CSZ Bomb Idiosyncrasies

[UsedForGlue]

The fix that we've been using here to avoid accidentally throwing bombs is to press back after a dash and then start your combo strings. Granted bombs should be mapped to 4 but this will fix input errors for the time being.

Agreed, but, when I try to or into a poke, I spit a bomb at my feet and get fucking owned.

 

[Sao87]

Agreed, but, when I try to or into a poke, I spit a bomb at my feet and get fucking owned.

I see, that does sound frustrating.

 

[UsedForGlue]

I see, that does sound frustrating.

Using is only possible while I am standing still after a blocked , and the opponent has to be waiting for my slide or else they can still get the poke first if they decide to poke at the same time as me, Kabal for example.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Every time you did a far bomb you would slide, so you'd have to change that command, instead of mid bomb.
On a side note mid bomb cant be qcf, have fun doing 33 into ice beam.


To what glue said below me,
That's a solution that would work just fine, what about dashing into 3,4? Could you cancel 3 into a bomb?

Hey, check out post 24 for the reply to your question.

 

[zee]

How do you guys like bf3 or a strict ff+3 command for the mid bomb? To resolve back dashing problems, the close bomb could be fb3 or bb+3. IMO this might be more intuitive than switching bombs to 4 and slide to 3, etc.

 

[Ghost stalker]

Hey, check out post 24 for the reply to your question.

Thanks, did I just read it wrong before or did you edit it?
What about what 2,1,2+1 into what u4, slide would be? Would you cancel with a bomb?
I'm running through my head to see if there would be any hidden side affects of any changes. If nrs does take a look at this I want to make sure they get it right.

Edit: What I said in this post and the post before wouldn't have mattered regardless, glues solution seems pretty foolproof.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Thanks, did I just read it wrong before or did you edit it?
What about what 2,1,2+1 into what u4, slide would be? Would you cancel with a bomb?
I'm running through my head to see if there would be any hidden side affects of any changes. If nrs does take a look at this I want to make sure they get it right.

Lets say you finished your combo with into Medium bomb, and lets say the opponent does not tech roll, and you pressure over them and it did freeze, then it would not matter, as you cannot double freeze, and if you did again into medium bomb, it is still easily escapable.

 

[UsedForGlue]

How do you guys like bf3 or a strict ff+3 command for the mid bomb? To resolve back dashing problems, the close bomb could be fb3 or bb+3. IMO this might be more intuitive than switching bombs to 4 and slide to 3, etc.

Switching slide to and making the bombs would solve everything. is never used to poke or start any combos, and you would never accidentally slide after a dash or slide when you didnt mean too as there are no other specials with that require or

 

[UsedForGlue]

It was also pointed out to me that Cyber sub zero's teleport is jus tacked on from Cyrax.

Why give CSZ Cyrax's teleport when they already have sub zeros teleport animation from MKvsDC in MK9 when Cyber swaps out of tag. Why couldn't they just give him this teleport? The animation is already in the game.

Ughhhh....

 

[Error]

Seems like Quan Chi and Cyber Sub-Zero were really half assed -_-

 

[STRYKIE]

It was also pointed out to me that Cyber sub zero's teleport is jus tacked on from Cyrax.

Yeah, I guess I should've brought that up here instead of on the actual video via Youtube comment. But it is what it is, lol.

they already have sub zeros teleport animation from MKvsDC in MK9 when Cyber swaps out of tag.

However, THAT I didn't notice, good catch. I'm no programmer but I thought since the game derives from MKvsDC's engine in the first place, it would be easy to patch in regardless. That's my point though, if he had that teleport, it'd be so much easier to start up with FK without inadvertently spitting out a bomb. As of right now, CSZ's teleport is the most useless in the game imo.

 

[OriginalRazer]

I do remember REO saying something about his bombs not working properly ages ago.
You bring up some valid points that should be brought into konsideration
but I lack the knowledge of the kharacter to really agree or disagree with you man.

If they where able to fix the bombs themselves without giving us another pain in the hole Cyrax id back it lol

All the best,
RAZ :en R

 

[UsedForGlue]

Seems like Quan Chi and Cyber Sub-Zero were really half assed -_-

I and many people that play cyber sub have all got the same concerns, I am not simply bitching, I am willing to help, and do anything possible to help and put things right with him.

 

[Mt. Mutombo]

I love cyber sub and i have to agree with you, but to a certain extent. His bombs are too damn inconsistent and the blast radius is horrible but i can see a lot of scenarios for infinites to occur if he were to re-freeze consistently. It's not that it needs to be inconsistent but rather carefully looked at.

 

[UsedForGlue]

I love cyber sub and i have to agree with you, but to a certain extent. His bombs are too damn inconsistent and the blast radius is horrible but i can see a lot of scenarios for infinites to occur if he were to re-freeze consistently. It's not that it needs to be inconsistent but rather carefully looked at.

Can you purpose an example?

 

[Killphil]

I completely agree. I find it hard to juggle off the rare bomb that does freeze my opponent anyway. I see that as a disadvantage when they get frozen in the air like that. Guess the njp will have to do for now. I only ever use the medium bomb on a landed jip. About the teleport: it sucks. I love it when I try to teleport out of the way of a projectile, he'll actually disappear from view, but as soon as the projectile passes where he "was" he reappears and gets hit by it. I mean looks like they said "oh he can freeze people" and gave him the shittier versions of the moves he shares with cyrax. Cyrax is invincible on teleport and it has some strange properties to boot.

 

[Error]

CSZ is Sub-Zero's and Cyrax's red-headed step child, or at least he's treated that way.

 

[UsedForGlue]

I completely agree. I find it hard to juggle off the rare bomb that does freeze my opponent anyway. I see that as a disadvantage when they get frozen in the air like that. Guess the njp will have to do for now. I only ever use the medium bomb on a landed jip. About the teleport: it sucks. I love it when I try to teleport out of the way of a projectile, he'll actually disappear from view, but as soon as the projectile passes where he "was" he reappears and gets hit by it. I mean looks like they said "oh he can freeze people" and gave him the shittier versions of the moves he shares with cyrax. Cyrax is invincible on teleport and it has some strange properties to boot.

Both cyrax and cybers teleports are easily punishable on reaction. Cyber should have been given subs MKVSDC teleport, that animation is currently in the game but used as his swap out in Tag mode...

 

[Niflheim]

Both cyrax and cybers teleports are easily punishable on reaction. Cyber should have been given subs MKVSDC teleport, that animation is currently in the game but used as his swap out in Tag mode...

Yeah, I never understood why they just gave CSZ Cyrax's teleport. Since I always tag mode with my friends, I realized Day 1 the animation was in there and unused. It really pissed me off, since his teleport is useless. HOWEVER, they may have balanced this out with the fastest dash in the game.
But, that's complete useless since his low and overhead combos also end up shitting out bombs. What the fuck Netherrealm.

 

[Ruuku1012]

I agree with you, UsedForGlue. This is one of the reasons why I play CSZ but I do not do it seriously for now. A lot of people are asking for buff or nerfs for a lot of characters but I think the main goal should be get rid of block infinities and inconsistencies like CSZ bombs or some special moves being useless.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Yeah, I never understood why they just gave CSZ Cyrax's teleport. Since I always tag mode with my friends, I realized Day 1 the animation was in there and unused. It really pissed me off, since his teleport is useless. HOWEVER, they may have balanced this out with the fastest dash in the game.
But, that's complete useless since his low and overhead combos also end up shitting out bombs. What the fuck Netherrealm.

I am not a programmer, But I don't think the Kommunity is asking for much to be changed with him, here are the proposed changes that he needs:

Bombs changed to as is not needed for pokes or any other aspect of his dashing gameplay.

Slide changed to , with slide at you will never accidentally input another special move due to negative edge, as no other special at will have or

Back to back Ice Parrys need a cool down.

His , and needs better recovery, as it was compensation for back to back parrys, the back to back parry is not needed. Pokes are needed, as back to back parry's do not work against half the cast.

As soon as the bombs get an ''always freeze'' property, then bombs should not be able to link from , with that gone, there will no possible bomb traps.

Dive kicks should be able to be inputted from (Upload string) you can from this, but no dive kicks, makes no sense and will round off combos properly, with this, cyber sub zero can final do combos that make sense, for example: JIP, - JIP, + - - - 38% :en Dive kick = 42%

After a freeze, a bomb should be allowed, in the exact same way that Cyrax can throw a bomb after a combo with an opponent in a net, no bombs will be allowed as the opponent is in a net or freeze. But as the combo continues after the net or freeze cyrax can still get a bomb at the end of a combo, currently, cyber sub zero cannot...not getting the same rules as cyrax, even though cyber already cannot double freeze.

Example: CYRAX:
JIP, - NJP, , - Medium Bomb - Cyrax currently has a different rule that CSZ has.

Example: CYBER: Currently cannot bomb after a freeze combo, even though he cannot already double freeze, he has a second set of rules to protect something that isnt there.
JIP, , JIP, , - Medium Bomb

 

[HurlingDervish]

Seems like Quan Chi and Cyber Sub-Zero were really half assed -_-

funny you say this, I've been thinking the exact same thing, I mean its not like they couldn't have chosen 2 other characters to be unlockable. They were hidden for a reason, I think.

I also would like to think that NRS were so scared of the characters that had "obvious" reset potential and gimped them during development. I wouldn't doubt Noob Saibot had 200% inescapable resets at one point with what would have felt like a balanced moveset prior to their discovery...now he feels so lame/slow/incomplete/weak when you initially try to play him (before you actually get good with him and play with the strategies that probably got him gimped in the first place)

Same thing happened with CBZ and Quan Chi it looks like. The immediate threat of rushdown bomb traps probably scared them more than a turtler with resets that may not have been found? I wonder why Cyrax got the pass, I bet a developer was secretly hiding test info on him because they mained him and wanted to keep his resets and traps...

 

[UsedForGlue]

funny you say this, I've been thinking the exact same thing, I mean its not like they couldn't have chosen 2 other characters to be unlockable. They were hidden for a reason, I think.

I also would like to think that NRS were so scared of the characters that had "obvious" reset potential and gimped them during development. I wouldn't doubt Noob Saibot had 200% inescapable resets at one point with what would have felt like a balanced moveset prior to their discovery...now he feels so lame/slow/incomplete/weak when you initially try to play him (before you actually get good with him and play with the strategies that probably got him gimped in the first place)

Same thing happened with CBZ and Quan Chi it looks like. The immediate threat of rushdown bomb traps probably scared them more than a turtler with resets that may not have been found? I wonder why Cyrax got the pass, I bet a developer was secretly hiding test info on him because they mained him and wanted to keep his resets and traps...

Agreed.

I just finished following up the points I raised and the issues other people raised.

 

[zee]

UsedForGlue, I realize that you'd like to acquire as much support as possible from the top U.S. players about these CSZ changes, hence you mentioned the bit about Tom Brady and Sub-Zero. Though, to clarify, Brady had absolutely no influence over NRS in any upcoming Sub-Zero alterations.

What he did do was voice the concerns that many Sub-Zero players were having for some time; and in his thread about proposed buffs, a developer posted the changes that were already being considered since the time Skarlet was being developed. In other words, the Slide buff would be happening regardless of whether or not Brady shared his thoughts in that thread.

IMO, no suggestions made by a single top player will ever directly influence patch decisions, unless they received serious backing from other top players and the community at large. I believe this is what you're trying to get at, but it sounded like you implied that some Sub-Zero buffs were happening because Brady wanted them.

I do like your ideas, but they're a bunch of changes the likes of which NRS haven't made so far for any character in one go. Gathering as much support for these propositions is great, but realistically, we might see maybe one or two tweaks by the next patch such as an adjustment of the switch that would allow CSZ bombs to freeze opponents more often upon contact.

 

[UsedForGlue]

UsedForGlue, I realize that you'd like to acquire as much support as possible from the top U.S. players about these CSZ changes, hence you mentioned the bit about Tom Brady and Sub-Zero. Though, to clarify, Brady had absolutely no influence over NRS in any upcoming Sub-Zero alterations.

What he did do was voice the concerns that many Sub-Zero players were having for some time; and in his thread about proposed buffs, a developer posted the changes that were already being considered since the time Skarlet was being developed. In other words, the Slide buff would be happening regardless of whether or not Brady shared his thoughts in that thread.

IMO, no suggestions made by a single top player will ever directly influence patch decisions, unless they received serious backing from other top players and the community at large. I believe this is what you're trying to get at, but it sounded like you implied that some Sub-Zero buffs were happening because Brady wanted them.

I do like your ideas, but they're a bunch of changes the likes of which NRS haven't made so far for any character in one go. Gathering as much support for these propositions is great, but realistically, we might see maybe one or two tweaks by the next patch such as an adjustment of the switch that would allow CSZ bombs to freeze opponents more often upon contact.

I am sorry if I gave across the opinion that, if TomBrady says something, it happens. I mean no disrespect.

But that is not what I mean, I mean that, if some major players in the US Show concern it will be taken more seriously, you can't ignore that. I am only hoping that players with notoriety in the US will help promote this to who it may concern.

Anything Tom Brady brings up in a bradycast, gets noticed! I do not have a following like that, I need to reach out. And I hope I get the backing and get some spread with these concerns, and at that, NRS must know about these problems already, I know they are not ignorant to these problems, but if the community does not reach out in masses, it will not get priority.