Cassie Cage General Discussion Thread

[JDE]

Oh shit, I never think to use that string.

It's easy to overlook since it's a 10 frame high starting out, but you can use it as a meaty, and almost the same as her 111 string, just not an autoshimmy. Just a really good string with stagger potential. The 3rd hit of the string is -5 so you're safe to do it. 124 is actually godlike too imo. So are F34 & F343 mindgames. You can force people into making the mistake into block attack punishing or trying to flawless with F34 then shimmy them with B2, F4, B3, or F2 or go back into your offense. It's -3 too so imo it's really good to stagger with as well. F41 into upglow kick has the same mindgame just a little bit more negative, but you really can develop a mindgame scheme with her strings.

Edit: 21d2 I meant, not 21D3. haha. Typo.

 

[lionheart21]

I've been finding myself using 21 and 21D2 more often too. 21 is really good on block as a stagger at -1. Should they block low, the last hit is an overhead.

I never think about using 21D2, mainly because I forgot she has it.

 

[JDE]

A "little" off topic, but I now know who Kitana's, Cassie's, Jade's & Jacqui's actual models are for the game. AND they are all sooo freaking beautiful. Haaalp!!!! Lmao.

 

[ScreamQueen]

Man, a long post incoming but I need to clear the system.
I need some help. I can handle my own at MK 11. I have a lot of execution down, some high damaging combos, good footsies. My wins far outnumber my losses, and I even have certain matchups down pat. But I just had a session that left me so salty I was ready to uninstall (I won't haha ;p )

Basically, I keep having certain opponents impose their will on me from round start to end. When I come up against good players who're running Noob, Kang, Kotal, even Scorpion. They seem to go through this ritual where they never stop attacking, I can't find the gaps, and even if I defend against their strings spot-on, I dont get a turn, everything gets stuffed with D1's fresh string openers. When they do connect, the stream of damage they get off of my mistake can be ultra frustrating.
On top of that, I'm still struggling against random teleport mixups (Lao, Liu for example) and even runaway Jades who, even when I play long, patient, drawn out rounds, still just seems to be impenetrable (online not helping ). Yet I'll come up against a high ranking Sub or Erron and mop the floor with them.

I guess I just need more practice, look at my profile subline - this ain't my first rodeo, but my game seems to consist of constant resets (basically, if they read/block a combo attempt - say F41 into whatever - I'm left stumped how to stay in charge, so to speak. It always just goes back to a neutral face-off.)

Any general advice for any of this? Where should I start? Not looking for instant answers, just some tips on how to start adapting to the onslaught, or how to stay in control when a string is blocked out.
Cheers for reading anyway. I'm sure I'm just salty af is all

 

[JDE]

Man, a long post incoming but I need to clear the system.
I need some help. I can handle my own at MK 11. I have a lot of execution down, some high damaging combos, good footsies. My wins far outnumber my losses, and I even have certain matchups down pat. But I just had a session that left me so salty I was ready to uninstall (I won't haha ;p )

Basically, I keep having certain opponents impose their will on me from round start to end. When I come up against good players who're running Noob, Kang, Kotal, even Scorpion. They seem to go through this ritual where they never stop attacking, I can't find the gaps, and even if I defend against their strings spot-on, I dont get a turn, everything gets stuffed with D1's fresh string openers. When they do connect, the stream of damage they get off of my mistake can be ultra frustrating.
On top of that, I'm still struggling against random teleport mixups (Lao, Liu for example) and even runaway Jades who, even when I play long, patient, drawn out rounds, still just seems to be impenetrable (online not helping ). Yet I'll come up against a high ranking Sub or Erron and mop the floor with them.

I guess I just need more practice, look at my profile subline - this ain't my first rodeo, but my game seems to consist of constant resets (basically, if they read/block a combo attempt - say F41 into whatever - I'm left stumped how to stay in charge, so to speak. It always just goes back to a neutral face-off.)

Any general advice for any of this? Where should I start? Not looking for instant answers, just some tips on how to start adapting to the onslaught, or how to stay in control when a string is blocked out.
Cheers for reading anyway. I'm sure I'm just salty af is all

The best advice for characters who teleport are to go to the lab & use the recording & playback functionality & then record each teleport for each recording role then train against it. Practice reactions to them with punishment & interruptions with d1, d2 or block punishment.

Lao you can just backdash then whiff punish or just d2 but backdashing is the best thing because he can delay his teleport and then you wouldn’t have to deal with him shenanigans period. All you’d have to do is force him to whiff. The others apply to Scorpion & Noob.

Liu Kang you have to play the mid range game & then train yourself to react to his string gaps & throws the same way you’d use the recording and playback function for teleport stuff. Like F43U3 has a big gap to where you can stand jab into a combo. He also has 12and both whiff on crouch. It’s +3 on block then he has b1 & f4 as mids with 2 KB grabs while f43u3 is a KB. Basically focus on patterns of an opponent and react to them. Same for Kotal he’s just nothing like Liu Kang lmmfao. Basically lab the stuff that’s giving you trouble. Overall though, frame data in this game is extremely important. The game is actually frame tight too.

 

[GrimJack]

One indirect hit I just found out today is it is really hard/impossible to convert off juggle f4. So her game after nutpunch is much weaker before the recovery nerf.

 

[ScreamQueen]

Thanks for the help, JDE. I like MK 11 a lot but, like SFV before it, it;s the first game in the whole series that gets me really salty in multiplayer.

 

[Hor_PeT]

Trying to lab the Jax matchup right now. Just feels like I've got no real answer against Jax's Stiff Armed. Even trying F4 on reaction doesn't seem to do it, and just ends with me getting hit with the Krushing Blow.

My only real reaction that seems to be working for me, aside from blocking and eating the AMPed version, is a short hop which causes the AMPed version to whiff, but the timing window on it is really tight.

I think reaction is not a thing for his stagger game only read (so mind game).
F4 is good hitconfirmable full combo punish if you read the stagger properly - and you also can flawless block his full string too for the other side of the read (so punish everything on read).
If you read the full string but you do not punish it (just block) it is still his favor (but better than nothing and flawless block attempt can also be punished if you let the block up too fast).

Easier to say than do though so I apologize for my "I know how to do it" recommendation - I just want to help if I can.

Fortunately the average Jax player has "I am always plus" disrespectful menatility so easier to punish them (fortunately ON PAPER he can be punished even by 13F MID if he mashes after strings but his -4 staggers requires faster mid to punish directly on paper - Online it can be random).
So Cassie has the tools to punish him directly on read.

There is no time to react to the staggers though I believe. If you try to react you will be already late with your fastest move.

Nowadays I mess with Nightwolf but my playstyle is not much different from Cassie. I just play rather Yaas Queen than DS due to no low gun shot lol. Less walk back to full screen and more footsie range.
To me it is more entertaining than Yaas Queen as with Cassie I rather play DS and being on defensive.

 

[JDE]

Thanks for the help, JDE. I like MK 11 a lot but, like SFV before it, it;s the first game in the whole series that gets me really salty online.

I play them both with Sam Sho back to back. Contrary to popular belief I think SFV (mainly through people who like to ride coattails of certain players) is really fun. 4 had more depth but 5 is still fun imo. Just some characters need to be toned down. Not all just like 6. They don’t even need much changed. Characters deserve to be good & you can’t always nerf or tear them down because they’re “good”. You have that in every game. Just tone them down but not hurt them. Season 4 is relatively balanced compared to 2 & 3. I liked season 1. That or they need to figure out how to make vtriggers universally better for everybody. That or change 1 thing from the priority system. Won’t go too much into it. Right now, if you’re not above the line of mid tier, then you’re viable but with problems. The upper mid are strong but not as strong as A+ or S, but they’re very capable of beating them.

Try to think of online as a practice ground for events & general competitive play. Not just get upset. I know a lot can’t travel, but still. You’ll have more fun improving that way. Online will always be inconsistent regardless of what games you play . You have to make the most out of it. MK11 online is way more consistent than SFV though. I can tell you that. Even online events. Once I get to where I want & move to my new spot I won’t be online as much. It’ll be to hang with you guys but I’ll be playing offline more. Lol

And honestly, I don’t feel like Cassie is really hurting. She’s nerfed, but I feel like I’m playing the same with her, just having to develop more mindgames. Erron & Liu are the only ones who I see can challenge her restand follow ups, but I’m gonna test more to see.

 

[sars]

So I been messing around with D4 after glowkick on hit. It covers a lot wake ups except for back roll.

Let’s take garas for example, if you end a combo in glowkick you can instantly d4 and his u2 will wiff and you get a full combo punish, if he does U3 it will wiff and you get a full combo punish, if he forward rolls you have enough time to recover and 111 punish. If he back rolls your back to neutral. If he blocks it your safe. You can also time it to hit meaty if they like to hit buttons on wakeup.

Can’t go wrong with it, covers all options and cannot be punished for it. So far I’ve only tested centron and garas. I feel like it will work vs most the cast.

 

[OfficialCasti]

what do you think her third variation might include?

I doubt they will include moves she already has in the two current variations but kneekappin and bubble burst are the only two moves that let her link combos. Without them all she can do is jail with BF1amp in the corner. The moves that at the moment are left out are the big bubble for dot, the flying kick, the 2 bouncing bullets and that thing that let her control the drone. Excluding the latter because it is a joke move more than anything, they can only go full zoning with it.

Am I missing something?

 

[Vslayer]

what do you think her third variation might include?

I doubt they will include moves she already has in the two current variations but kneekappin and bubble burst are the only two moves that let her link combos. Without them all she can do is jail with BF1amp in the corner. The moves that at the moment are left out are the big bubble for dot, the flying kick, the 2 bouncing bullets and that thing that let her control the drone. Excluding the latter because it is a joke move more than anything, they can only go full zoning with it.

Am I missing something?

I'm thinking it'll be like the bitching bubble, the ricochet shot and something useless cause that's how it be.

 

[sars]

As long as it has flipping out I’ll be ok, by far the best move in the game. So under rated

 

[JDE]

I don't know if this is common knowledge or this was already in the game. but it's news to me. While I was playing Nereus, we noticed her 3rd hit from B243 was flawless blockable on crouch. If you crouch block the 1st 2 hits, then the last hit from the string goes from 0 to +4. They're able to block attack punish the last hit of the string if they crouch (Yes, I said "block attack punish". It's not the end of the world though. It's only from crouching & they have to spend 2 bars. So don't go jumping around like frogs about it please). Plus, it's a hard read. The weird part is when you flawless she's + lol.

Strange.

 

[Vslayer]

Did y'all notice that her F2 will sometimes hit crouch blocking opponents?

 

[JDE]

Did y'all notice that her F2 will sometimes hit crouch blocking opponents?

Yup. But I'm not going to complain . Good stagger button. Sets ups for shimmying & tick throw situations.

 

[sars]

Did y'all notice that her F2 will sometimes hit crouch blocking opponents?
I thought it was always like this. I havnt ever had a problem with it, or I just never noticed.

 

[JDE]

Honestly, I've been testing this over & over again. I have to tell you: unless I'm doing something wrong, I don't see how him or others are getting out of this. Erron in particular. I've been testing ever since folks started mentioning it. This was used with d3 & d4. Neither of them beat her b2. He beats out her F4. Please, correct me if I'm wrong though. I've even had people test this WITH me & they said it's the player.

And here's another setup that I'm working on off of a knockdown (to see if it's worth doing that & opting for KBS). Looking for other options for forward roll besides grabs. Still mixing up the medicine. She has safe jumps against invincible wake ups, but d4 fleshes some out too.

She has safe jumps against invincible wake ups, but d4 fleshes some out too. Most, not all. The following will not work for D4:

• Scorpion
• Jax
• Kollector
• Kabal
• Skarlet
• Dvorah
• Frost
• Shao Kahn

 

[Vslayer]

That meaty on the backroll tho. Did you test it out with other characters or other timing?

 

[JDE]

That meaty on the backroll tho. Did you test it out with other characters or other timing?

Works on everyone what I tested. You just have to get the timing for it after the knockdown on back roll. Wait around 2 to 3 seconds then go into the string, it'll hit as a meaty. If they block/flawless, you're safe period, but if you're perfect with the timing, you'll land it guaranteed.

 

[lionheart21]

Honestly, I've been testing this over & over again. I have to tell you: unless I'm doing something wrong, I don't see how him or others are getting out of this. Erron in particular. I've been testing ever since folks started mentioning it. This was used with d3 & d4. Neither of them beat her b2. He beats out her F4. Please, correct me if I'm wrong though. I've even had people test this WITH me & they said it's the player.

And here's another setup that I'm working on off of a knockdown (to see if it's worth doing that & opting for KBS). Looking for other options for forward roll besides grabs. Still mixing up the medicine. She has safe jumps against invincible wake ups, but d4 fleshes some out too.

She has safe jumps against invincible wake ups, but d4 fleshes some out too. Most, not all. The following will not work for D4:

• Scorpion
• Jax
• Kollector
• Kabal
• Skarlet
• Dvorah
• Frost
• Shao Kahn

Good to keep in mind. I've usually been following up her restand with F4, but good to know that B2 can work as well.

Also funny that I actually did pretty much the same thing in a match last night, except I ended with an Up Glow Kick instead of the AMP Nutkick. That must suck to be on the receiving end of.

 

[JDE]

Good to keep in mind. I've usually been following up her restand with F4, but B2.

Also funny that I actually did pretty much the same thing in a match last night, except I ended with an Up Glow Kick instead of the AMP Nutkick. That must suck to be on the receiving end of.

Hahaha right!? I'm about to play someone so I'll be a little late on the posts, but yeah please let me know if I'm wrong on something. I've been labbing all day.

Edit: the key thing now is can something overtake the forward rolling. I’m going to test more in the morning. Too tired now. Going to test block attacking too.

 

[sars]

Made this video today, I’m back on yaas queen since EVO is over. I notice people like to wake up a lot against yaas queen since they always have meter. You can actually wiff the d4 before the meaty situation and 111 punish u2 but that’s a hard read and can get punished for it. It’ll work for digital soldier but I still think having a +4 or +6 restand is better than than going for this.

 

[Vslayer]

Nice!

 

[JDE]

Made this video today, I’m back on yaas queen since EVO is over. I notice people like to wake up a lot against yaas queen since they always have meter. You can actually wiff the d4 before the meaty situation and 111 punish u2 but that’s a hard read and can get punished for it. It’ll work for digital soldier but I still think having a +4 or +6 restand is better than than going for this.

Good shit dude! I was testing stuff to see if opting for knockdowns to trigger KBS were worth it too since her nutpunch takes 3 hits and B243 is one if the 3rd hit connections. This gave me some ideas.