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D2s Need To Be Unsafe

xKhaoTik

Kitana Kahn
I’m not one to complain much, but I definitely call bullshit when I see it. D2s are ridiculous in this game as they have very little risk with tremendous reward.

An attack that leads into at least 30% guaranteed for EVERY character in the game should NOT be safe, nor should they have that ridiculous pushback.

It doesn’t make sense to me. MK9 D2s were safe but either they were too slow or recovered to slow to make any use of it. Some can use it during combos but that’s different. MKX D2s were unsafe af. Yes they had pushback but with the plethora of advancing attacks, it didn’t matter. This game fucked the whole equation up. A combo starter with so much power behind it has no business being safe at all.


Oh and before you say “flawless block bro”, stfu now.


Discuss
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

VOTE FOR ANGELMAN
Premium Supporter
100% agreed.

One of the many flaws in the meta that make this game more casual than competitive, especially with a mechanic as powerful as D2 Krushing Blows attached to them.

Two of the scrubbiest tactics ever put in practice, uppercuts and reckless jumping, have a more prominent place in this game than any fighter I've ever seen. Takes too much of the fun out of winning.
 

Marlow

Premium
Premium Supporter
Agreed. Were D2's unsafe in Injustice 2? I know they're different games, but the frame data is normally pretty similar between the two of them.
 
100% agree, especially when certain characters can use the push back provided by their D2's for safety while simultaneously acting as a reliable anti-air (Jade, Sindel, etc.). The existence of the low-startup frame D2 that leads into a KB makes high attacks borderline useless a majority of the time and, as a result, severely hampers certain characters' offense. They are the reason advancing and low-startup frame mids are king in this game.
 

Saltea Moonspell

"I'm a zoner, with ma boner"
Premium Supporter
Seriously, how delusional you must be, to implement such mechanic when you have in mind competitive model. I don't even want to go over the "Jumpins" in this game because it won't be a pretty picture paint in NRS colors.



Unless, the competitive part, was a part of marketing idea.
 

WA-Finest

Sub-Zero Wannabe
Actually what are yall smoking? D2 isn't a combo starter it has a KB you can do 1 time to get a combo assuming your opponent doesn't breakaway immediately. Any other time you take a flat 140 which is the same as a throw. Most are also like -9 which is unsafe and pretty much allows you a full dash in before your opponent can start to move again. It's also a high so on read you can duck and full punish. I don't see the problem
 

Espio

Savage & Sassy
Lead Moderator
I mean.....any nerfs or changes to down 2 should have the affected characters appropriately compensated in other places since they made down 2 so central to certain roster members.


Also, I'd be fine wit down 2's not being a crushing blow and change it out to give everyone a universal counter crushing blow that rewards people for whiff punishing people, but I'm not pressed one way or the other about them.


Agreed. Were D2's unsafe in Injustice 2? I know they're different games, but the frame data is normally pretty similar between the two of them.
See below. Unsafe, but contextually if you can cancel something unsafe into something safe is it really unsafe? I'd say no lol.



Yes they were unsafe in I2
Which didn't matter because you could cancel them on block into safe specials which I did often with every single one of my characters including Blue Beetle and Strarfire. If we're gonna discuss this topic it should be discussed candidly and contextually.
 

YoungTeezy 305

Work Hard Play Hard
I mean.....any nerfs or changes to down 2 should have the affected characters appropriately compensated in other places since they made down 2 so central to certain roster members.


Also, I'd be fine wit down 2's not being a crushing blow and change it out to give everyone a universal counter crushing blow that rewards people for whiff punishing people, but I'm not pressed one way or the other about them.




See below. Unsafe, but contextually if you can cancel something unsafe into something safe is it really unsafe? I'd say no lol.





Which didn't matter because you could cancel them on block into safe specials which I did often with every single one of my characters including Blue Beetle and Strarfire. If we're gonna discuss this topic it should be discussed candidly and contextually.
True
 

thlityoursloat

kick kick
I mean.....any nerfs or changes to down 2 should have the affected characters appropriately compensated in other places since they made down 2 so central to certain roster members.


Also, I'd be fine wit down 2's not being a crushing blow and change it out to give everyone a universal counter crushing blow that rewards people for whiff punishing people, but I'm not pressed one way or the other about them.




See below. Unsafe, but contextually if you can cancel something unsafe into something safe is it really unsafe? I'd say no lol.





Which didn't matter because you could cancel them on block into safe specials which I did often with every single one of my characters including Blue Beetle and Strarfire. If we're gonna discuss this topic it should be discussed candidly and contextually.
Wow, anyone who doesn't know you and only just took a peek at your profile picture must be doing 360s with their eyeballs.
 

xKhaoTik

Kitana Kahn
Actually what are yall smoking? D2 isn't a combo starter it has a KB you can do 1 time to get a combo assuming your opponent doesn't breakaway immediately. Any other time you take a flat 140 which is the same as a throw. Most are also like -9 which is unsafe and pretty much allows you a full dash in before your opponent can start to move again. It's also a high so on read you can duck and full punish. I don't see the problem
What are YOU smoking actually?
-9 sure but with IMMENSE pushback. So no, it’s not unsafe at all.
And what’s your point about it being one and done? Like I said, in MKX they barely lead to combos and were unsafe af. They did flat damage in that game as well so your point is kinda irrelevant.
It’s a scrub mechanic in this game and the reward is way too good. There’s no risk at all basically. Blocked? Who cares. It’s safe. Hit? You get flat 140 or 300+. EVERY.SINGLE.TIME. Ducking it is a hard read.

So yea my argument still stands. Shouldn’t be safe
 
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Savage8-8

Premium
Premium Supporter
The 30 percent damage isn't guaranteed since it requires you to make a read and punish. If it whiffs the recovery is very bad. It's also a high.

It being 14 percent raw is probably an attempt to make it a feared anti air which I believe it is. I think push back on alot of moves need to be looked at. But I can't say that d2 is broken.
 

Zviko

Noob
I really like the idea of D2 KB but this should be something you get rewarded with from a good read like ducking a throw. Not mashing after down poke ON HIT and get a KB just because opponent's character can't jail consistently.
 
It's a KB only once per match and I don't really see how it would make the game better to nerf them into being unsafe.
Nice now there's even more strike/throw guessing and one of your options to get out of the fuckery is suddenly unsafe.

I'd rather see all downpokes adjusted to frame advantages in line with the DLC characters, getting rid of the last change to air attacks that gives everyone with a grounded combo starter an automatic combo on every jumpkick and instead have d2 jump attack invincible halfway through its animation. There's so much more shit I can think of that's stupid in this game before even thinking about d2.
 
I really like the idea of D2 KB but this should be something you get rewarded with from a good read like ducking a throw. Not mashing after down poke ON HIT and get a KB just because opponent's character can't jail consistently.
That's more of a side effect of more than half of the cast being something like +8 or +9 on a successful poke with a 7 to 8 frame jail, so you just gotta do shit instead of hit-confirming it.
If everybody was +14-+15 on their pokes like Spawn, Robocop, Joker etc. you would have no trouble confirming your pressure off pokes.

Only characters who should have shitty pokes are 9f mid characters imo.
 

xKhaoTik

Kitana Kahn
Really?

Of all the strings, normals, specials and fatal blows it's d2s that NEED to be unsafe?
Okay.
Every single fatal blow in the game is unsafe
A lot of specials are unsafe and the ones that aren’t isn’t a big deal
There are tons of strings and normals that are unsafe

What was the point of your comment?
 

ABACABB

End Of Humanity
I have a solution , make them unsafe AF on block and whiff but make them invincible to air attacks . Problem solved , and now every char have decent anti air .

As for now , keep in mind they are highs , so if you fight d2 masher watch him in which situations they d2 . Some do on wake up when you dash in , some after d1 on hit ( yes ppl mash on hit ) . So next time hit him with d1 and neutral duck and punish his ass hard :p
 
is there really ANYONE againts a unsafe d2 ? or even blocked FB ? The casuals barely play multiplayer anyway they do towers with augments thats pretty much it no?
 
I just love how the damage of uppercuts and throws go up with each consecutive MK game. At this rate, by the time MK12 comes around they’ll be doing 16% each.
They're casual friendly buttons and as someone who's leaning into more casual play and caring less at being good, its not something I mind that much. I'm on the popular boat that thinks grabs shouldn't be 50/50 though.