General/Other - Commando Commando Variation Discussion Thread

[countrypistol]

Looks like EX spin is -19 on block (according to the APP data) so you should be able to like throw a tea party, run out of tea, go get more tea, finish the party, and then punish with whatever you want. Regular spin is -25. I would probably just do 112xxBall or B13xxBall like you said. Even though he's commando I really don't mind the distance. You can just chuck some more knives for meter gain or try to bait out his teleport if he doesn't close distance. Or just run forward and cancel into parry on reaction if they press buttons or just Run up D4 after putting them at a distance since the D4 max range is pretty great.

F4 (11 startup) should punish EX Hat I believe, which I would just cancel into ball, or if you want to burn the meter you can cancel into EX ball and do your ex ball cancel combo from there.

Right, I've had a mess around with it again.

2-ex ball cancel-run cancel-112-choke does 25%. EX choke makes it 30% (I know, I know, 30% for two meters is a waste, I'm just reporting my findings).

You can replace 2 with b1-3 and it does the same damage, f4 gets 1% less.

You can replace the run cancel with a small step forward.

For the sake of comparison, f4-ball is 15%, so you are getting 10% extra damage for one bar of meter. I'm on the fence as to whether it's worth it.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

I'd say not so much. If it's going to take a round, then it's worth it, but if it's middle of round or beginning I would try to save the meter for armor. I rarely use meter in combo for Commando, just isn't worth it in most cases unless the extra damage is going to kill. My meter almost ALL goes to Breakers and EX Command grab/EX Kano ball armor or EX Knives in some situations.

 

[countrypistol]

I'd say not so much. If it's going to take a round, then it's worth it, but if it's middle of round or beginning I would try to save the meter for armor. I rarely use meter in combo for Commando, just isn't worth it in most cases unless the extra damage is going to kill. My meter almost ALL goes to Breakers and EX Command grab/EX Kano ball armor or EX Knives in some situations.

Worth knowing. Thanks.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

Dont take my word as scripture, just how I approach it. You might find just getting the damage when you can to be more effective, try it if it feels right to you, just 25% for a meter is pretty weak IMO.

 

[Zatoichi]

112 into EX Choke does about 28%

 

[countrypistol]

112 into EX Choke does about 28%

But it's a close range punish. I'm trying to find a punish for a move like Lao's Ex spin where you get pushed out of 112 range and only have a small window to attack.

 

[imblackjames]

But it's a close range punish. I'm trying to find a punish for a move like Lao's Ex spin where you get pushed out of 112 range and only have a small window to attack.

Does run 112-choke work?

 

[kabelfritz]

Dont take my word as scripture, just how I approach it. You might find just getting the damage when you can to be more effective, try it if it feels right to you, just 25% for a meter is pretty weak IMO.

depends on the opponent. does he give you only few options to punish or pressure? extend combos for max damage. can you get the mixup train running? Keep your combos meterless.

 

[countrypistol]

Does run 112-choke work?

It does, but I would rather begin with an advancing hitbox. Personal preference.

Edit: I felt this might warrent explanation. If i cock up the run cancel, I get no damage, if I cock up the ball cancel I get 19%.

 

[kabelfritz]

But it's a close range punish. I'm trying to find a punish for a move like Lao's Ex spin where you get pushed out of 112 range and only have a small window to attack.

f4 is always good for longer range punishes if 1 or b1 is too short, it can also be canceled into knives for standing reset or ball cancel for combo extension.

 

[Diaphone]

F4 xx EX ball into NJ.p combo is the most optimal punish for some stuff that pushes you out. Best way to punish moves like EX Bo spin and EX rising karma.

As for spend meter on combos.. I think its useful to do ex ball cancels if you are in the corner to side switch (with 32 1+3) or if you are confident in nj.p combos or the combo will kill. Other than that I think meter in combos is a waste.

Most of my meter is spent on ex grab/ex upball

 

[RyuuJin882]

Can you post a link to archive? Would like to see.


Also regarding matchups,

Some of my problem matchups (that I switch to cyber for) are kitana, sub-zero, kenshi, ermac. Some MUs that I think suck for both variations: shinnok, raiden and tanya. So his MU spread is pretty good I think.
I also think cyber kano beats commando kano in that MU, but commando kano has more favorable MUs overall.

For Tanya i would stay just outside jump range and bait a jump in/teleport. Punish with an air ball. Teach them to respect your spacing.

And if they throw a tonfa, match it with a knife.

That's what I would do, but I'm a zoner first, rush down second.

 

[MsMiharo]

If they don't fix grab hitboxes soon they should make choke a mid. Or do both. Choke as a mid would be godlike

 

[FlappyDaniel]

Idk if anything will make choke godlike unless you can actually do something after it to be honest. When I hit people with it after they block knee is about as good as it gets, And obviously it's good to tack on to make stuff a smidge safer, but meh. Still better then it used to be so I'll take it.

 

[countrypistol]

f4 is always good for longer range punishes if 1 or b1 is too short, it can also be canceled into knives for standing reset or ball cancel for combo extension.

F4 is good, but standing 2 nets 1% more in the combos I tested (I think I gave an example in a previous post). For Lao's spin it's fine as the recovery prevents him from ducking, but there may be other situations where 2 whiffs (and let's be honest, with the stance specific hit box that @MsMiharo found it's likely the case), so in those instances f4 would be better.

F4 xx EX ball into NJ.p combo is the most optimal punish for some stuff that pushes you out. Best way to punish moves like EX Bo spin and EX rising karma.

As for spend meter on combos.. I think its useful to do ex ball cancels if you are in the corner to side switch (with 32 1+3) or if you are confident in nj.p combos or the combo will kill. Other than that I think meter in combos is a waste.

Most of my meter is spent on ex grab/ex upball

As for ball cancel-NJP, I find that the ball cancel after 2 or F4 pushed Lao too far out. If anybody knows of a way to prevent this, please tell me.

 

[MsMiharo]

Idk if anything will make choke godlike unless you can actually do something after it to be honest. When I hit people with it after they block knee is about as good as it gets, And obviously it's good to tack on to make stuff a smidge safer, but meh. Still better then it used to be so I'll take it.

Choke on block is godlike lol

 

[MsMiharo]

But mid choke would be great for wake up, anti poke and would not whiff when done naked.

 

[countrypistol]

But mid choke would be great for wake up, anti poke and would not whiff when done naked.

So when we played yesterday, you were naked?

 

[MsMiharo]

So when we played yesterday, you were naked?

there's a 90% chance I'm naken when I'm home tbh, it's so fucking warm in my appartment. But no I didn't use it naked vs you lol

 

[MsMiharo]

btw here's that set. Just casuals online. PS mirrors are so weird :/

 

[FlappyDaniel]

nobody ever commando mirrors me .

and I agree that choke is very good now, especially to make some stuff a little safer. But -4 on block with a hit adv of -5 when not MB and hitting high makes it relatively easy to avoid if you stay low profiled. Also you DID do naked choke about 6 times in a row in your guys' second match, final round.

edit: Also one thing I did notice. In long sets especially you should not go for the choke blockstring EVERY time. Like a lot of the time I'll throw out JUST F4 and JUST B13 for the whole first round, then the second round I'll start mixing up if I tack on the choke ender or not. It makes it a lot more likely to catch them pressing buttons with the choke. By the end of the first match Country was already always blocking the choke after B13 which leaves you at -4 instead of -1, which is just strictly worse if there's no mixup.

 

[MsMiharo]

nobody ever commando mirrors me .

and I agree that choke is very good now, especially to make some stuff a little safer. But -4 on block with a hit adv of -5 when not MB and hitting high makes it relatively easy to avoid if you stay low profiled. Also you DID do naked choke about 6 times in a row in your guys' second match, final round.

edit: Also one thing I did notice. In long sets especially you should not go for the choke blockstring EVERY time. Like a lot of the time I'll throw out JUST F4 and JUST B13 for the whole first round, then the second round I'll start mixing up if I tack on the choke ender or not. It makes it a lot more likely to catch them pressing buttons with the choke.

I realized it, I was going for brutality haha, wasn't the most serious of matches

 

[FlappyDaniel]

lol I figured the naked chokes were just for Brutal, just figured I'd call you out on saying you didn't throw any naked ones because this is TYM <3

 

[MsMiharo]

Haha I deserved it! Btw working on a youtube series on some commando tactics. Will post in later today or in a few days

 

[FlappyDaniel]

I'd really like to mirror you, but you're not NA are you? it looks like we honestly play him very differently but I think we'd be very close in level.

Edit: same with country (or any kanos)