chip damage but thats a different story.)

There are a ton of ways to set up throws with her, you just have to know how to condition your opponent:

B1 2+4 rekka pressure a few times. Then after B1 2+4 stop and do a throw. They will be so prepared for the rekka pressure that they probably wont tech the throw.

f2 or 112 tele cancel a few times in pressure. Make sure to do a string or EX rekkas afterwards(to get them to respect the tele cancel followups). After that you can either throw right after the tele-cancel or just throw instead of the tele cancel.

F2 from midscreen into either a tele-cancel or rekkas. After that you can do f2 into throw the next time.

Or my personal favorite: Run up throw(Thats universal but still works way too often).

Throws are a universal mechanic but with Tanya's offense being so good for conditioning your opponents in the first place, adding throws into the mix makes it that much harder for the opponent to deal with everything else. I'd argue all Tanya's should throw at least 5 times a round, maybe more. It adds up and will make it much easier for opponents to get frustrated and get "opened" up by things they shouldnt.

 

[QUAN-FUSION]

Does Erron really need a command grab?

 

[Zoidberg747]

Does Baraka really need to be in the game?

 

[B. Shazzy]

The B2 was a brain fart on my part. You're right.

As for throws although they are universal they help her offense out more than other characters. Throws are a good way for her to punish opponents who just sit there and block(other than her ridiculous amounts of chip damage but thats a different story.)

There are a ton of ways to set up throws with her, you just have to know how to condition your opponent:

B1 2+4 rekka pressure a few times. Then after B1 2+4 stop and do a throw. They will be so prepared for the rekka pressure that they probably wont tech the throw.

f2 or 112 tele cancel a few times in pressure. Make sure to do a string or EX rekkas afterwards(to get them to respect the tele cancel followups). After that you can either throw right after the tele-cancel or just throw instead of the tele cancel.

F2 from midscreen into either a tele-cancel or rekkas. After that you can do f2 into throw the next time.

Or my personal favorite: Run up throw(Thats universal but still works way too often).

Throws are a universal mechanic but with Tanya's offense being so good for conditioning your opponents in the first place, adding throws into the mix makes it that much harder for the opponent to deal with everything else. I'd argue all Tanya's should throw at least 5 times a round, maybe more. It adds up and will make it much easier for opponents to get frustrated and get "opened" up by things they shouldnt.

She's not plus enough to respect her options after most things and that's the issue. I think Tanya would have to setup some heavy conditioning and a pinch of online or oki to achieve success. Throws are strong for the entire cast because they're basically untechable but they won't make a "bad" pressure any better.

You brought up tele cancels, which is important because off anything but f2 xx tele cancel she's pretty much getting reversal thrown by the opponent.

Tanya's good, but she's smoke and mirrors with calls of "top 5" from people who haven't labbed her this patch.

 

[The_Tile]

If you block 3 knives, walk in, you've taken like 5% damage and are close. 3-4% blocking EX Knives is in line with MKX Blocked EX Projectiles. Hardly game breaking. Try blocking Pyro after shroud or Liu after Buffed Fist, both meterless.

The only thing I quoted that you said was that Cyber has some of the best zoning, which is false. It's only good if people don't know how to get in. Liu has better, Kitana has better, QC has better, HQT, has better, etc. The only "zoning" character that has inferior zoning is Kenshi, which isn't saying much.

In a thread of "he needs it", Cyber "needs" that safe Armor'd non combo reversal because he literally has no Mixups in a game where 95% of the cast have amazing pressure and/or 50/50s, weak zoning in a game where multiple characters get 30% zoning conversions, and he has extremely limited options offensively.

Kano is a character with tools with little room for error imo. You have to have perfect spacing, neutral and know when to press your offense or back off. His knives are really good but like you've already said, because of their damage you can't just throw them out willy nilly else you'll get punished for more than like 10 of those knives lol.

He is quite downplayed though imo, Cyber is a solid character and his other variations cover bad MUs really well. He's just a fair character with simple options that requires fundamentals in a game full of crazy, overwhelming offense.

 

[The_Tile]

B3 is always a low. Everything else highs or mids. Where's the mixup there?

Stagger B3

 

[The_Tile]

Cage needs an unblockable charged B2

Fixed that for you

Laos should body Tanya. Take a guess why.

Because Lao has a 7F armored reversal which is really good versus pressure characters as his armor can't be stuffed. He's a good choice versus Liu, Cage and himself for the same reasons.