Dash mechanic discussion

[fr stack]

idk.

concern 1. trying to block after dashing will result in a run if done too early

concern 2. if you cant break without full stamina, i would think everyone is just going to walk back and forth and avoid dashing or running altogether (in neutral)

point one :id say holding back and block after a dash would reset to neutral , but we'll find out come the demo
point two :sounds like a good thing to me

 

[Peckapowa]

Where did I say its classless or unintentional? I'm entitled to an opinion, and my opinion is zoning (especially pre-patch DS) was fucking annoying as hell to play against and just plain retarded. How does somebody even have fun zoning like that for wins? Something i'll never understand. But rest assure I know, it's "all part of the game".

i want a game where you have to be good at every aspect of fighting games, for some reason most players who take these games relatively seriously, seem to have all sorts of mixups and setups they like, but are clueless in zoning game and clueless as a zoner. The lack of skillful zoners makes me wonder if zoning is more challenging, or people are just too stubborn to learn the more refined aspect of games. I just want mkx to allow me to play any playstyle i want, and be rewarded against those who are inferior in all aspects and who don't have the will to learn how to zone.

 

[GhosT]

i want a game where you have to be good at every aspect of fighting games, for some reason most players who take these games relatively seriously, seem to have all sorts of mixups and setups they like, but are clueless in zoning game and clueless as a zoner. The lack of skillful zoners makes me wonder if zoning is more challenging, or people are just too stubborn to learn the more refined aspect of games. I just want mkx to allow me to play any playstyle i want, and be rewarded against those who are inferior in all aspects and who don't have the will to learn how to zone.

First of all the majority of characters will not allow you to play any style you want. For the most part the characters that will allow that are the top tier/broken characters.

You just play characters that let you do that in IGAU lol spoiled

 

[Peckapowa]

ST - Chun Li, Blanka, Dhalsim. O. Sagat is the only good zoner in that game because of quick recovery on low tiger shot. I don't know much about any of those other games, so I suppose it's not that no one has heard of them, it's just that I haven't. lol.

It's just my preference really, but my opinion is simply that watching Chris G play Morrigan makes Marvel look even shittier than it already is. Watching Pig (or anyone else) play Kenshi makes MK9 look fucking terrible. Watching deathstroke make IGAU look fucking aweful. The discussion isn't even how strong the zoners are. I don't hate that style because of the strength or weakness of it, I hate it because it makes games look fucking retarded. I'm all in favor of minimizing things that make games look fucking retarded.

league of legends looks boring but people love it competitively and it very in depth.

there is a difference between broken spammable footsie tools (i.e.) kenshi's shoulder (kenshi and zod are rushaway characters), and people sucking at dealing with gunshots in the beginning of the game, now deathstroke isn't even a good zoner. You look at a character like guile or dhalsim, those characters take an intense amount of skill and dhalsim is a pure zoner that takes lots of careful thinking and patience for both players to play. I want really good zoning but i want it more like dhalsim rather than shoulder charges. Making a game pure up close is limited, and good players who enjoy playing mistake free and slowly widdling down the opponent and controlling space shouldn't be penalized just because impatient adhd mediocre players enjoy watching big combos and attempting playing mindless guessing games and trying to get in for free. I want my rushdown chars to be like johnny cage or yun, not like flash, or kung lao or god forbid doomsday. A good rushdown should either be a really mobile good at getting in and solid up close (yun) or the vice versa, decent at getting in, good at footsies, and raw up close. Characters that are insane up close should be limited in getting in.

 

[Peckapowa]

First of all the majority of characters will not allow you to play any style you want. For the most part the characters that will allow that are the top tier/broken characters.

You just play characters that let you do that in IGAU lol spoiled

read my next post dickweed, Martian would be a great example of a good zoning style if he wasn't so amazing in other areas, i just want the game to reward sektor and baraka players and not sonya and kung lao players. I am an extremely spacing oriented player and i want that to be rewarded, I'll acknowledge zods unfairness as a zoner in theory

And the problem is to make an interesting game with lots of cool tools, it would require tons of patching overtime to keep it relatively balanced. The more tools and more characters the more variables that have to and won't be balanced early in. Only way to make a balanced game is to make every character the same or have 3 characters, one rushdown, one zoner, one in between, like starcraft and continously balance it with high level players and constant patching. Which is why i want patches in mk x

 

[SaltShaker]

Peckapowa gets it.

 

[GhosT]

read my next post dickweed, Martian would be a great example of a good zoning style if he wasn't so amazing in other areas, i just want the game to reward sektor and baraka players and not sonya and kung lao players. I am an extremely spacing oriented player and i want that to be rewarded, I'll acknowledge zods unfairness as a zoner in theory

And the problem is to make an interesting game with lots of cool tools, it would require tons of patching overtime to keep it relatively balanced. The more tools and more characters the more variables that have to and won't be balanced early in. Only way to make a balanced game is to make every character the same or have 3 characters, one rushdown, one zoner, one in between, like starcraft and continously balance it with high level players and constant patching. Which is why i want patches in mk x

lol dickweed? <3
Pecka spinal was an interesting zoner and a thinking character. You gave up on him before exploring any of his options. So you want these rules only to apply to strong arguably broken characters?
Characters from a few FG that have these skillsets.
martian manhunter, Kabal, zod( can maintain pressure with trait) Kenshi ( above average normals and + frame allowed for more than pure zoning) CYRAX. Sonya soft zoner with above average projectile? And more i dont have time to mention. But you see my trend?
Character versions ala mkx could be what you are looking for, or could be a possible 70+ reasons for it to suck. (anti statics words not mine)
You do a good job at breaking down your characters and games, but until I see you do it with an average tier I will always read your posts with a troll face lol

 

[Peckapowa]

lol dickweed? <3
Pecka spinal was an interesting zoner and a thinking character. You gave up on him before exploring any of his options. So you want these rules only to apply to strong arguably broken characters?
Characters from a few FG that have these skillsets.
martian manhunter, Kabal, zod( can maintain pressure with trait) Kenshi ( above average normals and + frame allowed for more than pure zoning) CYRAX. Sonya soft zoner with above average projectile? And more i dont have time to mention. But you see my trend?
Character versions ala mkx could be what you are looking for, or could be a possible 70+ reasons for it to suck. (anti statics words not mine)
You do a good job at breaking down your characters and games, but until I see you do it with an average tier I will always read your posts with a troll face lol

the dickweed was meant lovingly, i would have stuck with ki if i enjoyed it, it came naturally to me when i first picked it up, but i don't love it, i guarantee you someone will be broken out of ki, either sabrewulf glacius or fulgore or that fuck. and i said day one spinal would be ridiculous or low tier

 

[Peckapowa]

lol dickweed? <3
Pecka spinal was an interesting zoner and a thinking character. You gave up on him before exploring any of his options. So you want these rules only to apply to strong arguably broken characters?
Characters from a few FG that have these skillsets.
martian manhunter, Kabal, zod( can maintain pressure with trait) Kenshi ( above average normals and + frame allowed for more than pure zoning) CYRAX. Sonya soft zoner with above average projectile? And more i dont have time to mention. But you see my trend?
Character versions ala mkx could be what you are looking for, or could be a possible 70+ reasons for it to suck. (anti statics words not mine)
You do a good job at breaking down your characters and games, but until I see you do it with an average tier I will always read your posts with a troll face lol

i do a good job breaking down chars so i won't be crying all day like long anti-static when i pick the gem.

 

[Dizzy]

idk.

concern 1. trying to block after dashing will result in a run if done too early

concern 2. if you cant break without full stamina, i would think everyone is just going to walk back and forth and avoid dashing or running altogether (in neutral)

I thought about #1 as well, and I think that it will be addressed. Some people have said run actually performed by holding forward after a dash, not pressing block. So not sure which one is true. Hold forward makes more sense though and wouldnt really cause any problems.

#2 I think running would be risky in the neutral game then, which is good seeing how fast it is. Looks like forward dash doesnt cost meter, so thats fine to use

 

[THTB]

"Pretty much close enough". So basically, not really at all you're just grasping for straws to prove your point. Gotcha.

I'm...not grasping for straws, though?

Both your messages I quoted are honestly saying what I said. And again, for as much as you don't like it, I don't understand how you can sit there and play a 2D fighter knowing it exists.

 

[THTB]

people sucking at dealing with gunshots in the beginning of the game, now deathstroke isn't even a good zoner.

To be completely honest, though, there were characters that were put into a trap for blocking low gunshots, and pretty much either had to walk and take the chip or jump over the low gunshots (and risk getting air shot, and then Deathstroke could oftentimes trait up and net some unblockable damage.

As much as people consider him nerfed by the scrubs, they do forget what the character was able to do before he got nerfed. He wasn't just a good zoner...he pretty much was the best.

 

[Peckapowa]

To be completely honest, though, there were characters that were put into a trap for blocking low gunshots, and pretty much either had to walk and take the chip or jump over the low gunshots (and risk getting air shot, and then Deathstroke could oftentimes trait up and net some unblockable damage.

As much as people consider him nerfed by the scrubs, they do forget what the character was able to do before he got nerfed. He wasn't just a good zoner...he pretty much was the best.

he should have gotten nerfed maybe not as hard, consider how versatile he was along with it.

 

[MagnetoHalfway]

Not those exact words, but...

Pretty much close enough. The strong point of a 2D fighter IS the projectile game. The zoning. The space control. The projectile is a big part of why 2D fighters are STILL popular. To sit there and be like "I don't understand how someone has fun zoning" is a really big indicator that you basically don't understand what even makes these types of fighting games appealing. Tbh, it actually confuses me that people DO play 2D fighters, yet say stuff like that.

Play a 3D fighter if you do not want to deal with someone throwing fireballs at you relentlessly.

I Like you. I'll be keeping an eye on you