D2s Need To Be Unsafe

[Trustful_Whale]

I dont mean mashing per say, i mean pressing d1 and pretty much immediately pressing s1 because you only have a 2 frame window to jail on a d1 hit. What I am getting at is it is hard to jail consistently offline on a confirm. You are NOT confirming it into a jail online, you have to guess the d1 will hit. This is specific to my character obviously based on the +9 on hit d1 vs the 7f s1.

I see what you mean now. Calling that mashing is confusing, though.

 

[Cobainevermind87]

In both scenarios, if it was blocked, that means I was already at point blank range,

Jade, Sindel, and Shao laugh at that.

 

[Matix218]

I see what you mean now. Calling that mashing is confusing, though.

Yeah i should have not said mashing. Mashing is the opponent's d2 that ends up beating your failed attempt at what should jail off of a hit d1 due to online lol

 

[Cobainevermind87]

People aren't throwing them out all willy nilly because they know they are safe. They do it because the keep landing them. They keep landing them because everyone wants to run at them with highs.

They have just defeated autopiloting high starting pressure with a strategy. Make the adjustment with a counter strategy. Force them to respect alternative forms of pressure before running at them with only highs. The recognize A and counter play with B of fighting games is present in d2 usage. I'm not personally claiming to be good at making such adjustments, but the mind games and options are fully available around this stuff.

I'm referring to characters that have more range on their d2 than some characters' mids, it was my mistake for not elaborating. I was on TYM covertly at work.

 

[RTM2004]

Good Topic - D2/Uppercut are powerful in MK11

KB ability feature added to D2, yes.

When blocked, it’s very much safe with pushback. It should have reversal consequences even with that much safe pushback. Just saying.

In this game, only real way to punish D2 is make it whiff in front of you or step back to punish the whiffed D2. Flawless Block, get out of here...

Examples of ridiculous D2’s are Shao Kahn, Joker, mini low profile Terminator D2, Sindel (slower start up), Jade, Liu Kang etc

Comparing to MK9 D2’s there where only two bullshit ones I can remember.... Quan Chi D2 and Sonya D2, hurtbox in front of them, on top of them and behind them in addition to being 7f PLUS if opponent lands behind them Quran Chi can do D1~Trance and Sonya did D4~Cartwheel conversion combos into Military Stance or Rune Trap set ups.

MKX D2’s I don’t recall glaring problems with characters because D2 were unsafe as Hell. Maybe Sonya D2 complain a little ....The only complaint I remember was Mileena’s AA Ball Roll into 30% damage combos Lol

With that said, the poster isn’t advocating for a NERF petition but more so balance the D2’s in MK11 to bring fairness. Baiting whiff D2 I’m good with. However, the tremendous pushback on blocked D2 and not even reversal specials can directly punish it, that’s the real issue. Safe D2’s on block without punishment consequences is too ridiculous. Why not do it again and again D2’s on block for safety space?

A blocked D2 should be punishable on a universal standard reversal special... Sub Zero’s Slide, Jade’s Glow Kick, Sheeva’s Command Grab, Cassie’s/Nightwolf’s Shoulder Charge, Liu Kang’s Flying Kick, Sonya’s Leg Takedown, Baraka’s Blade Charge etc.

This a very good topic props to the creator who addressed it. I don’t remember seeing one made to address the MK11 glaring issues surrounding D2 complex.

 

[Matix218]

IMO all making d2s universally punishable would ultimately do is buff the top tier characters with oppressive rushdown like Jacqui. That seems like a bad idea to me. At least d2 is a tool all characters can use in some situations to get characters like Jacqui the heck off. Especially online with latency added to the mix...

 

[MK9]

Why can’t u just accept the fact you have to respect their uppercuts more than other characters.

worry more about the bs fatal blow pushback and bullshit armor than the fact I can check you with a d2

 

[xKhaoTik]

Why can’t u just accept the fact you have to respect their uppercuts more than other characters.

worry more about the bs fatal blow pushback and bullshit armor than the fact I can check you with a d2

How is it BS when it’s unsafe? Every single fatal blow is unsafe. The armor doesn’t even start up until the 8th frame so they can be stuffed pretty easily.

 

[Cobainevermind87]

Why can’t u just accept the fact you have to respect their uppercuts more than other characters.

worry more about the bs fatal blow pushback and bullshit armor than the fact I can check you with a d2

"Worry about the things that irritate me, don't voice the things that irritate you."

 

[Jbog]

My only bitch with d2 is the backside hitboxes!! D2 need to be direction specific!! Cross up and getting caught by someone's garbage d2 mashing is totally annoying!

 

[Jbog]

That's more of a side effect of more than half of the cast being something like +8 or +9 on a successful poke with a 7 to 8 frame jail, so you just gotta do shit instead of hit-confirming it.
If everybody was +14-+15 on their pokes like Spawn, Robocop, Joker etc. you would have no trouble confirming your pressure off pokes.

Only characters who should have shitty pokes are 9f mid characters imo.

1000 percent agree!! Pokes all plus 14 on hit!!

 

[MK9]

How is it BS when it’s unsafe? Every single fatal blow is unsafe. The armor doesn’t even start up until the 8th frame so they can be stuffed pretty easily.

Really they are unsafe, you must have skills that nobody else does To be able to counter every blocked fatal blow.

you should not be able to activate a FB in between a gap , and absorb the next hit. I do it all the time, it’s crap.

they should not have armor and u miss it you lose it.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Really they are unsafe, you must have skills that nobody else does To be able to counter every blocked fatal blow.

you should not be able to activate a FB in between a gap , and absorb the next hit. I do it all the time, it’s crap.

they should not have armor and u miss it you lose it.

I mean it doesn’t take skill to go into the lab, look at frame data and see how to punish. If you can’t punish a FB on block then that’s a YOU problem. Not the game

 

[Matix218]

Really they are unsafe, you must have skills that nobody else does To be able to counter every blocked fatal blow.

you should not be able to activate a FB in between a gap , and absorb the next hit. I do it all the time, it’s crap.

they should not have armor and u miss it you lose it.

Fatal blows are very punishable now. Vanilla some were too safe. Now i blow them up when i block one.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Fatal blows are very punishable now. Vanilla some were too safe. Now i blow them up when i block one.

I’m pretty sure they’ve been the same on block since launch. I don’t remember any FB being too safe

 

[Matix218]

I’m pretty sure they’ve been the same on block since launch. I don’t remember any FB being too safe

The first major patch made some of the safer ones more negative IIRC

 

[Cobainevermind87]

I don't remember if it was the frames or adjustment to pushback, but they definitely made them easier to punish

 

[WA-Finest]

What am I ignoring?
You’ve mentioned how they aren’t safe...twice, and both times I’ve corrected you.
You mentioned how it’s not rewarding and I’ve corrected you...twice
You mentioned how they are one and done and I told you that it doesn’t matter.

Anything else you said was pretty irrelevant but I’m not ignoring anything. You made your opinions and I countered them with facts.

I asked "should S1s be unsafe because you can get full combo damage on them with almost every character?" If D2s need to be unsafe why is okay for only some characters to have a 7-8 frame move that can actually combo every time rather than just a single time when kountering a high? Why can some characters actually be POSITIVE and have staggers on this move if having a single move that's not hitconfirmable or cancelable be safe on block is busted?

This dude really did it again

 

[trufenix]

Jade, Sindel, and Shao laugh at that.

Three super high tier characters who definitely need to be punished harder more often!

 

[Cobainevermind87]

Three super high tier characters who definitely need to be punished harder more often!

I forgot Liu's and Joker's D2s, forgive me.

 

[Pygmy_Potato]

Y'all attacking each other so harshly makes this thread a mess. But I think we can all appreciate that losing a laggy kombat league match bc you missed a jail into your high starter by a frame and get blown up by d2kb into fatal blow for 50% is one of the worst feels this game can give.

 

[trufenix]

I forgot Liu's and Joker's D2s, forgive me.

Okay, so MAYBE nerf those two, and only those two, but again, adding a block punish to a move that is already high and only useable once? Okay. That's like Injustice balancing logic.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

I could see D2's eventually getting the same overcompensation treatment armored launchers did in MKX: all toned way down, but with no regard for the characters to whom they're crucially important, Jade and Noob Saibot especially. That universal nerf back then was 100% necessary, but it straight up ruined Balanced Kenshi and Lackey Torr, and screwed Jax over completely. I would love to see this ultra-casual crap be put in check, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it go terribly wrong.

 

[BecomingDeath13]

There are literally characters in this game with no unsafe strings. There is a character with no unsafe strings or flawless block gaps, there are characters in this game that get punished for restanding their opponents, there are characters who have mids that are being low profiled and yet we need to fix d2. I'd take any a change to any of those things than a change to d2. Especially since buttons should do as they are supposed to do whether the opponent has a small hit box or not

Still love getting my D1 as SZ low profiled.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Yes. I've been saying that since day 1. Mashers just do it with minimal risk and they are often rewarded with a crushing blow.

If somebody is literally mashing d2, just take a half step back and then full combo them for it on whiff.

Mashers are honestly the easiest types of opponents to beat, because they don't consider frame data. You just let them hang themselves.