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Characters Who Carry Garbage Players and Play

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Pyrosis

Gentlemen, behold! My opinion!
I'm talking about MK11, not those games. I played through all those too and MK11 level of balance is a lot better than those but still not stupid good balanced. And there's definitely individual buttons, moves, playstyles that characters have that definitely carry bad players online.
 
Jade is super good and carries super hard in Kombat League. No cap. She has buttons that are too good ONLINE, sorry yall are in your feelings over it but it's big true. Jade vs Shao is 9-1 online and all she has to do get carried is jump back projectile and check with down 4.
I think only one person in this thread is in their feelings.
Also you didn't answer my question, Jaded and Untamable don't have air projectiles so idk what you are talking about.
 

Pyrosis

Gentlemen, behold! My opinion!
I think only one person in this thread is in their feelings.
Also you didn't answer my question, Jaded and Untamable don't have air projectiles so idk what you are talking about.
I don't have to answer no question from you, Chief. I don't dance when you ask.
 

Pyrosis

Gentlemen, behold! My opinion!
I mean that's literally how you fight that archetype lol.
For sure. Just literally never get poked and keep your turn the entire match. With MK11's wake up system. Ok.
Why didn't I think of that.
 
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CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I don't know where this idea came from that mixups and 50/50s aren't a valid tenet of fighting games -- but they are. You will find them in most of the major fighting titles, going back years to decades.

Not all 50/50's area reactable. Usually the way they're dealt with is to make some kind of drawback -- speed (they get beat by faster normals, even if they're not fast enough to react to), safety (they're unsafe on block), or damage (one or both options doesn't lead to a ton of damage). It's not necessary for unreactable mixes to have ALL of the above drawbacks, but they usually have some of them.

The second set of possible drawbacks involves the character's overall toolset vs. the meta. For example, maybe the character is built to be oppressive up close, but doesn't zone well, or doesn't have the greatest mobility, or has some other aspect that puts them at a disadvantage before they're in range to mix.

In addition, MU-wise, there can be other meta-specific drawbacks, like range (you need to get into a range that puts you at a disadvantage vs. another character's normals/tools, for example), or hitboxes (the normals don't anti-air well if people jump in on them, etc).

Just like every other tenet of fighting games that can be annoying, it's up to you to 1) Find ways to keep the opponent from getting into the situation that's most disadvantageous for you in any MU and 2) Punish your opponent to the fullest whenever you block something that's negative enough or bait a whiff. The fact that most Sub-Zero (and since she was mentioned, Jade) players aren't getting very far vs. good players of other characters, even in online tournaments, tells you that both of these things are happening with regularity.

This is Fighting Games 101. If you don't want to deal with it, you should probably pick up Among Us or Rocket League or Fortnite and call it a day. Good luck.
 

Pyrosis

Gentlemen, behold! My opinion!
I don't know where this idea came from that mixups and 50/50s aren't a valid tenet of fighting games -- but they are. You will find them in most of the major fighting titles, going back years to decades.

Not all 50/50's area reactable. Usually the way they're dealt with is to make some kind of drawback -- speed (they get beat by faster normals, even if they're not fast enough to react to), safety (they're unsafe on block), or damage (one or both options doesn't lead to a ton of damage). It's not necessary for unreactable mixes to have ALL of the above drawbacks, but they usually have some of them.

The second set of possible drawbacks involves the character's overall toolset vs. the meta. For example, maybe the character is built to be oppressive up close, but doesn't zone well, or doesn't have the greatest mobility, or has some other aspect that puts them at a disadvantage before they're in range to mix.

In addition, MU-wise, there can be other meta-specific drawbacks, like range (you need to get into a range that puts you at a disadvantage vs. another character's normals/tools, for example), or hitboxes (the normals don't anti-air well if people jump in on them, etc).

Just like every other tenet of fighting games that can be annoying, it's up to you to 1) Find ways to keep the opponent from getting into the situation that's most disadvantageous for you in any MU and 2) Punish your opponent to the fullest whenever you block something that's negative enough or bait a whiff. The fact that most Sub-Zero (and since she was mentioned, Jade) players aren't getting very far vs. good players of other characters, even in online tournaments, tells you that both of these things are happening with regularity.

This is Fighting Games 101. If you don't want to deal with it, you should probably pick up Among Us or Rocket League or Fortnite and call it a day. Good luck.
Hey man that's wild. But still not the point I'm making.
 

Pyrosis

Gentlemen, behold! My opinion!
I never imagined making a thread about how some characters have some fraudulent ass tools in online that carry worse players than you would end up with so many people tryna Son Talk me. Trying to claim that I'm saying clicking on Jade, Sub, etc is an instant win... Like how y'all infer this?

Did I say they out here clowning ME every time I play them just cause they clicked them. No. Never said that.
Did I say that they literally cannot be beat with ANYONE at the helm of them. No.
Did I say that they carry bad players, and a couple things about these characters allow for worse players to beat players more knowledgable/better at the game sometimes. Yeah.

So many of y'all are out here literally making COSMIC LEAPS in logic to fit what I'm saying into your narrative. And... I'm not saying none of that. So idk.
 
Lets put it simple , i was playing aggainst a new guy , he was rly bad .He couldnt take a round from me with ANY character . All of a sudden he picks joker and im bearly keeping an even score . So to sum it up , there are characters that carry and reward dumb players . In this game there is at least 3 of em , if not more . Nrs just made those characters that way and there is nothing we can do about it . Some people banned JB from tournaments so that NRS gets a message that they should nerf her. Lets see in the next patch if they did .
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Lets put it simple , i was playing aggainst a new guy , he was rly bad .He couldnt take a round from me with ANY character . All of a sudden he picks joker and im bearly keeping an even score . So to sum it up , there are characters that carry and reward dumb players . In this game there is at least 3 of em , if not more . Nrs just made those characters that way and there is nothing we can do about it . Some people banned JB from tournaments so that NRS gets a message that they should nerf her. Lets see in the next patch if they did .
And instead of thinking "Maybe I don't know how to fight Joker well" or "Maybe this guy was screwing around with alts until he picked the character he's best at/really plays" you thought "Omg scrub carried by Joker ggs".

That right there tells you everything you need to know about the mindset in this thread.
 

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Elder God
One night I dreamed a dream.
As I was walking along the beach with Rambo.
Across the dark sky flashed scenes from my life.
For each scene, I noticed two sets of footprints in the sand,
One belonging to me and one to Rambo.

After the last scene of my life flashed before me,
I looked back at the footprints in the sand.
I noticed that at many times along the path of my life,
especially at the very lowest and saddest times,
there was only one set of footprints.

This really troubled me, so I asked Rambo about it.
"Rambo, you said once I decided to follow you,
You'd walk with me all the way.
But I noticed that during the saddest and most troublesome times of my life,
there was only one set of footprints.
I don't understand why, when I needed You the most, You would leave me."

He whispered, "My precious child, I love you and will never leave you
Never, ever, during your trials and testings.
When you saw only one set of footprints,
It was then that I carried you."
 

BRAZILIAN SHEEP

Apprentice
Kabal. Jacqui, and wi fi jade. There are more, but these 3 like....I say here in Brazil to my friends that I cant really see if a Kabal player is good or not, because the game gives leeway to everything he does. Free jump ins, free strings, the damage is an insult....is so high reward and low risk.

I am really looking foward to see changes on the frame data of these characters.

The problem with jade is wi fi....and the absurdity of being not negative enough in some situations.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
“I think only one person in this thread is in their feelings.
Also you didn't answer my question, Jaded and Untamable don't have air projectiles so idk what you are talking about.”
I don't have to answer no question from you, Chief. I don't dance when you ask.
If “oh shit. He’s right but I can’t let them know he’s right” was a person.

This is what happens when you try to be a smart ass but end up looking like a dumbass instead
 

Marlow

Champion
One night I dreamed a dream.
As I was walking along the beach with Rambo.
Across the dark sky flashed scenes from my life.
For each scene, I noticed two sets of footprints in the sand,
One belonging to me and one to Rambo.

After the last scene of my life flashed before me,
I looked back at the footprints in the sand.
I noticed that at many times along the path of my life,
especially at the very lowest and saddest times,
there was only one set of footprints.

This really troubled me, so I asked Rambo about it.
"Rambo, you said once I decided to follow you,
You'd walk with me all the way.
But I noticed that during the saddest and most troublesome times of my life,
there was only one set of footprints.
I don't understand why, when I needed You the most, You would leave me."

He whispered, "My precious child, I love you and will never leave you
Never, ever, during your trials and testings.
When you saw only one set of footprints,
It was then that I carried you."
Dammit I was going to make this same joke but I couldn't get there in time.
 

Marlow

Champion
I never imagined making a thread about how some characters have some fraudulent ass tools in online that carry worse players than you
I mean, if your point is that some characters allow "bad" players to go slightly farther than they would with other characters due to being able to spam the same couple of moves over and over, fine. That's a valid point, and true. But that's also true of literally any fighting game. There's also a hard ceiling on how far those characters are going to carry you, so I'm not sure what the problem is.

I'm terrible at MK11. I could probably pick up Sub Zero and just spam his 50/50 all day, and maybe I'll pick up a few extra wins against "better" players than I'd get trying to play as Raiden, but pretty soon I'm going to start running into players who know how to punish me hard every time when they block my mix, and outplay me enough in neutral that I can't even get my mix going.

Again, I'd look at this as less of a problem, and more of an opportunity. In the long run you can outplay them.
 

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
I never imagined making a thread about how some characters have some fraudulent ass tools in online that carry worse players than you would end up with so many people tryna Son Talk me. Trying to claim that I'm saying clicking on Jade, Sub, etc is an instant win... Like how y'all infer this?

Did I say they out here clowning ME every time I play them just cause they clicked them. No. Never said that.
Did I say that they literally cannot be beat with ANYONE at the helm of them. No.
Did I say that they carry bad players, and a couple things about these characters allow for worse players to beat players more knowledgable/better at the game sometimes. Yeah.

So many of y'all are out here literally making COSMIC LEAPS in logic to fit what I'm saying into your narrative. And... I'm not saying none of that. So idk.
The issue is, you're contradicting yourself. The term carried means that a bad player can use a character to get easy wins with, but you're saying "selecting them isn't an instant win," when carried usually means that. It means you win without effort, you win without thinking and you win without skill. So of course people are trying to tell you that most of the characters you listed don't actually carry, what you meant to say probably is that they're frustrating to play against and can't adapt to them in KL, not that they carry.

If you wanted to say that certain characters have great tools, then you talk about those tools specifically, because Jade overall sucks ass. But if you personally can't deal with her zoning, then you'll get rekt. Doesn't mean she carries, it just means you can't counter zoning.
 

Pyrosis

Gentlemen, behold! My opinion!
The issue is, you're contradicting yourself. The term carried means that a bad player can use a character to get easy wins with, but you're saying "selecting them isn't an instant win," when carried usually means that. It means you win without effort, you win without thinking and you win without skill. So of course people are trying to tell you that most of the characters you listed don't actually carry, what you meant to say probably is that they're frustrating to play against and can't adapt to them in KL, not that they carry.

If you wanted to say that certain characters have great tools, then you talk about those tools specifically, because Jade overall sucks ass. But if you personally can't deal with her zoning, then you'll get rekt. Doesn't mean she carries, it just means you can't counter zoning.
The problem is that I've not contradicted myself and I've exactly clarified what I'm saying like 10 times now but soon as someone sees a MK player dare to say a character has some busted tools online that can carry someone who's bad against similar skill players, and sometimes even better skill players, they literally pop a boner and cant wait to open up the copy/paste notepad file and Ctrl+V "You just need to lab the match up scrub" "Mentality bad" 7,000 times.

You can lab the match up for days and enter the match like a fucking zen master and Sub's overhead is still going to be unreactable online. Joker is still going to have insane movement and can confirm everything into a safe move with variable flawless block gap timings... These are all things that are universally agreed upon busted. Going to SMALL extra step and saying those busted things carry bad or near equal skill opponents is not that large a reach, but everyone here acting like saying that is saying a character automatically wins and there's nothing you can do about it.

At this point I can actually not clarify my point any more than I have already.

This whole thread is literally turned into like 10 ppl turning up their noses.
 
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