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Dash mechanic discussion

Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Some people really must have pretty bad execution to cry over not being able to run cancels, lmao.

Whatever we did with dashes in mk9 we will be doing with run, the only difference is that now backdashing costs meter, and you have to press block twice fairly quick to dashblock, wish leaves a few frames to punish blind rushdown ppl.

The mechanic is godlike, you can fake offense and backdash out of runs to bait strings or what ever and then punish, why is this so hard to understand?

Game looks awesome, and zoning fools Chile out, the without endurance meter they can't expand combos, and they can't break either. Why is everyone freaking out over nothing, is MKX damn it.

Lol. The risk reward in movement, breaking and attacking, zoning is there, if you don't like this game you gotta be bunch of idiots.
 
W

WAR-BLAST

Mortal
Sultani said:
A valid point was raised about why dashing would be preferable at all in any situation. The entire point of dash cancelling is the ability to shorten dash distance. So, from what I gather, you can do that by holding block and then dashing (running), which would allow you to cancel the run at any point afterwards... far, close, rightaway, whenever. Why would you dash? ever?
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While running would probably be more useful to cover space, it seems like it has more to do with how the designers set up running to work. Running/backdashing/leaping off interactables, depletes the endurance meter, and these movements can only be accessed with it. But by how much I'm unsure.

And since forward dashing doesn't cost meter, it's just another way of getting in closer too if you don't have meter. Albeit maybe it's not as good as running because you can't cancel into an attack or into block. But that's where the whole strategy part comes into play of knowing when to use meter. I say all this based on the info provided by others.

This thread mentions it takes about 2-3 seconds to refill the meter completely. http://www.trmk.org/forums/showthread.php/31025-Endurance-Running-meter

Heh... now bitter people online can really say you're 'running away' lol.
 
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SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
It's still early so only time will tell, but today, on June 12th, it sounds like zoning takes a huge hit.

We are talking about a running mechanic that has a recharging bar of 2 seconds. Ok. We are talking 1 simple back dash eating a full stamina bar. Uh huh. We are talking about only being able to run forward, and all actions to advance have little to no penalty. Right. We are talking about being able to use the environment to "maneuver away", yet those same tools will be even stronger for rush down characters to "move in". I see. We are talking most likely at least 35% of the cast minimum having teleports. Got it.

Unless they plan on giving zoners some serious zoning tools and less requirement of stamina bar/meter/something, then I don't see how else these mechanics would "benefit" zoners nearly as much as they do rush down players.
 
Ilthuain

Ilthuain

Lost in a labyrinth of egoism
SaltShaker said:
We are talking about being able to use the environment to "maneuver away", yet those same tools will be even stronger for rush down characters to "move in".
Click to expand...
How do you figure? If someone uses one of those pylons on the cove to close distance against a neutral zoner, it looks like they'll just be jumping into some free damage.

SaltShaker said:
We are talking most likely at least 35% of the cast minimum having teleports. Got it.
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Now you're just being silly.
 
haketh

haketh

Champion
The fact that you have to hold Block to keep running is pretty big for zoning and controlling space, means you can't just start a run and instantly end up blocking and hopefully it's like KOF and BB where you don't immediately go to neutral when you stop running.
 
haketh

haketh

Champion
General M2Dave said:
I do not understand your point. Killer Instinct is a terrible example. The game is all about rush down. Very boring. I hope Mortal Kombat X is nothing like it.
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Then look at a game like BB where the ebst character in the game is the best because it's extremely hard to get a hit on her because of strong space control and zoning tools in a game with tons of movement options
Then the previous games where Nu and Lambda were Top and High Tier characters
Arcana Heart 3 where Scharlot was Top Tier because of how good her zoning is, same with Nazuna nand that game has some of the most freeform and strongest movement in any game
Melty Blood where Nero is Top 3 because characters just don't get to play because his zoning and normals are so strong and then you have {. Ciel who's an extremely strong zoner


Strong movement tools does not all of a sudden mean Zoning is dead and rushdown is king
 
RNLDRGN

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
RIF said:
It is possible to create a zoner given the current mechanics of the game:

- The could make a zoning teleporter. The agility meter could be used to escape 'run' pressure and mount a zoning-based offense.
- They could make a character that drains agility.
- A character that constructs barriers that must be run through, thereby reducing the damage potential of the opponent when they do get in.

It is likely there will be at least one dedicated zoner. My guess is, that character will be very strong. (I just hope it's a male character)
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I normally hate all the speculation on stuff we don't know--but these are some really cool ideas right here.
 
Art

Art

Grave_Intent
Tom Brady said:
it doesnt kill combos. In fact, the run feature enhances combos.
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@TomBrady ...Sounds like it would be cool if it didn't also limit your ability to use the new interactables. Boon talked about some of the interactables as escape options, so that would imply you can easily get yourself trapped in a corner from the sound of it, and not be able to use the interactable-escape options. I personally wish that in just dashing the character could run and be able to cancel it with an attack/block without a meter. Sort of like Spinal in Killer Instinct how he keeps running. This would make for less UI/meter management and a faster game-play overall. Just my 2 cents..
 
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M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Jimmypotato said:
You should look into competitive call of Duty and Halo, all about shooting things at people and not having to get close to them,

You might like it.
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I dislike FPS.

I simply want all fighting styles to be represented (i.e., rush down, footsies, zoning, even anti-zoning, etc.).

Why do you some of you fools only want to able to get in for free and mash buttons? The game will be one dimensional and boring.

haketh said:
Then look at a game like BB where the ebst character in the game is the best because it's extremely hard to get a hit on her because of strong space control and zoning tools in a game with tons of movement options.
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Show me a high level video.
 
haketh

haketh

Champion
General M2Dave said:
Show me a high level video.
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Skip to Grand Finals if you'd like but Bananaken is in this vid and he's debatable the best or second best Kokonoe in America, he likes to go in a bit much though but Koko is a very versatile character

Serizawa Mu-12

Gentarou Nu-13 OCVing mad teams

Hell Mu & nu seem like they were made for you
 
Shock

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
Founder
O.G.
Mikemetroid said:
haha oh man let's hope that @Shock likes this game for once so he can just dominate everyone with UMK3 skittles
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Gotta see how this mechanic is implemented. Some of the stuff in MK9 that they tried to emulate 2D concepts with just failed miserably IMO. Run jabs were nasty because it was a combination of fast advancing and canceling a chunk of the jab animation. If you can't cancel the jab animation, it shouldn't be too bad.
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Ilthuain said:
How do you figure? If someone uses one of those pylons on the cove to close distance against a neutral zoner, it looks like they'll just be jumping into some free damage.
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You and i both know it isn't that simple. That's one pylon on one stage, and I'd be willing to wager characters will have their tools mixed with run mixed with environment that will make that type of background usage hard to punish. I'm not talking about random scrubs randomly flipping and getting punished, I'm talking about people who will at least learn how to play with skill.

There has been nothing shown or said about these new mechanics that sound like they benefit zoners "more" than they do rush down characters nor that it is "even" between the two. I'm not saying something won't change because we are still in the early stages, but as of right now it is clear.


Now you're just being silly.
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Am I? How many characters had teleports in Injustice? Better yet how many DLC characters had teleports in Injustice? Think about that. That is the direction they are heading because of the screams of the casuals. There aren't going to be "less" teleporters in MKX there will be the same amount or more. At least One-third of the cast is a very realistic assessment.
 
IrishMantis

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
General M2Dave said:
I dislike FPS.

I simply want all fighting styles to be represented (i.e., rush down, footsies, zoning, even anti-zoning, etc.).

Why do you some of you fools only want to able to get in for free and mash buttons? The game will be one dimensional and boring.



Show me a high level video.
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What happens if theres a Zoner Char that has one of its Variations of not eating Endurance Meter When Backdashing, it could also have a Zatanna like Tele,
it could also have traps (i.e Ice Clone) that make the Op think twice about Charging in
 
Ilthuain

Ilthuain

Lost in a labyrinth of egoism
SaltShaker said:
You and i both know it isn't that simple. That's one pylon on one stage, and I'd be willing to wager characters will have their tools mixed with run mixed with environment that will make that type of background usage hard to punish. I'm not talking about random scrubs randomly flipping and getting punished, I'm talking about people who will at least learn how to play with skill.

There has been nothing shown or said about these new mechanics that sound like they benefit zoners "more" than they do rush down characters nor that it is "even" between the two. I'm not saying something won't change because we are still in the early stages, but as of right now it is clear.
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It's not "clear" just because you ASSUME that there is "one pylon on one stage". First, it looks like there are several pylons on that stage, and other stages have movement-based interactions. Second, you assert that there will be tools that make coming in off an interaction safe, but you don't assume there will be tools that make the same usage unsafe?

Have we even seen a real match yet, or seen a zoner? There's no way to conclude anything about the dynamics of the endurance system interacting with the zoning game because we don't have nearly enough information.

SaltShaker said:
Am I? How many characters had teleports in Injustice? Better yet how many DLC characters had teleports in Injustice? Think about that. That is the direction they are heading because of the screams of the casuals. There aren't going to be "less" teleporters in MKX there will be the same amount or more. At least One-third of the cast is a very realistic assessment.
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Yes, you are being silly. MKX is not Injustice. "Screams of the casuals"? Get real, man. I'm sure NRS listens to feedback, but your argument isn't remotely logical. "There will be many teleports BECAUSE casuals." As long as we're making correlational fallacies up, why not say "there will be fewer teleports BECAUSE casuals" or "there will be more AAs BECAUSE casuals"?

Also, the "screams of casuals" don't influence development nearly as much as you seem to think they do.
 
Vulcan Hades

Vulcan Hades

Champion
Stamina management? Looks like my Dark Souls 2 grinding is finally going to pay off. :)

I'm not convinced this mechanic necessarily favors rushdown characters. Because those characters will constantly be using a lot of endurance just to get in, then once they do get in they will have very little endurance left to capitalize or get any serious pressure going (or at least not for long before they have to go back to neutral and get back some endurance). While zoners are ok with using minimal endurance.
 
haketh

haketh

Champion
Vulcan Hades said:
Stamina management? Looks like my Dark Souls 2 grinding is finally going to pay off. :)

I'm not convinced this mechanic necessarily favors rushdown characters. Because those characters will constantly be using a lot of endurance just to get in, then once they do get in they will have very little endurance left to capitalize or get any serious pressure going (or at least not for long before they have to go back to neutral and get back some endurance). While zoners are ok with using minimal endurance.
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And due to that they'll be able to escape and burn endurance to get out of bad situations more often.
 
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