General/Other - Commando Commando Variation Discussion Thread

[OmGxBdON]

He got originally nerfed on the B1 and stuff like week 2 or whenever the very first global patch was. He got the choke buff patch notes after Jason I think, maybe with tanya release?

So since I have an X1 I can finally sit down and practice:

B1,3 xx EX Ball (cancel), dash, njp, run, 32, 112 xx rib strike.

I have got it a few times, but man is it strict. I have a problem either canceling the ball fast enough, or getting the dash out as soon as possible. Is there a trick to this that you guys' use, or should I just keep practicing until I get the muscle memory?

wtf is an X1 sorry for my scrubby ness

 

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

wtf is an X1 sorry for my scrubby ness

Xbox One

 

[cR Biohazard]

So since I have an X1 I can finally sit down and practice:

B1,3 xx EX Ball (cancel), dash, njp, run, 32, 112 xx rib strike.

I have got it a few times, but man is it strict. I have a problem either canceling the ball fast enough, or getting the dash out as soon as possible. Is there a trick to this that you guys' use, or should I just keep practicing until I get the muscle memory?

I found that for me if you try canceling the ball cancel early the game won't read the down down correctly, so wait a bit and see the EX ball make contact, then in one swift motion do down down, dash, up njp. Hope that helps

 

[OmGxBdON]

Xbox One

Y not ps4

 

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

Y not ps4

I am just borrowing the Xbox lol. I didnt have a choice of consoles.

 

[MsMiharo]

I really prefer ball cancel jip in my combos. A lot more consistent (although not easy especially on females) and allows for restand or wood chipper which is better oki.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

Yeah commando doesn't struggle terribly with dvorah. I

I found that for me if you try canceling the ball cancel early the game won't read the down down correctly, so wait a bit and see the EX ball make contact, then in one swift motion do down down, dash, up njp. Hope that helps

Will try it like this when I get home. I think I was trying to mash the cancel out of ball maybe a li'l too much.

 

[Youphemism]

I think the gameplan is pretty similar for both Kano variations. Abuse the shit out of d4 (raiden hs poor answers to deal with it), win the zoning war and force him to approach, keep him out, guess right on his 50/50s and don't go in too hard on his wakeup. Anything else I'm missing?

I think this gameplan plays better into cyber's strengths... but I don't see how it's a winning MU. Raiden out damages Kano and he's going to get in eventually

EDIT: Admittedly I only have high level experience with commando vs raiden - so I'm open to anything that will help

You'd be surprised how well Kano can keep Raiden out in Cyber, but as I said if you want to talk about it I'll gladly do it in the Cyber thread

I found that for me if you try canceling the ball cancel early the game won't read the down down correctly, so wait a bit and see the EX ball make contact, then in one swift motion do down down, dash, up njp. Hope that helps

I just tap down 3 times, always works for me

 

[cR Biohazard]

You'd be surprised how well Kano can keep Raiden out in Cyber, but as I said if you want to talk about it I'll gladly do it in the Cyber thread

I just tap down 3 times, always works for me

Yeah I found that to be an option too but it's much harder to do Down 3 times on an arcade stick and then dash

 

[XxSYNDROISxX]

Here's a setup I've been doing that gives me 41% midscreen

Idk if this a true guranteed set up/ combo but I've been able to do this consistently to players. Its 41% midscreen combo/setup and really simple:

112 ex ball cancel step forward 112 knife command throw.

The combo ends with knife at 24% (or 25% can't remember) but the stagger from the knife seems to give you a small window to land a command throw (guaranteed?) Adding 17%.

If they back dash I do F4 Choke

 

[Diaphone]

I used to tap down three times... but in order to keep the forward dash timing for njp consistent I had to only tap down twice. If you arent going for njp combos then tap down 3 times... its definitely easier

 

[MsMiharo]

Ok some videos for you all. First up is what I've been talking about before, ending a punish in 32 knife. Showing some different options on how to mix them up. In theory, if in game frame data is correct they have a 3 frame window to armor, backdash, etc. Some opponents (like Kano) can backdash but you can catch it with f4 knife or f4 ball if you make a hard read. Other's like Kotal need to guess or armor (which can be parried or just blocked and punished).

Second video is just some quick stuff vs Lao. b132 in the corner should be punished by spin but isn't, which is kinda nice. Also you can can spin vs d4 tick but you can mix it up and punish. Don't know how useful but it's something.

Lastly some corner frame trap thingies. Works best vs Quan for obvious reasons but it's decent overall. If they block EX Knife > b13 choke it's almost 50% of a bar back and you're safe.

 

[Youphemism]

Don't know if I mentioned this but when I went in to look at 32 since it's so plus on hit I tried cancelling it into stuff to see what works and if I remember right 32~whiffed low parry is plus on hit but I don't know by how much. You guys could mess about with it and see what you get Edit: From some testing it looks like it's about +3.

Also *sigh* I don't know if it's been mentioned either but I just found that the second hit of EX Knife (which is a mid) whiffs on crouching opponents sometimes. WHY DO ALL HIS MIDS WHIFF? #BibleThump

 

[KungfuRhino]

Maybe you guys could help me test something, I've tried testing it with ai and a friend offline but I've just recently started playing fighting games at a level deeper then spamming specials and mashing buttons so I don't know all the tricks and how to properly test.

What I've been looking at is f4 into rib breaker. This is something that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere but from everything that I've thought of and tried testing the only way out of it is to backdash. I know f4 doesn't tick into rib breaker but if do it right as you land from f4 they're still staggering and they don't appear to be able to do anything other than backdash which you can easily follow up with another f4 or a ball or something.

I could be way off on this like I said I'm new to all of this but I have tested it to the best of my ability and haven't found anything so let me know what you guys find or if this is something known or it just doesn't work like I think it does. Thanks.

 

[countrypistol]

F4 only has 9 frames hit advantage. During those 9 frames, the opponent can only block. Throws are around 14 frames start up (I can't quite remember), so if you time the move to start up on the first available frame, it will come out at a point where only the fastest moves in the game will beat it, I.e, Cassie's flip. Armoured reversals will beat it too. Lackeys EX Uppercut knocked me out of a similar set up I was testing the other day (I think it was the d1-tick throw option select, which should work according to the frame data, but armour beat it.)

The problem with this strategy is that it requires you to be frame perfect. Too quick, the move won't come out, too slow and you could be hit out of start up. Lag makes this worse. That isn't to say it won't work, but don't depend on it.

 

[MsMiharo]

Iirc power slam is 10 frames so if you're frame perfect they have literally one frame.

 

[countrypistol]

Is power slam quicker than rib breaker?

 

[countrypistol]

@MsMiharo What time of day are you usually online? I'd like to play your Kano and see what I can learn from you.

 

[KungfuRhino]

I guess what I've been trying to figure out is whether the stagger caused by the f4 is only 9 frames because it seems to be longer than that but I'm not sure. I've gotten pretty consistent landing f4 into rib breaker even online and against ai. I don't think I've ever had someone stop it but I also don't play the best people. I do mess the input up sometimes and just end up doing a d4 which isn't the worse normal to fail into.

So I guess my real question is does the hit advantage frame data include the stagger state of opponents?

 

[MsMiharo]

Is power slam quicker than rib breaker?

Yep also more advantage.

 

[MsMiharo]

I guess what I've been trying to figure out is whether the stagger caused by the f4 is only 9 frames because it seems to be longer than that but I'm not sure. I've gotten pretty consistent landing f4 into rib breaker even online and against ai. I don't think I've ever had someone stop it but I also don't play the best people. I do mess the input up sometimes and just end up doing a d4 which isn't the worse normal to fail into.

So I guess my real question is does the hit advantage frame data include the stagger state of opponents?

Will test when I get home but won't be home until next Monday.

 

[MsMiharo]

@MsMiharo What time of day are you usually online? I'd like to play your Kano and see what I can learn from you.

I am on vacation but otherwise I'm usually on night time or morning. But PM me and we'll set something up, I'll be home next Monday.

 

[countrypistol]

It's meant to, but there's a lot of discrepancies (see couch steves thread for examples). The stagger might look longer than 9 frames due to the cool down on F4 taking a while after it hits, and the start up on other moves, opponents reaction times (average reaction time is no faster than 16 frames, add lag into the equation and it's more).

The more I think about it, the more viable the strategy appears to be.

 

[KungfuRhino]

The more I think about it, the more viable the strategy appears to be.

I really find it useful, if the opponent catches on and starts blocking f4 I start to d3 or d4 after the blocked f4 which usually allows me to low profile/poke them out of any punishes and if they just continue to block it hits on high blocks or can be turned into a tick with the d3 or d4. I've definitely been beat out by some characters with faster startups but it works fairly consistently. This with some random knife spamming and corner combos are pretty much all I need, at least at the level I play.

 

[MsMiharo]

Is it worth it? If you're certain you'll hit f4 ball is 15%. If you're uncertain/on block you can do f4 choke, stay safe on block and get 15% on hit.