Complaining about deadshot? I have a ? for you.

[hemanhulkamania]

I love zoning, and I'm glad it's a thing, but this kind of zoning worries me. It seems like most of the cast can only duck, and inch their way towards deadshot.

Maybe it's too early to say, and we'll just git gud, but I have my doubts at the same time.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I don't think you really need to let the game play out to see how Deadshot is.
We have all played enough fighting games and NRS games to know when something is wrong, and it's not like Injustice is that deep of a game.

For some characters, fighting Deadshot is probably about as fun as getting teeth pulled.

That said, I don't think the game has much of future, Deadshot or not, so might as well leave him be.

People say this a lot but then admit to reacting too soon later down the road. There's no way everyone knows how the game in it's current state is going to be played a year or even six months from now. People aren't even using all the options provided.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Does Deadshot really rape a whole bunch of characters? Like do we even know? No doubt, getting zoned by Deadshot, Fate, Darkseid, or Firestorm is frustrating to a lot of people. I think people don't like dealing with zoning because they feel like they lack control of their situation. And point blank they have the illusion that they have more control. Really for the most part it's on you to deal with a zoner and work your way in. Of course if the zoning isn't too strong, which we couldn't possibly know at this point. If Deadshot turns out to be a super dominant character then sure but there just isnt a way to know. Also you don't start at full screen. I understand Deadshot doesn't have a lot of trouble putting you there, Fate just needs to hit you with one glyph, and so on, but if you're full screen you fucked up. It's the same idea behind Aqua and Adam hitting like a truck, you got opened up, deal with it. You're getting zoned, deal with it.

I'm not preaching to anyone in particular, I agree with most of you guys in that if Deadshot's zoning stays this strong without people finding work arounds, then he should be vulnerable up close. For all we know Deadshot could be fine though. Another thing to consider is we just got done with MKX where zoning wasn't much of a factor at all, and you're probably used to knocking down and abusing the hell out of characters like HQT and Summoner. But either way we don't know. Deadshot players should work to make him as effective as he can be and everyone else should work together to find work arounds so that we might actually know what's up with Deadshot. Same goes to any character in the game really. Today it's Deadshot, it'll be someone else soon.

 

[ATL Jones Bro3]

Deadshot's "sick 50/50s" get him like 15-20% on hit. So what your saying is remove his 50/50s, make his wrist shots dashable and leave his attrocious mid screen damage? He would be complete trash tier at that point. What would he even have going for him?

 

[Rude]

Doing jumping jacks the entire time isn't gonna win matches.

*Post knock-down.

Knock him down, make your read.

 

[Eldriken]

Deadshot's "sick 50/50s" get him like 15-20% on hit. So what your saying is remove his 50/50s, make his wrist shots dashable and leave his attrocious mid screen damage? He would be complete trash tier at that point. What would he even have going for him?

If anyone is demanding all those changes be implemented at once, you should really disregard the post in its entirety.

However, when you have people asking for ONE OR THE OTHER, those are the people you should respond to, but in a different manner.

You're cherry picking stupid shit to be argumentative over.

 

[GAV]

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Asking for ANY changes right now is retarded

 

[SaltShaker]

I'm not crying for turbo nerfs, man. Nor are some others. The two things I see get mentioned the most are adding more recovery to his wrist shot and/or toning down his up close game.

Y'all are acting like everyone and their damn mother is wanting him to be Joker tier from Injustice 1.

People say it's too early to cry for nerfs, but why isn't it too early for you guys to say he's completely fair? How do you know? You don't. You're clinging onto your character because it's what you've been longing for for so long that any mention of normalizing him in any way is seen as demanding him to be gutted.

The game just came out. Like literally most people turned on Inj2 at 10 pm Monday night. I could just as easily say things about a couple rushdown characters and their far beyond ridiculous mix/damage/vortex setups that feel worse than MKX but I have yet to say a word. Am I hating it? Of course, but I'm doing everything I can to play the MUs and lab counters before I cry about it.

Meanwhile like you said, I'm hearing "nerf recovery" and "nerf 50/50" with no context and no idea how it will effect him in his MUs. Why? Because no one knows the game yet. We have talked about this on here dozens of times, and the instant someone sees the easiest visual it's "nerf it". You have been around fighting games long enough to know the best tech is found later on, not early on, and nerfing characters early almost always turns them to trash because of this. Nerfing should for actual broken things this early, not things people are too lazy to fight against.

Remember in SF4, when C.Viper was considered garbage tier for how many months, then tech was found and she was top 5? Imagine if she had gotten BUFFS because people complained. Imagine if Claudio in Tekken go nerfed because he was "too strong" the first few months? Even my guy, Cutt Kano getting buffs, it was ridiculous. There's countless examples across all fighters why nerf/buff too soon is bad, especially in this community. But yea. I'm going to a character that I think will have lots of tech that people will be too dumb to complain about so they'll stay strong.

 

[Eldriken]

The game just came out. Like literally most people turned on Inj2 at 10 pm Monday night. I could just as easily say things about a couple rushdown characters and their far beyond ridiculous mix/damage/vortex setups that feel worse than MKX but I have yet to say a word. Am I hating it? Of course, but I'm doing everything I can to play the MUs and lab counters before I cry about it.

Meanwhile like you said, I'm hearing "nerf recovery" and "nerf 50/50" with no context and no idea how it will effect him in his MUs. Why? Because no one knows the game yet. We have talked about this on here dozens of times, and the instant someone sees the easiest visual it's "nerf it". You have been around fighting games long enough to know the best tech is found later on, not early on, and nerfing characters early almost always turns them to trash because of this. Nerfing should for actual broken things this early, not things people are too lazy to fight against.

Remember in SF4, when C.Viper was considered garbage tier for how many months, then tech was found and she was top 5? Imagine if she had gotten BUFFS because people complained. Imagine if Claudio in Tekken go nerfed because he was "too strong" the first few months? Even my guy, Cutt Kano getting buffs, it was ridiculous. There's countless examples across all fighters why nerf/buff too soon is bad, especially in this community. But yea. I'm going to a character that I think will have lots of tech that people will be too dumb to complain about so they'll stay strong.

I'm not saying you're wrong with any of what you're saying. I don't think anyone defending this character is wrong, either. It's more to do with their approach.

You guys want others to hear you out and you ought to do the same. However, like you said, when you have people screaming "nerf it!" with no context or knowing how it will affect his MUs, it makes it hard and sifting through all that nonsense to get to the real meat and potatoes can be tiring. I get and understand all of this.

It's too early for nerf/buff requests for sure. But they're INEVITABLE. As tiring as they may be, folks need to understand that they're gonna be there regardless because that's just how new game releases work. So, keeping all that in mind, we need to just try and have as civilized of a conversation about it as we can. People need to be willing to listen to the people expressing their dislike of it without getting their panties in a wad and so do the people who are complaining.

About when tech is discovered: I'm right on board with you. I think the same exact way. That is why I'm only advocating a minor change (if any is to be made) to the recovery on his wrist shot. As long as it's not like 7+ additional recovery frames, what could it possibly hurt as far as figuring out how it affects all of his MUs? I say they start small and work their way up (if needed) as to avoid any massive changes that turn everyone away from the character. Do you, in your opinion, feel that is too much to ask for to see how things go? I'm legitimately asking. If you feel it is, feel free to explain why, as you have been doing.

 

[Slymind]

I just think this type of character can be harmful to the this game's community. The more experienced will deal with it no doubt, but he will be overwhelming to newbie players and might drive them away.

Imagine if I2 was your first FG and you went online and had to deal with DS projectiles right out of the gate. No other character is as overwhelming with just two moves only(wrist shot and rifle).

Maybe a reload mechanic would help, after a few shots he has to reload, it would make the zoning much more caculated and less spammy.

 

[ghostwriteous]

Did the Headshot player win Wednesday Night Fights last night?

 

[SaltShaker]

I'm not saying you're wrong with any of what you're saying. I don't think anyone defending this character is wrong, either. It's more to do with their approach.

You guys want others to hear you out and you ought to do the same. However, like you said, when you have people screaming "nerf it!" with no context or knowing how it will affect his MUs, it makes it hard and sifting through all that nonsense to get to the real meat and potatoes can be tiring. I get and understand all of this

Yea that would be like me saying "buff his midscreen" or some garbage like that. Or better yet, nerf some of the offense that I have seen that makes MKX look like a slug in comparison. But I'm not saying a word because I know I haven't learned the MUs against these new characters yet and I know I need to learn the counters, if there are any counters, try to apply them, and THEN I'll start crying about a character or two having too much offense. But until then I'm not saying a peep, and wish others would go through this entire process.

When I see people say "I've labbed the MU and he's broken", but don't even know you can blow up the multiple gaps in his best string, it triggers me lol.

It's too early for nerf/buff requests for sure. But they're INEVITABLE. As tiring as they may be, folks need to understand that they're gonna be there regardless because that's just how new game releases work. So, keeping all that in mind, we need to just try and have as civilized of a conversation about it as we can. People need to be willing to listen to the people expressing their dislike of it without getting their panties in a wad and so do the people who are complaining.

About when tech is discovered: I'm right on board with you. I think the same exact way. That is why I'm only advocating a minor change (if any is to be made) to the recovery on his wrist shot. As long as it's not like 7+ additional recovery frames, what could it possibly hurt as far as figuring out how it affects all of his MUs? I say they start small and work their way up (if needed) as to avoid any massive changes that turn everyone away from the character. Do you, in your opinion, feel that is too much to ask for to see how things go? I'm legitimately asking. If you feel it is, feel free to explain why, as you have been doing.

My personal stance, which I've tried to leave out of this as far as changes go, is that if anything is nerfed, it should be his 50/50 combo starting high damage corner shenanigans. It's very much unneeded for a primarily zoning character. If they made the OH F23 unable to cancel like in the Watchtower version it would make sense, since that would make the Low unsafe without bar and the OH unsafe, which I would consider a fair adjustment given his design. Removing the 50/50 altogether however is absurd, because he would just die for free up close against 95% of the cast. I don't agree with the recover shots nerf, because the good players are already learning how to walk their way in after 3 days. Imagine 3 weeks, or 3 months. Adding a "dash" between shots would make his zoning much, much weaker by design, for a character who doesn't have 20% of the up close game Deathstroke had. What's he gonna do? Let you dash in after 2-3 dashes and body you with his 210 hit points 1 bar midscreen?? The "he needs it" joke everyone applies for their character applies here too.

This is why I have always been an advocate for playing the game first. In my era there were NO patches so you had to play and learn the game, learn how to beat characters. You had no choice but to fight S+++ Tier Jin in Tekken. No choice but to fight Billy Kane in KOF. Now we are spoonfed "monthly patches" to help people beat things they are too lazy to learn how to fight. But in the end, I guess it's inevitable, crying will always beat labbing in 2017, so I am hopping off the Titanic.

 

[Eldriken]

Yea that would be like me saying "buff his midscreen" or some garbage like that. Or better yet, nerf some of the offense that I have seen that makes MKX look like a slug in comparison. But I'm not saying a word because I know I haven't learned the MUs against these new characters yet and I know I need to learn the counters, if there are any counters, try to apply them, and THEN I'll start crying about a character or two having too much offense. But until then I'm not saying a peep, and wish others would go through this entire process.

When I see people say "I've labbed the MU and he's broken", but don't even know you can blow up the multiple gaps in his best string, it triggers me lol.



My personal stance, which I've tried to leave out of this as far as changes go, is that if anything is nerfed, it should be his 50/50 combo starting high damage corner shenanigans. It's very much unneeded for a primarily zoning character. If they made the OH F23 unable to cancel like in the Watchtower version it would make sense, since that would make the Low unsafe without bar and the OH unsafe, which I would consider a fair adjustment given his design. Removing the 50/50 altogether however is absurd, because he would just die for free up close against 95% of the cast. I don't agree with the recover shots nerf, because the good players are already learning how to walk their way in after 3 days. Imagine 3 weeks, or 3 months. Adding a "dash" between shots would make his zoning much, much weaker by design, for a character who doesn't have 20% of the up close game Deathstroke had. What's he gonna do? Let you dash in after 2-3 dashes and body you with his 210 hit points 1 bar midscreen?? The "he needs it" joke everyone applies for their character applies here too.

This is why I have always been an advocate for playing the game first. In my era there were NO patches so you had to play and learn the game, learn how to beat characters. You had no choice but to fight S+++ Tier Jin in Tekken. No choice but to fight Billy Kane in KOF. Now we are spoonfed "monthly patches" to help people beat things they are too lazy to learn how to fight. But in the end, I guess it's inevitable, crying will always beat labbing in 2017, so I am hopping off the Titanic.

Maybe you don't have to. Perhaps Paulo will tell people to suck it up and deal with it for now.

 

[RagingRicans]

This new generation of zoners want everything spoon fed to them smh

Can't you see you're becoming what you hate!??? Lol

 

[SaltShaker]

Maybe you don't have to. Perhaps Paulo will tell people to suck it up and deal with it for now.

Well he did do that with Jacqui's guns for all of MKX among a huge period of crying at one point, and was wearing a Deadshot hat in the Watchtower stream, so there's a small glimmer of light lol.

I'll have that secondary on standby though just in case.

 

[Swindle]

Exactly this. The online casuals who were complaining the most about zoning characters like death stroke in IGAU still lost to him the exact same way after they nerfed his zoning. It is a simple issue of no will/desire/care to learn how to overcome something perceived as difficult. They could add recovery frames to every projectile attack in the game but the people who have no patience or understanding of the game will still get blown up by projectiles just as much as in the current version. So any changes or nerfs ultimately will only affect tournament players anyway and will not change the experience of an online casual.

Stop making sense.

 

[Mitsuownes]

Complaining? This guy threatened to kill me!

 

[hkriderz]

Complaining? This guy threatened to kill me!

Lmao. Is that Achmed?
SILENCE, I KILL YOU!

Real talk tho, you know something's wrong when the opponent jumps deadshots shot on reaction and gets hit in the air with not one, but two shots. (I'm not asking for nerfs btw, I think it's hilarious.)

He makes Kitana seem like you can jump all day on her.

 

[ismael4790]

Problem is that this kind of zoning shouldn't also be in the same moveset with 50/50s and a free wakeup, and bullshit low range footsies that have no hurtbox. Everyone knows zoning is a part of the game, but you have way above average mindless zoning, and then free ways to open someone up should you need to, and can wakeup for free.

If you REALLY believe you NEED all of that to play, then maybe you're the ones that need to level up

Same for Darkseid

1 bar is considered free?
Because meterless bf3 is punishable.

Imo, his zoning is practically almost ok, maybe in need of slight changes in the future (finally a zoning character has the chance to be at same level than the usual busted rushdown), also his wakeup is oriented to give him a good defense which a totally zoning oriented char needs.

50/50s are another story, but as most are noticing, he has gaps absolutely everywhere. Let's give it time.

 

[WhooFlungPoo]

The way they designed deadshot was pure lazy, they could have mad a really interesting character with his guns. Something like glacius, combos from mid to far with guns in spectacular fashion. Shooting off interactables, the cieling, behind him, just trickshots that are combo strings. Coupd ve designed crazy animations of acrobatic shots. B3 coulda been a heavy rifle shot and f 3 coulda shot the cieling and came down as the overhead. He coulda been really interesting as hes a guns guy, the best guns guy. This could have been balanced through poor up close game. Instead they made him a stupid spam guns character that every online warrior will abuse. Lazy damn design.

 

[GAV]

Complaining? This guy threatened to kill me!

Deadshot isn't Scorpion!!! Why do you care about him?

You playing another character is like Bender as a human...

Its fun now, but unseen consequences are sure to ensue.

 

[Solid]

The way they designed deadshot was pure lazy, they could have mad a really interesting character with his guns. Something like glacius, combos from mid to far with guns in spectacular fashion. Shooting off interactables, the cieling, behind him, just trickshots that are combo strings. Coupd ve designed crazy animations of acrobatic shots. B3 coulda been a heavy rifle shot and f 3 coulda shot the cieling and came down as the overhead. He coulda been really interesting as hes a guns guy, the best guns guy. This could have been balanced through poor up close game. Instead they made him a stupid spam guns character that every online warrior will abuse. Lazy damn design.

Git gud.

 

[armani]

Deadshot, Blue Beetle, & Firestorm really take the cake for missed opportunity and poor animation. Deadshot shoots at you like he's scared of the wrist cannons lmao - yet the projectile (almost) jails and keeps you from doing anything. That's satirical as hell from my standpoint.

I'm not trying to be amidst the sea of complainers, but yeah.... bad design indeed.

The game has only been out for 2 days though guys, I'm sure that there's a way to get around the projectile

 

[Wrenchfarm]

Regardless of how OP/fair/totally fine you feel Deadshot's game is, you have to admit it's boring as hell and goofy to watch. The little wet fart noise of his wrist cannon every 1.5 seconds is just too much to take seriously.