Question Changes for MK9 PC. Can we agree on a tournament mod?

[STB Shujinkydink]

Why don't we all vote on character reps to come up with buffs/nerfs. That way more people can focus energy on one character. (Sorry if I'm repeating ideas thread TL;DR)

 

[DOOMSDAY-15RUS-]

I disagree with nerfing high tiers. What we should really focus on is buffing the low tiers to help them stand a chance against top tier characters.

Something every game developer fail to understand when it comes to balancing a game.

i agree with u but not for 100% , i prefer to buff lows but when some of top tiers got rly imbalanced shit like superman breath positive on block it's must be nerferd like they do in 1.05

 

[STRYKIE]

F2 overhead
F212 overhead-low-mid mix up
2,3,F2 no longer have gaps in between
B2 0 on block
Staff Grab now 0 on block instead of -10
B3 now links to Staff Overhead
4 now links to Staff Overhead
F2 now links to Staff Overhead
1,2 now links to Staff Overhead
1,2,2 high-high-overhead and safe on block.
original damage nerf restored
U3 nerf now restored
Up, Straight, Low Boomerangs now the speed of Kano's Knives
Large hitbox adjusted to Kitana's small hitbox size
Current D4 changed to Mileena's D4 type

Hitboxes would most probably be universal, unless you're under the impression that NRS makes hitboxes low or big deliberately. Did you know Stryker has the lowest hitbox in the MK3 series?

 

[Rampage254]

i agree with u but not for 100% , i prefer to buff lows but when some of top tiers got rly imbalanced shit like superman breath positive on block it's must be nerferd like they do in 1.05

You are not the real Rampage. I am.

 

[WannabePlayer]

Not necessarily, he'd have more reason to use X-ray. Never bothered the Sub forums of all people.

His Xray is awful for escaping pressure. It takes too long to startup and recover. And why the hell would you waste three bars of meter versus one? Smoke has no armor aside from his useless xray. The fairest way to give it to him is in the form of an 11% move that you can't combo off of.

 

[Flagg]

he has supported armour on slide

No, he supported armour on divekick. Ask him.

 

[EdFig81]

If there truly is no more patches coming for MK9 (still holding out hope) then It would be awesome to try and agree on one Mod for the PC version that could be used in future tournaments. I feel like the changes I am proposing would make a more balanced game and more competitive game in tournaments.

Kabal:
Remove option to cancel EX dash. He still gets the armor but no more flash parry.

Kenshi:
Make shoulder charge punishable on Block like Ermacs push. EX one remains the same frame advantage.

Sonya:
EX cartwheel is punishable on block like Cage's nutpunch.

Reptile:
His EX dash is no longer interruptable.

Cyrax:
More frames on startup for command grab. Remove Breaker Combo.

Smoke:
Remove reset.

Cage:
Remove random advantage if possible.

Kano:
Armor on EX choke grab


Honestly if these changes were made a lot of lower tier characters could compete with the new high tier. You would still have High and low tier and winning and losing matchups. But the game would be much more interesting in my opinion. You wouldn't even have to really buff the low tiers if the top tiers were nerfed slightly like this. Again, this a starting point with minimal changes. I don't feel like the game needs a lot of changes.

If this thread gets a lot of responses maybe in the future we could make a poll on which changes the community wants, once all the ideas are out in the open.

Anyword if this game will support steamworks for easy mods? That would make getting mods easy. I would love to see what our kommunity can do for this on pc. I will be on day one of this release. Steam name is EdFig81 I also wonder if this will use gsme for windows live like mkak does currently.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2

 

[EdFig81]

I want a mod that makes subzeros ground freeze actually worth using. I have never played a fighting game where I ignored and never used a special move as I do with subzero in mk9.
I wsnt to juggle the ground freeze of an AA like I use to in UMK
Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2

 

[gdf]

All that Kung lao needs is a safe EX Spin (-4) along with just the 3rd hit of that move to launch and his EX Tele-throw armor glitch removed and he's good to go.

It would be nice if he had mobile armor in some respect though, the characters that are top tier in this game either have armor to blow through other's moves and establish pressure, or use them as get out of jail free cards.

Kung Lao's ex teleport glitch is what slows down his bad matches.

 

[NariTuba]

Kabal:
Remove option to cancel EX dash. He still gets the armor but no more flash parry.

Kenshi:
Make shoulder charge punishable on Block like Ermacs push. EX one remains the same frame advantage.

Sonya:
EX cartwheel is punishable on block like Cage's nutpunch.

Cyrax:
More frames on startup for command grab. Remove Breaker Combo.

First of all, great thread man.

Ill give you my take on these 4:

Kabal: Character moves that dumb down the metagame are what I dislike the most about MK9 (apart from the bugs of course). The IAGB is one of these moves. Escenssially, as you implied on another post, a descision has to be made as to whether Kabal is a rushdown or a zoning character. I personally prefer him to be rushdown. If the zoning is gone as we know it today, then he doesnt build meter while risk free to abuse the armor. I say just increase the recovery of IAGB so that its only slightly better that regular GB. Liu Kangs should be faster for example, to offset for its poor hurtbox.


Cyrax: As a Cyrax main Ive thought of this a lot. Honestly, I would like to see Cyrax lose the resets and gain some footsies. It would actually make him much more fun to play, and almost equally as good. Combos would drop to 60% max damage for 1 bar, and 50% for vortex. People would have to learn to hitconfirm into Exbomb for vortex combos, and the character would gain depth.

As he is right now, you basically need to chase most characters around the screen while taking damage in order to land that one net you need. If you take his damage but give him another footsie tool (like giving him a faster startup on F2 for example), he becomes much more interesting and varied.

Another option is instead of buffing his footsie game you give him an even more dangerous upclose game. Like a hit confirmable mid (ie. standing 3) or make his u4 + on block for example.


I completely agree with both your Sonya and Kenshi suggestions!

anyway, my 2 cents. Long live MK9

 

[Vocket]

. . .

I think in completely the opposite way in regards to balancing kabal. I believe it is possible to balance a character without changing their play style too much, unless of course they are so unbalanced that they cannot be fixed simply by changing frame data. (changing frame data would seem to be the easiest and simplest way to balance to me)

In addition, I also want to balance in a way that would leave less lopsided matchups. Kenshi, for example, has more 5-5's than Kabal but utterly destroys some characters. Aiming for max 7-3 or 3-7 matchups with the occasional 8-2 would eliminate easy counter picks and stupid match ups.

For Kabal, I think his most lopsided matchups are where he has full pressure options, and the ability to outzone effortlessly. NRS probably meant for his original play style to be a hit and run zoner, who spams gas blast most of the round then suddenly approaches to throw you back. I will balance aiming towards that goal. In other words, I will be hitting his rushdown hard.

First of all, 2NDC "infinite" has to go, it is simply too unfair against large hitbox characters. I would reduce it to +4 on block.

The basis of kabal rushdown is that it is actually not that fast, but very plus on block, and with the ability to end in a safe 50/50.
F3 and B1 are both 13 frames, and become essentially 10 frames after f32ndc and b12ndc. Everyone can out poke out of repetitions of his most useful strings and some can jab out.

F4 prevents all that as a ridiculous 9 frame mid that can be made safe with saws. This is where I become troubled, as there are many options to nerf it.

• Make F4 slower.
• Make saws, and maybe overhead slam too, unsafe on block
• Be able interrupt with full combo against F4~NDC on block and/or hit.
• Remove F4's ability to do a standing reset or massively reduce the advantage the reset gives.

A combination of the above would bring kabal's rushdown to a reasonable level. He would play against high and low hitbox characters more equally too. The other thing that might need to be nerfed is his flash parry, with its ability to negate wake ups while being a great one itself.

The new Kabal would still be a gas blast spewing machine with a stupid armored nomad dash to counter zoning and a light speed saw, but he would not dominate so much up close. He would now lose to kenshi, freddy, and maybe liu kang.

I am not a kabal main but have suffered under his burnt hands, and kabal balance suggestions are certain to be the most popular for its tormented victims. Hopefully the kabal mains and everyone else can at least agree whether to nerf his zoning or rushdown.

 

[DOOMSDAY-15RUS-]

You are not the real Rampage. I am.

lol , again u . i want to change my TYM name but i don't know how to do, is it possible ?

 

[Glass Sword]

I've actually kept a list of modest and hopefully realistic changes. This is my opinion of course.

Changes MK9
Scorpion - d4 normalized, d3 normalized
Sub-Zero - Less scaling after freezing opponent, ex clone beats armor, scaling on the freeze from ex moves has been removed
Mileena - X Ray is now an overhead, 4 is now 12 frames, d1 is now +1 on hit
Liu Kang - parry now starts up in 6 frames both version
Kitana - ex pretty kick now has armor
Sektor - ex burner now has armor
Reptile - ex slide now properly connects every time on hit
Kung Lao - armor from ex teleport has been normalized after a whiffed grab
Kenshi - ex spirit charge is now zero on block, spirit charge nows starts up in 10 frames
Rain - forward dash has been improved, d3 and d4 have been normalized
Ermac - d3 has been normalized, ex TKP now has armor
Kabal - EX nomad dash is no longer cancelable, air gas blast has more recovery, 2 has slightly less cancel advantage
Sonya - ex cartwheel is now -10 on block., ring blast now has more start up
Johnny Cage - nothing
Smoke - ex telepunch now has armor, reset removed
Jax - f4,1 now hits all crouching characters, damage scaled heavily after ex ground pound
Cyber Sub Zero - d3 and d4 normalized, ex slide now has full armor and allows for a follow up slide after hit, both version of ice ball have been slightly sped up
Nightwolf - f3 is now a low, I am stumped?
Cyrax- second net causes a knockdown or something to stop the resets, 2 frames of extra startup on command grab
This is where I get weird...
Noob - b1 is now 16 frames of start up, b2 is now 14 frames of start up, tackle is now 0 on hit, slide is now 0 on hit, ex tackle now move twice as fast and is +1 on block, ex slide now allows for a follow up combo when used mid screen on hit, air normals now will hit when portal is out, two clones can be out if ex tackle is used first
Kano- ex choke is now armored, choke is 0 on block and +1 on hit, make some strings faster so there are less gaps, b2 (the overhead?) now 20 frames, knifes are now "old" knifes
Skarlet - nothing
Shang Tsung - nothing
Stryker - 2 is 12 frames, b3 is 16 frames, he needs more...
Raiden - reverse some of his nerfs not the teleport one the other ones
Baraka- auto correct chop chops, others stuff?
Sindel - cartwheel now has armor, this character?
Jade and Sheeva are a crap shoot

 

[AssassiN]

AK Glass_Sword

I'd add one thing to Kabal: Saw isn't active behind Kabal.

 

[Badboy Takuma]

i would love to read some game adjustments from tom brady, reo and usedforlu

 

[Son ov Timett]

This is very interesting, NRS can give us a patch for console gratis.

Microsoft no longer charges developers for Xbox 360 title updates, Eurogamer has been told by multiple development sources.
Microsoft made the policy change on the quiet earlier this year after charging developers tens of thousands of dollars to patch their games.
Microsoft has always charged a fee when developers first submit their games to Microsoft's certification process so they can be approved for release, and the company normally grants developers one title update free of charge. This remains the case, but sources have told Eurogamer that subsequent re-certification as a result of a title update is now free. This applies to Xbox Live Arcade games and full retail games.
There are caveats, we understand. If a developer is deemed to be making an excessive number of re-submissions due to an update failing certification, for example, Microsoft reserves the right to issue a charge. But the changes should make critics of Microsoft's closed platform happier - and align the Xbox ecosystem more closely with the likes of Steam.

-Source
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-26-microsoft-no-longer-charges-developers-to-patch-their-xbox-360-games
http://www.oxm.co.uk/57153/microsoft-stops-charging-developers-to-update-xbox-360-games/

 

[GLoRToR]

This is very interesting, NRS can give us a patch for console gratis.

Microsoft no longer charges developers for Xbox 360 title updates, Eurogamer has been told by multiple development sources.
Microsoft made the policy change on the quiet earlier this year after charging developers tens of thousands of dollars to patch their games.
Microsoft has always charged a fee when developers first submit their games to Microsoft's certification process so they can be approved for release, and the company normally grants developers one title update free of charge. This remains the case, but sources have told Eurogamer that subsequent re-certification as a result of a title update is now free. This applies to Xbox Live Arcade games and full retail games.
There are caveats, we understand. If a developer is deemed to be making an excessive number of re-submissions due to an update failing certification, for example, Microsoft reserves the right to issue a charge. But the changes should make critics of Microsoft's closed platform happier - and align the Xbox ecosystem more closely with the likes of Steam.

-Source
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-26-microsoft-no-longer-charges-developers-to-patch-their-xbox-360-games
http://www.oxm.co.uk/57153/microsoft-stops-charging-developers-to-update-xbox-360-games/

hecterrific

 

[NariTuba]

I think in completely the opposite way in regards to balancing kabal. I believe it is possible to balance a character without changing their play style too much...

For Kabal, I think his most lopsided matchups are where he has full pressure options, and the ability to outzone effortlessly. NRS probably meant for his original play style to be a hit and run zoner, who spams gas blast most of the round then suddenly approaches to throw you back. I will balance aiming towards that goal. In other words, I will be hitting his rushdown hard.

Kabals playstyle right now is ALL playstyles... He has some of the best offensive options in the game and he has THE best defence in the game. The problem with him is that he produces meter for free, which is stupid. All his rushdown options become less powerfull if he cant make meter for free. Without IAGB spamming and significantlly less meter he would now have to sweat other rushdown characters and even some mid and low tiers.

I honestly dont care what NRS intended him to be, I care about whats fun to me. Guessing right and interrupting his rushdown is fun to me, navigating through IAGB spam is NOT. I also wouldnt nerf both his zoning AND rushdown, whats the point? The less changes you make, the less unintended side effects you'll have to deal with later. Plus, if I as a player have to work hard to beat my opponent's Kabal, I want him to work hard to beat me too... not repeat ONE move over and over.

First of all, 2NDC "infinite" has to go, it is simply too unfair against large hitbox characters. I would reduce it to +4 on block.

F4 prevents all that as a ridiculous 9 frame mid that can be made safe with saws. This is where I become troubled, as there are many options to nerf it.

• Make F4 slower.
• Make saws, and maybe overhead slam too, unsafe on block
• Be able interrupt with full combo against F4~NDC on block and/or hit.
• Remove F4's ability to do a standing reset or massively reduce the advantage the reset gives.

2~ndc is not really relevant, no one can get more than a couple just frame repetitions and it cannot be hit confirmed.

A lot of characters can interrupt f4~ndc with full combo. Even the 50/50 leaves him negative on block. The problem right now is that he can spam iagb until he has armor and then come in with the 50/50... which means you cant take advantage of the + frames since you will be eating the armor dash or flash parry. If you remove his ability to gain meter for free, you also make him a more risky character in his rushdown.

 

[RTM2004]

Hitboxes would most probably be universal, unless you're under the impression that NRS makes hitboxes low or big deliberately.

It sucks that zoning character have big hitboxes like Freddy, Kenshi, Sindel, Liu Kang while rushdown character have small hitboxes like Johnny Cage, Kitana, Jax, Sonya, Mileena then we got characters like Kabal, Johnny Cage and Jax who abuse big hitbox characters where meter glitch happens a lot and big hitbox characters like Sheeva who have problems against small hitboxes like Mileena, Sektor.

Injustice plays more fair regarding hitboxes when I asked Tom Brady about size issues in his thread. Hitbox sizes are a big issue in MK9.

 

[STRYKIE]

It sucks that zoning character have big hitboxes like Freddy, Kenshi, Sindel, Liu Kang while rushdown character have small hitboxes like Johnny Cage, Kitana, Jax, Sonya, Mileena then we got characters like Kabal, Johnny Cage and Jax who abuse big hitbox characters where meter glitch happens a lot and big hitbox characters like Sheeva who have problems against small hitboxes like Mileena, Sektor.

Injustice plays more fair regarding hitboxes when I asked Tom Brady about size issues in his thread. Hitbox sizes are a big issue in MK9.

Well that's the thing, where does Jade come into this? Her hitboxes have always been random as fuck, she made Sub-Zero's, KL's and I think Nightwolf's JP/SUJK starters whiff in UMK3.

I agree with Kabal abusing big hitboxes but we couldn't have foreseen that anyway, Cage's F3 is a makeshift low crush so you have to respect his pressure regardless. I've never seen the big deal with Jax though, unless you become over-entitled through playing a character that makes F41 whiff.

Aren't Noob and Scorpion horrible matchups for Sheeva, who don't have low hitboxes? They null the majority of her footsie game on reaction. That's nothing to do with a huge hitbox, that's just being the worst character in the game by a landslide.

With all due respect to Injustice, it's not hard to have hitboxes that are "fairer" in a game with no input bug, meter drain and a training mode that helps you discipline yourself against pressure lol.

 

[aj1701]

This is very interesting, NRS can give us a patch for console gratis.

Microsoft no longer charges developers for Xbox 360 title updates, Eurogamer has been told by multiple development sources.
Microsoft made the policy change on the quiet earlier this year after charging developers tens of thousands of dollars to patch their games.
Microsoft has always charged a fee when developers first submit their games to Microsoft's certification process so they can be approved for release, and the company normally grants developers one title update free of charge. This remains the case, but sources have told Eurogamer that subsequent re-certification as a result of a title update is now free. This applies to Xbox Live Arcade games and full retail games.
There are caveats, we understand. If a developer is deemed to be making an excessive number of re-submissions due to an update failing certification, for example, Microsoft reserves the right to issue a charge. But the changes should make critics of Microsoft's closed platform happier - and align the Xbox ecosystem more closely with the likes of Steam.

-Source
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-26-microsoft-no-longer-charges-developers-to-patch-their-xbox-360-games
http://www.oxm.co.uk/57153/microsoft-stops-charging-developers-to-update-xbox-360-games/[/quote]

They still gotta pay people to make and test the changes then get them published. And its not clear if the change is retroactive.

 

[FCP/EMP SCAR]

seems the mods are already digging in the game, no better batman then a black batman jax as bruce wayne? That armored batman?? Leggo!