Comeback Mechanisms in Fighting Games

[Eldriken]

Teched throws receive damage in most games don't they? They do in MK9 and Injustice at least

The initial grab causes damage (1-2%) when teched. But that's it.

 

[SneakyTortoise]

The initial grab causes damage (1-2%) when teched. But that's it.

Yeah was that not what he meant? Surely teched throws don't do the full damage of a throw in ST??

 

[Notez4]

MK9 did it right. That's why it's coming back. It's too simplified to view it as a comeback mechanic. You build meter three different ways and you can use that meter three different ways.

The Ultra meter is SF4 gives access to your strongest move and has no other function. And it only fills from taking damage (the more damage, the more powerful).
.

You can also gain meter by focusing through attacks. you can technically gain ultra without having taking damage at all. although the main way is taking damage, there is still another way.

 

[chemist4hire]

Teched throws receive damage in most games don't they? They do in MK9 and Injustice at least

In super turbo teched throws receive 50% of the damage a thow would have given out. Also a throw cannot be teched if the damage recieved from teching it leads to death. Also teched throws recover in the air and not on the ground. Most games don't even come close to this tech system.

 

[Flagg]

MK 9 honestly has the perfect meter system bar none.

The ultra bar of SF IV was put in for the casual player and nothing more.

 

[Youphemism]

It doesnt have a coma, it appears he begs you not to contact shit sherlock

What kind of sentence has a coma?

 

[JJvercetti]

Worst system ever, Tekken 6 and TTT2, if a character gets down on life, it triggers the rage mode which increases the damage output of who is losing to a stupid margin, if the character being used already does stupid damage just buff to the double with the rage mode and taking 3 hits might actually kill.

In TTT2 they tried to implement something to ease up, if you get hit by tag assault moves or get down on life, it triggers the rage mode, however the rage mode has a time limit and will go away after a nearly 7 seconds, tag crash also uses the rage mode. Still retarded when some characters already do rage damage by default tho.

Paul's counterhit deathfist is the prime example of this. He is my main so this ends up being the main source of rage and hatemail from opponents.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

The ultra bar of SF IV was put in for the casual player and nothing more.

The truth is though, that even tournament players get hype when someone lands an Ultra. How many moments on stream have seen a whole internet and venue full of seasoned players yelling, screaming and jumping up in disbelief when someone lands a clutch Ultra?

Think about some of Daigo's key SF4 Metsu Shoryuken moments, the Infiltration Raging Demon hype, etc. Likewise when someone whiffs or mistimes one and gets punished, people go nuts as well.

Whatever people think about it from a mechanics standpoint, it has def. added to the tournament aura of the game.

 

[chemist4hire]

What kind of sentence has a coma?

“April 6—Today, I learned, the comma, this is, a, comma (,) a period, with, a tail, Miss Kinnian, says its, importent, because, it makes writing, better, she said, somebody, could lose, a lot, of money, if a comma, isnt in, the right, place, I got, some money, that I, saved from, my job, and what, the foundation, pays me, but not, much and, I dont see how, a comma, keeps, you from, losing it,
But, she says, everybody, uses commas, so Ill, use them, too,,,,

April 7—I used the comma wrong. Its punctuation…Miss Kinnian says a period is punctuation too, and there are lots of other marks to learn.
She said; You, got. to-mix?them!up: She showd? me” how, to mix! them; up, and now! I can. mix (up all? kinds of punctuation— in, my. writing! There” are lots, of rules; to learn? but. Im’ get’ting them in my head:
One thing? I, like: about, Dear Miss Kinnian: (thats, the way? it goes; in a business letter (if I ever go! into business?) is that, she: always; gives me’ a reason” when—I ask. She”s a gen’ius! I wish? I could be smart-like-her;
Punctuation, is? fun!”
― Daniel Keyes, Flowers for Algernon

 

[Qwark28]

What kind of sentence has a coma?

a death sentence

 

[ChaosTheory]

You can also gain meter by focusing through attacks. you can technically gain ultra without having taking damage at all. although the main way is taking damage, there is still another way.

That's true and it's a good point. Ultimately, though, I see that as a more of an advanced tactic to "gamble" (for lack of a better term) that taken damage. I don't quite view it as a different meter-building source the way I differentiate using specials or inflicting chip damage like MK does.

Super meter is much more similar to MK'S meter than Ultra.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

MK 9 honestly has the perfect meter system bar none.

The ultra bar of SF IV was put in for the casual player and nothing more.

not even close

MK9 has a good balance between ex attacks and breaking...... but no usage of the xray is a downfall.

 

[Skkra]

Yeah was that not what he meant? Surely teched throws don't do the full damage of a throw in ST??

No, UNLESS the throw would kill you, in which case the tech will fail. This is because of the way they coded throw techs: throws always do their full damage, then, if you tech it, you are actually healed some life back. Of course, this seems to happen instantly. However, that means that if a throw would kill you - even if you tech - it will, since you'll eat the full damage before you heal some of it back. Wacky.

 

[Youphemism]

“April 6—Today, I learned, the comma, this is, a, comma (,) a period, with, a tail, Miss Kinnian, says its, importent, because, it makes writing, better, she said, somebody, could lose, a lot, of money, if a comma, isnt in, the right, place, I got, some money, that I, saved from, my job, and what, the foundation, pays me, but not, much and, I dont see how, a comma, keeps, you from, losing it,
But, she says, everybody, uses commas, so Ill, use them, too,,,,

April 7—I used the comma wrong. Its punctuation…Miss Kinnian says a period is punctuation too, and there are lots of other marks to learn.
She said; You, got. to-mix?them!up: She showd? me” how, to mix! them; up, and now! I can. mix (up all? kinds of punctuation— in, my. writing! There” are lots, of rules; to learn? but. Im’ get’ting them in my head:
One thing? I, like: about, Dear Miss Kinnian: (thats, the way? it goes; in a business letter (if I ever go! into business?) is that, she: always; gives me’ a reason” when—I ask. She”s a gen’ius! I wish? I could be smart-like-her;
Punctuation, is? fun!”
― Daniel Keyes, Flowers for Algernon

a death sentence

GOTSdamnit that was a good one.

 

[trufenix]

You're thinking really narrow mindedly about comeback mechanisms by saying that.

How can a system where the player getting hit, and losing life, is then given something they can use to get back in the game not be considered a comeback mechanism?

Just because you have this prejudiced thought about comeback mechanisms, where they automatically make the game bad, doesn't mean that MK9 doesn't have one. It most certainly does.

You're over selling it. (In most games) I get meter for hitting the same as you get meter for getting hit. Maybe you get a little more over time or I have to work a little harder to get mine, but in most games meter gain / use is actually about equal for both parties. Saying meter gain is a comeback mechanic is like saying the opposing team getting the ball after a goal in (pick a sport) is a comeback mechanic. It certainly keeps the game competitive, but it does not intrinsically give the losing party a benefit or facilitate a comeback. And that has dick to do with the fact that I think they're fucking stupid.

 

[trufenix]

You can also gain meter by focusing through attacks. you can technically gain ultra without having taking damage at all. although the main way is taking damage, there is still another way.

You still lose the life, you just have the chance to recover it. You focus away all your life, you still die.

 

[cyke_out]

Several games give you meter for taking damage. It doesn't mean it's a comeback mechanic.

Rage, ultra, X factor, that God damned blue shell..., Those are comeback mechanics.

 

[SneakyTortoise]

Several games give you meter for taking damage. It doesn't mean it's a comeback mechanic.

Rage, ultra, X factor, that God damned blue shell..., Those are comeback mechanics.

If you get given something beneficial for losing life then that IS a comeback mechanism, whether you like the term or not

 

[juicepouch]

AGREEEEEEED. UGH. I most of the time absolutely refuse to clash against WoWo because she always has as much meter as I do or more. -.-

I would definitely like clash a lot more if i played characters that got better meterless damage lol

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

212exrune212exrune212exrune

#allineed

 

[Shark Tank]

Quite a few (2d) games use the system similar to mk9 whereas you get meter from getting hit. MVC3, Kof, and some other games I can't think of. BB doesn't but you build meter passively in that game. Disregarding the semantics of the definition of a "comback", I think this system(mk9's) is fine. You could tune some things, but overall it's intuitive and simple. In regards to whether sf4 is better, I don't like U meter. Getting hit in that game give you a powerful option that isn't available to your opponent. Whereas getting meter in MK9 you aren't getting an option that your opponent can't have unless he trades life. In mkx that's even less relevant because you now build meter for hitting you opponent so they're net negative. I also don't like adding meters for the sake of one move. I think UI wise it's just inefficient. Nowadays with the design philosophy's of current fg devs they're always going to be there. I hated them at first, now I'm pretty apathetic if it's not substantial. You can make the case of it being a necessary evil. Although certain ones are just fucking retarded, excessive and cheapen the quality of the game and shouldn't be downplayed(x-factor).

 

[trufenix]

If you get given something beneficial for losing life then that IS a comeback mechanism, whether you like the term or not

So you're just ignoring the fact that you also get it for taking life?

 

[SneakyTortoise]

So you're just ignoring the fact that you also get it for taking life?

No, I'm not at all. The game is comprised of all different mechanisms that overlap and integrate.

You get rewarded for attacking (get given meter) and you get given more meter for getting hit, which is the comeback factor.

Just because the reward is the same thing, doesn't mean that there aren't two systems at play here. I'm not sure what you don't understand

 

[cyke_out]

You want to call it a comeback mechanic, then fine. I'm not going to split hairs and argue over symantics. But it is much more elegant and diverse and unobtrusive compared to SF4.

The "loser" isn't gaining anything he wouldn't have gotten normally. And since EX moves, breakers and x-rays are all tied to the same bar, it requires more forethought and choices in how to use the meter. In fact, nothing changes as drastically as oppossed to fighting an opponent with or without an ultra in SF4.

 

[187x]

GOTSdamnit that was a good one.

thats kinda creepy