Match-up Discussion Capt.O2's Lobo MU Chart [Updated 1/19\15)

[Captain Oxygen]

Lobo beats GL 6-4? i mean all GL can really do is zone in the matchup but i woulda guessed 5-5

Yeah GL doesn't wanna deal with Lobo's pressure, especially since Lobo has safe jumps against GL that make Lift whiff and if you know how to punish all B1 followups it can be tough for GL. His zoning is still good, it's just Trait keeps you on your toes. One whiffed rocket or one too many air rockets and its a full punish.

 

[JustPressingButtons]

Lobo beats GL 6-4? i mean all GL can really do is zone in the matchup but i woulda guessed 5-5

Green Lantern with trait gets blown the fuck out by lobo with trait. And lobo will get in if Green Lantern whiffs rockets once. Green Lantern can't do much up close with his limited options vs lobos variety of options. Lobo can anti air you for big damage too. Waking up with Green Lantern is a liability, because of safe jump set ups. The Green Lantern must establish keep away, but make your rocket placements on point.

 

[JustPressingButtons]

And "guessing" match up numbers is just as bad as telling players to play other players to prove a match up.

 

[OG Mannimal]

It might just be the way you wrote it, but the dash trap isn't a 50/50 between pillar-pillar or pillar-trait grab, but pillar-pillar or pillar-soul crush (the trait grab is Event Horizon). With pillar being 0 on block, the 13 frame Soul Crush will catch most forward dashes. I have no idea if Lobo's forward dash avoids the Soul Crush, but if you're testing it with Event Horizon then that move has almost identical start-up to pillar (+- 1 frame, I forget which way) and is not her dash trap.

The MU is probably still shit though (it's one of the few I've almost zero experience with).

Yeah Lobo can dash in between pillar and soul crush, it's pretty dumb. Can also dash under df1 in normal stance. Idk if he can dash inbetween df1 and soul crush but it doesn't seem to matter much anyways, MU is pretty hard for Raven.

 

[Fred Marvel]

Yeah GL doesn't wanna deal with Lobo's pressure, especially since Lobo has safe jumps against GL that make Lift whiff and if you know how to punish all B1 followups it can be tough for GL. His zoning is still good, it's just Trait keeps you on your toes. One whiffed rocket or one too many air rockets and its a full punish.

i see what youre saying, ive never played a good lobo who knew the matchup so they would let me zone but it definitely isnt hard for lobo to get in and GL struggles against pressure

 

[Syknis]

Honestly I dont feel the need to jump in this Match Up, and I was thinking, isn't Water Shield unsafe? I know it has a limit of 3 seconds and you can hit him if he dash cancels it/lets it run out right? And I know Aquaman doesn't need to FTD, but for Lobo it just feels like the Mid Range game is heavily in my favor.

And to twist and kentucky, I seriously do not care how many Nightwings you tell me to fight (since you keep telling me to play a different one everytime I talk to you guys...). I care about what your points on the match up are, actually why you don't think Lobo wins.

I've made my case as to why it's 6-4, multiple others have stated their perspectives on the MU. Lemme hear why you think otherwise...
And also, If nightwing tries to do wingdings are a height he's safe, isn't that low enough for Lobo to do a preemptive J1?


Also I plan on going to Summer Jam, I hope to run sets with Wonder Woman, Bane, Doomsday, Sinestro, MMH, Cyborg and Aqua there to get a better grasp on those matchups.

Wait what lol

 

[Captain Oxygen]

Wait what lol

I forgot but doesn't Water Shield have a time limit on it? I know It has an animation when you stop doing it.

 

[Ra Helios]

@Captain Oxygen
Catwoman and Lobo are both rushdown characters but Lobo has better Damage/Mixups. Trait is more or less free in this matchup, Catdash is full combo punishable. He has to respect her J2, but it doesn't lead to any mixups unless blocked upclose, to which Lobo can antiair easily. Lobo's midrange game is also strong against Catwoman... Also Low Whip is suuuuper negative.



Cat-Woman has more mix ups options then LoBo. Cat-woman can do consistently 47 or more damage mid-screen and in the corner. Lobo overhead wake up is very negative and it can be punish big time with high damage around 46% or more if there is a kick interactable around that can juice up to 56 damage or 61% by using 1 bar and trait.


Cat-woman mix ups shine wayy better in the corner and who ever play with my Cat- woman can back me up.


Catdash full screen is not punishable.

Lobo mid range doesn't effect CatWoman play style.

Catwoman can also b3 punish lobo 3 when the Mu starts.


The only time catwoman should throw out her low whip is from far screen so it won't be punish.


I play Lord decay my clan mate and I played yoaks and how I see it Catwoman beats Lobo 6-4


I also don't go by a person getting beat. I look how the Mu plays and see who has the advantage. That how I determine a Mu. I don't see it.

 

[Captain Oxygen]

@Captain Oxygen
Catwoman and Lobo are both rushdown characters but Lobo has better Damage/Mixups. Trait is more or less free in this matchup, Catdash is full combo punishable. He has to respect her J2, but it doesn't lead to any mixups unless blocked upclose, to which Lobo can antiair easily. Lobo's midrange game is also strong against Catwoman... Also Low Whip is suuuuper negative.



Cat-Woman has more mix ups options then LoBo. Cat-woman can do consistently 47 or more damage mid-screen and in the corner. Lobo overhead wake up is very negative and it can be punish big time with high damage around 46% or more if there is a kick interactable around that can juice up to 56 damage or 61% by using 1 bar and trait.


Cat-woman mix ups shine wayy better in the corner and who ever play with my Cat- woman can back me up.


Catdash full screen is not punishable.

Lobo mid range doesn't effect CatWoman play style.

Catwoman can also b3 punish lobo 3 when the Mu starts.


The only time catwoman should throw out her low whip is from far screen so it won't be punish.


I play Lord decay my clan mate and I played yoaks and how I see it Catwoman beats Lobo 6-4


I also don't go by a person getting beat. I look how the Mu plays and see who had the advantage. That how I determine the Mu.

Catwomans 50/50 are high/low while Lobo has the option to do High/Low/Command grab off most mixup strings. And his full 1 bar combos go past 50%, Hook Charge is advantage when MB'd, it's unsafe when not.

Catwoman being able to B3 when Lobo stand 3's at the start doesn't really change anything?
And if you throw a full MB Catdash from full screen I can easily MB B3 it on reaction.

I've played Astronout's Catwoman offline and I see it as Lobo winning.

 

[Ra Helios]

Catwomans 50/50 are high/low while Lobo has the option to do High/Low/Command grab off most mixup strings. And his full 1 bar combos go past 50%, Hook Charge is advantage when MB'd, it's unsafe when not.

Catwoman being able to B3 when Lobo stand 3's at the start doesn't really change anything?
And if you throw a full MB Catdash from full screen I can easily MB B3 it on reaction.

I've played Astronout's Catwoman offline and I see it as Lobo winning.

Why won't you play 16 bit? He actually main her and more valid for that mu experience.

I can say the same thing with other players that use wonderwoman and don't even main her. You have to play 16bit or me that actually main her and not use her as a second or third pick of choice.


These are catwoman mix ups midscreen

Overhead
Low
High overhead (hkd)
Mid Low

High overhead and the mid low are minds games because you won't know the differents.

She can juice out 46 or more damage easily.

I can also say on reaction I can punish your trait by doing a catdash but you have to think realistically. It won't always happen.


What happens if I did a catdash with no meter burn full screen. So on reaction you will think I would do a mb catdash and you will be wasting your meter.

Catwoman can easily push any character in the corner



Corner wise.

On hard knock she can do 3 cross ups

B2, f1, or a catdash and the rest is the one I mention

Overhead
Low
Mid low
High overhead ( hkd)

Plus you will not figure out when I will cross up or not because I will be dashing each time when I do a string bf1, j1,112 whip( hkd). I will be dashing each time to confuse you if I'm doing a cross up or a mix up.

If we are playing on anything that has in a corner where I can trigger a bomb.

I can do a string bf1, j1,1f2 (hkd)
Dash and trigger a bomb and do a catdash and hit you with another reset.

If you try to wake up I can punish that as well because how negative it will be on recovery.

Hook charge is positive when mb.

Also don't lobo only past 50% when using trait only by 1 bar? So you are taking a risk by by using trait when I can punish it by a mb catdash. Plus with catwoman and lobo. We both don't have to come for each other if one of us has the advantage.

I honestly don't think astronaut is a good representative for the character. I play glass sword a representative for raven and the Mu is 6-4 catwoman favor so as mannimal they both main her. Those characters are not their third choice of pick.

 

[Ra Helios]

Catwomans 50/50 are high/low while Lobo has the option to do High/Low/Command grab off most mixup strings. And his full 1 bar combos go past 50%, Hook Charge is advantage when MB'd, it's unsafe when not.

Catwoman being able to B3 when Lobo stand 3's at the start doesn't really change anything?
And if you throw a full MB Catdash from full screen I can easily MB B3 it on reaction.

I've played Astronout's Catwoman offline and I see it as Lobo winning.

What was the score? How the way you were telling me he made a lot of wrong mistakes in the Mu which I would not do.

 

[fr stack]

@Captain Oxygen would just like to know how standing 3 is useful for grundy , that move is godawful ? or are you talking about lobo's standing 3 and lobo winning the match ?

 

[Yoaks]

Why won't you play 16 bit? He actually main her and more valid for that mu experience.

@GGA 16 Bit say's Lobo beats Catwoman 6-4. Him and @GGA Fill Pops have probably played this countless of times.

 

[Yoaks]

@Captain Oxygen would just like to know how standing 3 is useful for grundy , that move is godawful ? or are you talking about lobo's standing 3 and lobo winning the match ?

I think he mean's standing 2.

 

[Ra Helios]

@GGA 16 Bit say's Lobo beats Catwoman 6-4. Him and @GGA Fill Pops have probably played this countless of times.

Ok. I played lord decay. They are probably playing the Mu wrong and need help with it, it seems.

 

[Captain Oxygen]

@Captain Oxygen would just like to know how standing 3 is useful for grundy , that move is godawful ? or are you talking about lobo's standing 3 and lobo winning the match ?

The move Grundys put out to catch dashes, I'm not sure which normal it's the kick.

 

[fr stack]

The move Grundys put out to catch dashes, I'm not sure which normal it's the kick.

ah yeah dats standing 2

 

[Ra Helios]

@GGA 16 Bit say's Lobo beats Catwoman 6-4. Him and @GGA Fill Pops have probably played this countless of times.

16 bit also said " NightWing vs CatWoman is a 6-4. I played emperor Murk, Forever elite. Master macro. Op twist and gpmoney. The Mu is 5-5. Emperor murk agrees.

16 bit also said " raven vs Catwoman is 5-5. I disagree. Cat-woman beats raven 6-4. I played glass sword and og mannimal. Idk it seems to me it's about more experience

 

[juicepouch]

@Captain Oxygen would just like to know how standing 3 is useful for grundy , that move is godawful ? or are you talking about lobo's standing 3 and lobo winning the match ?

I was going to say... lol the only time I ever do standing 3 is when I'm mashing and it comes out on accident lol

It's a shame, it looks so cool

 

[fr stack]

I was going to say... lol the only time I ever do standing 3 is when I'm mashing and it comes out on accident lol

It's a shame, it looks so cool

or if i try WCC too fast

 

[Captain Oxygen]

Why won't you play 16 bit? He actually main her and more valid for that mu experience.

I can say the same thing with other players that use wonderwoman and don't even main her. You have to play 16bit or me that actually main her and not use her as a second or third pick of choice.


These are catwoman mix ups midscreen

Overhead
Low
High overhead (hkd)
Mid Low

High overhead and the mid low are minds games because you won't know the differents.

She can juice out 46 or more damage easily.

I can also say on reaction I can punish your trait by doing a catdash but you have to think realistically. It won't always happen.


What happens if I did a catdash with no meter burn full screen. So on reaction you will think I would do a mb catdash and you will be wasting your meter.

Catwoman can easily push any character in the corner



Corner wise.

On hard knock she can do 3 cross ups

B2, f1, or a catdash and the rest is the one I mention

Overhead
Low
Mid low
High overhead ( hkd)

Plus you will not figure out when I will cross up or not because I will be dashing each time when I do a string bf1, j1,112 whip( hkd). I will be dashing each time to confuse you if I'm doing a cross up or a mix up.

If we are playing on anything that has in a corner where I can trigger a bomb.

I can do a string bf1, j1,1f2 (hkd)
Dash and trigger a bomb and do a catdash and hit you with another reset.

If you try to wake up I can punish that as well because how negative it will be on recovery.

Hook charge is positive when mb.

Also don't lobo only past 50% when using trait only by 1 bar? So you are taking a risk by by using trait when I can punish it by a mb catdash. Plus with catwoman and lobo. We both don't have to come for each other if one of us has the advantage.

I honestly don't think astronaut is a good representative for the character. I play glass sword a representative for raven and the Mu is 6-4 catwoman favor so as mannimal they both main her. Those characters are not their third choice of pick.

I've said that Trait is generally free for Lobo because Catwoman has to take a risk with Catdash which is baitable and punishable. Fullscreen Catdashes are generally pretty tough reads. And I thought you said that it's not a matter of beating a player with a character to determine a matchup? Regardless Astronout is a very good Catwoman and I've been playing him offline for about a year now.

Lobo does have more damage and mixups than Catwoman I don't think that's really debatable? Lobo's BnB's go past 50% without trait and 1 bar. His 21 string has roughly 5 different mixup options from it alone, his B12 is a low starter thats +4. B2U1 is a Overhead,Low that leads to the same 33/33/33 that 21 has. Even his stand 3 can be canceled in footsies for a mixup between Low hook and Hook Charge.

Corner bomb interactables are really good for gadget characters but likewise Lobo can end his combos with an OTG throwing interactable for a guaranteed 20% on top of his huge damage combos, which is more common than bomb interactables.

 

[Ra Helios]

I've said that Trait is generally free for Lobo because Catwoman has to take a risk with Catdash which is baitable and punishable. Fullscreen Catdashes are generally pretty tough reads. And I thought you said that it's not a matter of beating a player with a character to determine a matchup? Regardless Astronout is a very good Catwoman and I've been playing him offline for about a year now.

Lobo does have more damage and mixups than Catwoman I don't think that's really debatable? Lobo's BnB's go past 50% without trait and 1 bar. His 21 string has roughly 5 different mixup options from it alone, his B12 is a low starter thats +4. B2U1 is a Overhead,Low that leads to the same 33/33/33 that 21 has. Even his stand 3 can be canceled in footsies for a mixup between Low hook and Hook Charge.

Corner bomb interactables are really good for gadget characters but likewise Lobo can end his combos with an OTG throwing interactable for a guaranteed 20% on top of his huge damage combos, which is more common than bomb interactables.

Hmmm. I guess we just have to play. He can be really good but that is not his main. I am a really good with wonderwoman but I can't give you the high level Mu that foxy skeeZer goomba or Filipino man has to offer because these people actually main the character. Wonderwoman is my third choice.

I know about the plus 4. I actually know all his gimmicks and strings by playing a high level main man lobo which is lord decay.


I admit lobo can do more damage but most of his string don't link into combos like catwoman. His string mostly rely on hard knockdowns. With cat woman all her string can leave to ton of damage on a Consistent basis. On the consistently basis is what matters.

cat-woman bomb interactable is more consistent because I can use countless of times in the corner. On the other hand you can only use it 1 time. Also just by do a combo OTG is much damage compare to Martian Manhunter OTG lol.

But we will have to play one day. I would like to here Lord decay thoughts. Did you feel like it was a 6-4 lobo favors


Also yoaks I would like to here this from you to?

 

[JustPressingButtons]

Hmmm. I guess we just have to play. He can be really good but that is not his main. I am a really good with wonderwoman but I can't give you the high level Mu that foxy skeeZer goomba or Filipino man has to offer because these people actually main the character. Wonderwoman is my third choice.

I know about the plus 4. I actually know all his gimmicks and strings by playing a high level main man lobo which is lord decay.


I admit lobo can do more damage but most of his string don't link into combos like catwoman. His string mostly rely on hard knockdowns. With cat woman all her string can leave to ton of damage on a Consistent basis. On the consistently basis is what matters.

cat-woman bomb interactable is more consistent because I can use countless of times in the corner. On the other hand you can only use it 1 time. Also just by do a combo OTG is much damage compare to Martian Manhunter OTG lol.

But we will have to play one day. I would like to here Lord decay thoughts. Did you feel like it was a 6-4 lobo favors


Also yoaks I would like to here this from you to?

@Decay II @Yoaksssss

 

[Decay]

@Decay II @Yoaksssss

It doesn't feel like it's in lobos favor. Lobo does very well against characters he can out footsie and punish well, and unless cat woman does a regular cat dash, there's no big blow up. Her hitbox is very small and sometimes lobos jump 2 misses her when she's ducking and also many times 21 string wiffs the overhead when she ducks (ducking an overhead, nice one nrs)... She gets free jump ins also because standing 3 does not out reach her jump 2. She's got strong damage close up with 50/50s. Nuke shells keep her at bay but she can get in when she sees you reload if you do it outside of a combo. Risks are involved for both characters but more risk involved reloading since she should have no fear jumping in and stuff when he had no trait loaded up. Also, lobos oki is not as strong on a knockdown because you end up fearing her wake-ups. She can easily stuff lobos wake-ups as well. I dunno I don't feel like it's an easy match for lobo

 

[16 Bit]

She cannot jump in free. Standing 3 beats her jump ins if she's close. From the distance he can't AA her jump 2 she doesn't get a mixup. His preemptive jump 1 is also extremely good against her. That beats hers and she has a hard time AAing it herself. Her d+2 flat out won't work against it. He also gets a pump shot as a punish on her jump back shenanigans.

She cannot duck his jump 2 if he delays it slightly. It's actually one of the better jump attacks at blowing up her low hitbox.

Her wakeups without trait are as bad as his. They're all stuffable. Even with trait they're super punishable with his standard setups like his neutral jump 2 stuff beats all her wakeups. The post hook charge guessing game is good for him too.