CSZ Bomb Idiosyncrasies

[Stuck]

I think all of the OP's gripes are legit. CSZ probably didn't get as much TLC as the other characters did when they were created. Having the bombs mapped to 3 is a great example of NRS not thinking things out. It pretty much kills his fast dashes from closing space into a mix up game. To make it worse the bomb you accidentally threw out is garbage anyways.
I'm not sure about the poke game argument since I don't play him at a very high level.
I'd like to think that NRS is trying to make every character tournament worthy, but it's probably not their main focus. EVO has 8 different characters in the top 8, which was more balanced than any other game.

 

[Killphil]

Here is a possible infinite bomb trap if CSZ is allowed to drop bombs when opponent is frozen:

2,1 xx Iceball, put out mid bomb while frozen, up4, (opponent wakes up in a bomb and refreezes), put out mid bomb while frozen, up4(opponent wakes up in a bomb and refreezes), forever till infinity.........and im not even canceling the up4..... this would work if bombs get the buff because UP4 ends the combo putting the opponent out of the refreeze rule.

This might not work if the opponent is able to hold down and delay getting up... but can easily be countered by canceling the UP4 into close bomb.... this way you would have one bomb explode if he goes for fast wakeup and another for the delayed wake up. Obviously im just speaking my mind here since I CANT TEST THIS as the character is unable to do it in the current build.

Your infinite is still flawed. When you get frozen by a bomb it pops you up in the air a little bit. If you get hit by U4 it will knock you over. I think the bomb would explode before you even got out of the long slide animation on the ground.

 

[BigDaddyKrames]

Your infinite is still flawed. When you get frozen by a bomb it pops you up in the air a little bit. If you get hit by U4 it will knock you over. I think the bomb would explode before you even got out of the long slide animation on the ground.

Actually, you can't use bombs while the opponent is frozen, anyway. You can use the move to build meter, though.

 

[Killphil]

Actually, you can't use bombs while the opponent is frozen, anyway. You can use the move to build meter, though.

That was a suggested infinite providing you could throw bombs out while your opponent is frozen.

 

[Ether]

Glue, j.P, 21, ice ball, j.P, 21, 2+1, dash, b22, mid bomb doesn't seem to work. Bomb doesn't come out at the end. If I omit the ice ball, the bomb comes out at the end, but they wake up fast enough to jump away from the bomb.

 

[BigDaddyKrames]

That was a suggested infinite providing you could throw bombs out while your opponent is frozen.

Wtf; read fail. My bad. Completely missed that line. :/

 

[UsedForGlue]

Your infinite is still flawed. When you get frozen by a bomb it pops you up in the air a little bit. If you get hit by U4 it will knock you over. I think the bomb would explode before you even got out of the long slide animation on the ground.

Cyrax nor Cyber can throw bombs while their opponent is in a net or ice ball freeze, that is not the problem.

The problem is that Cyrax can throw bombs after a combo continuing from a net, and cyber cannot throw bombs after a combo continuing from an ice ball freeze.

We have to glitch the combo with , that currently breaks the rules, and we are using that to compensate for the fact that we cannot do legit traps because of TWO sets of rules.

Even if you catch the opponent in a bomb, you cannot double bomb, just like cyrax.

There will be no infinities with cyber, even if he gets the same rules are Cyrax.

Again, pose me an infinite problem, and I will demonstrate why it won't work, I will even do it in a video reply.

 

[Amer]

UsedForGlue - awesome thread and good suggestions! You have My adhension.

 

[UsedForGlue]

UsedForGlue - awesome thread and good suggestions! You have My adhension.

Thanks man.

 

[UsedForGlue]

I really can't stress enough that, because of CSZ's Radius blast on his Bombs being small, and his recovery on the bomb being slow, that allows for no bomb into dive kick lock downs, there are currently none in the game now, so why would that change when the bombs start to freeze?

not only breaks the double freeze rule set in place, which means, you can't bomb after a freeze (Which should be changed, so he can follow same rules as Cyrax) and even goes on to break another rule that Cyrax can't even break, and that is laying bombs directly after a bomb started combo.

If they get rid of into bomb and give us the bomb after freeze combo's, then that will solve the current problem, and make any ''Trap'' Legit.

PLEASE READ BELOW:
Even if NRS decide not to give us the ability to use bombs after a freeze combo, I have combo's that I have not shown anyone before that will still break that rule (without )
AND, even with those rule breaker combos, the bombs are still easily escapable, and cannot have the opponent locked down in block stun with a dive kick.

What else do I have to say?

 

[xxvic1ousxx]

Cyrax nor Cyber can throw bombs while their opponent is in a net or ice ball freeze, that is not the problem.

The problem is that Cyrax can throw bombs after a combo continuing from a net, and cyber cannot throw bombs after a combo continuing from an ice ball freeze.

We have to glitch the combo with , that currently breaks the rules, and we are using that to compensate for the fact that we cannot do legit traps because of TWO sets of rules.

Even if you catch the opponent in a bomb, you cannot double bomb, just like cyrax.

There will be no infinities with cyber, even if he gets the same rules are Cyrax.

Again, pose me an infinite problem, and I will demonstrate why it won't work, I will even do it in a video reply.

Is that really a glitch?

I thought u.4 grounded your opponent - ending the combo - quick enough for Ice Bomb to come out. Often times I'll do 2,1 xx Freeze.... u.4 xx Ice Bomb, and get no bomb at all. Perhaps, doing it too quickly.

You also get nothing from a standard Freeze, u.4 xx Ice Bomb.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I dont think making his pokes any better for giving cool down on his parry would be fair, because then they would have to do the same to liu kang whose pokes suck AND still has a parry thats punishable

 

[Niflheim]

Well, After reading this and thinking it over, I agree with everything except improving his pokes/ removing his parry. Seems unneccesary, since pokes are not CSZ's strength so it should not be worried about. Oh, and a parry can be tripped out of or poked, so yeah. To me, it seems CSZ Parry going back to back it useless and doesn't effect much gameplay.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Well, After reading this and thinking it over, I agree with everything except improving his pokes/ removing his parry. Seems unneccesary, since pokes are not CSZ's strength so it should not be worried about. Oh, and a parry can be tripped out of or poked, so yeah. To me, it seems CSZ Parry going back to back it useless and doesn't effect much gameplay.

Pick Cyber against a GOOD Mileena, Kitana and Kabal and tell me what happens? Tell me what you think of his back to back parry and pokes then.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Is that really a glitch?

I thought u.4 grounded your opponent - ending the combo - quick enough for Ice Bomb to come out. Often times I'll do 2,1 xx Freeze.... u.4 xx Ice Bomb, and get no bomb at all. Perhaps, doing it too quickly.

You also get nothing from a standard Freeze, u.4 xx Ice Bomb.

Yes, it is.

The rules the AI follows is, No Bombs after freeze combos, even in juggles, hence the bomb not coming out on a grounded frozen opponent after , The AI thinks the opponent was never hit by an ice ball or juggled when you finish a juggle with , it was never tested, and would never have made it if it was.

 

[UsedForGlue]

I dont think making his pokes any better for giving cool down on his parry would be fair, because then they would have to do the same to liu kang whose pokes suck AND still has a parry thats punishable

Do you not think Lui Kang should receive the same consideration? I do, what good is a back to back parry if your pokes get you fucked by players that can poke you out of your parry and you can't counter poke them?

 

[UsedForGlue]

Well, After reading this and thinking it over, I agree with everything except improving his pokes/ removing his parry. Seems unneccesary, since pokes are not CSZ's strength so it should not be worried about. Oh, and a parry can be tripped out of or poked, so yeah. To me, it seems CSZ Parry going back to back it useless and doesn't effect much gameplay.

The issue is, when you try to parry Kitana, you can't, she can poke you out of your parry, and thats ok. But, when you have no other counter for being poked, what do you do? nothing, because your pokes were reduced so you can back to back parry, but as you said, ''the parry can be tripped out of or poked''

 

[xxvic1ousxx]

Yes, it is.

The rules the AI follows is, No Bombs after freeze combos, even in juggles, hence the bomb not coming out on a grounded frozen opponent after , The AI thinks the opponent was never hit by an ice ball or juggled when you finish a juggle with , it was never tested, and would never have made it if it was.

Hmm. I've tested this thoroughly, and I don't understand how this is a glitch.

From what I've gathered, Freeze, u.4 xx Ice Bomb doesn't work on a standing opponent because they're still in hit stun while you're attempting to Ice Bomb. Which, means the combo technically hasn't ended, and Ice Bomb can't come out.

The only reason I see 2,1, 1+2 -- u.4 xx Ice Bomb works, is because u.4 grounds your opponent and ends the combo fast enough for Ice Bomb to come out.

 

[Niflheim]

I'd be fine if they took out U+BK, Mid bomb trap. Kind of useless, though they should keep U+BK Close Bomb(purely for the corner) and U+BK Slide.
I still don't think his pokes need to be enhanced. His parry could parry all physical things, such as lows, mid, highs, and overheads.
They could also give his Enhanced Divekick armor, so CSZ can finally beat Ermac. I can barely beat my friend who mains Ermac, but I can beat his Ermac with anyone else but my main, CSZ. It pities me.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Hmm. I've tested this thoroughly, and I don't understand how this is a glitch.

From what I've gathered, Freeze, u.4 xx Ice Bomb doesn't work on a standing opponent because they're still in hit stun while you're attempting to Ice Bomb. Which, means the combo technically hasn't ended, and Ice Bomb can't come out.

The only reason I see 2,1, 1+2 -- u.4 xx Ice Bomb works, is because u.4 grounds your opponent and ends the combo fast enough for Ice Bomb to come out.

Ok, the point is, Cyber has no legit traps because of the rules (no bomb after ice ball combos) so we have to use , we should'nt have to use that, we should have access to legit traps. Thats the point, and if this was found in testing with NRS, it would not have made it. Like i said, even Cyrax can't back to back bomb in combos, this allows you to to catch the opponent in an ice bomb, then into another bomb, what is correct about that?

And as long as people like yourself think is not glitchy or too strong and does not brake any rules, and you want to keep it in the game, then I'm afraid we will never be allowed CSZ's bombs to always freeze, as stuff like into bomb is one of the reasons that the bombs always freezing will be overpowered, and without into bomb, there will be no serious traps. So which one do you want? into bomb, or the bombs freezing everytime?

 

[UsedForGlue]

I'd be fine if they took out U+BK, Mid bomb trap. Kind of useless, though they should keep U+BK Close Bomb(purely for the corner) and U+BK Slide.
I still don't think his pokes need to be enhanced. His parry could parry all physical things, such as lows, mid, highs, and overheads.
They could also give his Enhanced Divekick armor, so CSZ can finally beat Ermac. I can barely beat my friend who mains Ermac, but I can beat his Ermac with anyone else but my main, CSZ. It pities me.

I will repeat.

Since the start of the game, the bombs have never froze consistently, and it was supposed to be a trial period to see how many, (if any) major traps would be found before they made a change to the bombs, and if none were found, the bombs would be patched to freeze, but since the game has been out, a new trap that Check4900 invented u into Mid Bomb) has been found, and brought to NRS and the worlds attention.

into bombs is one of the reasons (if not the only reason) that the bombs will not be allowed to freeze everytime.

After an Ice Ball, then a juggle ending in into bomb, the computer thinks no combo has ever taken place, the only way to get around that is to stop the chain of into bombs. Even Cyrax can't do back to back bomb combos, and if he could, it would be taken out.

So if you would rather have into bombs, then they will never be allowed to freeze.

I am blue in the face trying to explain the parry/poke's issue.

So I urge you to play with Cyber against any good Kitana, Mileena, Kabals, and try parry everything they do, as it is your only defence (Because your pokes are so bad), and when that stops working, try poking...then tell me what you think.

 

[AK partyeagle]

im glad someone has made it clear that this crap is unacceptable. csz is a unfinished char, plain and simple.

they need to fix:

bombs should not freeze only if they have been frozen before in a combo. NOT because they were in hitstun when the bomb was activated ( example : if i do 21XXbomb 2 things will happen 1) if they block 21 , and sit there the bomb will freeze them 2) if they get hit by 21 and sit there, the bomb will not freeze )

bombs inputs should be switched to kenshi's tks ( df 3 for mid db3 for close dbf3 for far) this will fix his dash problems and insantly make him a better char. (considering the only way to get dash 33 is to do ffbf then hit 33...)

there are plenty of ways to set up bombs as a reset, u just cant because if u froze them before hand you cant even activate bomb. if they took out u4xxbomb and gave us actual resets ( you know, where they opponent actually has to guess right, instead of always taking damage) i would be satisfied

 

[Niflheim]

I will repeat.

Since the start of the game, the bombs have never froze consistently, and it was supposed to be a trial period to see how many, (if any) major traps would be found before they made a change to the bombs, and if none were found, the bombs would be patched to freeze, but since the game has been out, a new trap that Check4900 invented u into Mid Bomb) has been found, and brought to NRS and the worlds attention.

into bombs is one of the reasons (if not the only reason) that the bombs will not be allowed to freeze everytime.

After an Ice Ball, then a juggle ending in into bomb, the computer thinks no combo has ever taken place, the only way to get around that is to stop the chain of into bombs. Even Cyrax can't do back to back bomb combos, and if he could, it would be taken out.

So if you would rather have into bombs, then they will never be allowed to freeze.

I am blue in the face trying to explain the parry/poke's issue.

So I urge you to play with Cyber against any good Kitana, Mileena, Kabals, and try parry everything they do, as it is your only defence (Because your pokes are so bad), and when that stops working, try poking...then tell me what you think.

Well, if this is the reason why bombs do not freeze constantly is because of U+BK trap, then remove it. If that is, indeed, the true reason why NRS hasn't patched it, then that, is indeed, quite sad. But if that's what it takes to make his bombs freeze constantly, then remove it.
And I cannot understand why he needs his pokes buffed. And I can't play against good kitanas/mileenas/kabals because None of my offline friends use them, and I live in Nebraska.....so no tournaments for me. I don't feel like argueing over an issue I find useless and don't get, so that's the end of that.
And @partyeagle: I like your inputs for the bombs.....It would be much easier than remapping to 4 and remapping slide to 3. or just changing midbomb(which still creates problems with close bomb and back-dashing). I think your inputs should be post on the front page, as they are the most reasonable and plausable.

 

[Konqrr]

If they make the bombs freeze every time, I guaran-damn-tee you that someone will find a reset that will create insane damage and/or an infinite.

 

[UsedForGlue]

If they make the bombs freeze every time, I guaran-damn-tee you that someone will find a reset that will create insane damage and/or an infinite.

The only reset/infinite that could be possible will be with into bombs after a juggle.

They need to remove that option and allow the bombs to freeze, as currently that is the only trap option that is too strong, and its not even supposed to work to that

into bombs even breaks the double bomb rule, that allows you to throw out another bomb after a bomb started combo, even cyrax can't do that, if that was found at NRS it would never have made it through. So bombs need to freeze and - bombs, need to go and allow us the legit traps we already can do that are much more easily escapable.

The bottom line is, even is the bomb froze the opponent and you went into a combo, you couldn't throw out another bomb after that, nor could you double freeze the opponent with an ice ball. Even if they bombs froze, cyrax would still have at least 5-6 more traps that have a higher chance of catching the opponent, and he can even drop bombs after catching the opponent in a net.

There are no infinities with cyber now, and thats not going to change after the bombs start freezing. Except with the , but again, that should not be in the game anyway, as it is a massive rule breaker.