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Match-up Discussion Capt.O2's Lobo MU Chart [Updated 1/19\15)

Ra Helios

Omnipotent God-like Selina Kyle Player
What catwoman players you played that makes this mu a 6-4 lobo favor?

Im going to keep pressing on this topic until Im blue in the face!!!


Don't you live in maryland?
 

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
Premium Supporter
What catwoman players you played that makes this mu a 6-4 lobo favor?

Im going to keep pressing on this topic until Im blue in the face!!!


Don't you live in maryland?
What do you think the matchup is? Have any specifics as to why?
 

juicepouch

blink-182 enthusiast
What catwoman players you played that makes this mu a 6-4 lobo favor?

Im going to keep pressing on this topic until Im blue in the face!!!


Don't you live in maryland?
Did we not all get it drilled into our heads in the beginning of this thread that "who have you played?" is irrelevant when discussing matchup numbers? It's about the tools
 

Ra Helios

Omnipotent God-like Selina Kyle Player
Im using mobile so I having some issues quoting people.


@juicepouch

Lobo tools aren't even enough to make the match up 6-4

Oxygen played astronaut, Not even a good enough candidate for mu knowledge.

Play me oxygen!!! Do you live in Maryland? We can play offline so you don't have to use the excuse what some tournament players always say when they play online warriors " I lost because it was online. No big deal"

Chaosphere If you read oxygen recent post I already explain why this mu is a 6-4 Catwoman favor. If he said its a 5-5 then I wouldnt have a problem with it.

I just want to play this man offline
 

Captain Oxygen

The end of one combo is the beginning of another
  1. 3 7 youre having a giggle mate
Very convincing well thought out argument against my points.
I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue but you've convinced me...

You can't get any actualy matchup discussion on this forum, only Number/Scalps shoved in your face.
 

Captain Oxygen

The end of one combo is the beginning of another
Im using mobile so I having some issues quoting people.


@juicepouch

Lobo tools aren't even enough to make the match up 6-4

Oxygen played astronaut, Not even a good enough candidate for mu knowledge.

Play me oxygen!!! Do you live in Maryland? We can play offline so you don't have to use the excuse what some tournament players always say when they play online warriors " I lost because it was online. No big deal"

Chaosphere If you read oxygen recent post I already explain why this mu is a 6-4 Catwoman favor. If he said its a 5-5 then I wouldnt have a problem with it.

I just want to play this man offline
Okay
1.) Astronout is good with Catwoman.

2.) Not gonna tell you who I've played in the matchup because even If the catwoman player I played won EVO 20 years in a row, It wouldn't matter to you.

3.) ...I've been posting up Offline locals and scenes in the Maryland-Virginia area trying to get people to come out to CFAS, Xanadu, Coin Up, etc for over a year now and If for some reason you've missed out on ALL of them I don't know what to tell you. For the past few months I've taken a 1 1/2 hour ride to go to an offline spot just to play 2 or 3 guys in Injustice, Hell; sometimes I even take a 3 1/2 hour ride just to play Mr Aquaman's scene in a 10 man tournament.
And from RelaxedState has told me you apparently live really close, so If you actually EVER wanted to play online, I should've seen you sometime within the past 2 years... No excuses. I've been to 6 Majors and PLENTY of offline scenes and I can't even drive.

4.) And what baffles me after all this time, is that you don't understand the fact that. Even if you beat me offline, even if the score is like 30 - 0 in your favor. That changes absolutely NOTHING about the matchup whatsoever. Matchups are about CHARACTERS TOOLS and HOW THEY INTERACT WITH EACH OTHER. You bodying me would change NOTHING about each characters tools. If you want to argue a matchup actually know what your talking about because "Catwoman having more damage & oki" is bullshit.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Premium Supporter
[Updated 1/19/15]

Bored, gonna update this cause making Mu charts is fun.

These are all based off my experiences playing people at events, I don't think I've played IGAU online in a year.

[Aquaman 6-4] (Could be even)
Aquaman's poor wakeup game is a really good plus for Lobo, obviously traited nuke shells punish FTD. Lobo gets a 50/50 off of a blocked Trident Rush so while eating 17% chip isn't fun you at least get the opportunity to possibly take off 35%+. Aquaman obviously wins the footsies war (like he does against every character), but because of things like Stand 3 and Low Hook it's not a huge issue.

[Ares 5-5] (Could be 6-4 Lobo)
Ares great wakeup hurts Lobo's knockdown game, but aside from occasional zoning both characters are getting their damage off of mixing each other up. Lobo has better footsies than Ares but it's not like it's superman. Ares does a lot of damage (especially meterless damage) but has trouble anti-airing Lobos J1.

[Bane 4-6]
The footsies game is pretty tough for Lobo against Bane. It's really helpful that Bane has to respect hook charge because he can't punish it in the midrange. When Lobo is knocked down it could all end there, and Lobo's hilarious joke of a backdash makes it impossible to escape pressure.

[Batgirl 4-6]
Batgirls wakeups make it hard to pressure her on knockdown, much more often than not I find myself just letting her get up for free.

[Batman 4-6] (Could be even)
Batman's zoning and mid range control is really good, if he gets a life lead it's tough to get in as Lobo without taking unsafe risks. And since Batman has trait at the start of the round he has control immediately. Sitting in the midrange, checking Lobo's dashes and anti-airing him make it really hard to get in. Obviously Lobo's knockdown game against Batman is devastating. But I don't wanna say the matchup is even based solely on the knockdown game. Also it's true that Batman has no real mixups up close, but his upclose pressure is just enough to irritate the Lobo player and keep him out more.

[Black Adam 4-6]
Black Adam outfootsies Lobo and it's really hard to make up a lifelead. Black Adams annoying Jump arc makes dealing with Jump backs almost impossible. Black Adams wakeups make it really hard to mix him up on knockdown.

[Catwoman 6-4]
Lobo outfootsies Catwoman, has more damage, has better mixups than Catwoman. The knockdown game is good for both characters, but when Catwoman has no trait Lobo gets mixups for free without risk.

[Cyborg ?-?]
No Clue, I haven't ran this matchup enough to even be able to slap a number on it.

[Doomsday 4-6]
Lobo gets outfootsied and has trouble Antiairing Splash, while DD's AA grab makes it really easy to antiair Lobo. Lobo's backdash is also super barfy, often times I get caught by normals when I try to backdash after blocking MB shoulder. Lobo's knockdown game is good against Doomsday, but the main thing that makes me feel this MU is in DD's favor is that Lobo has no real good answers for trait, once again bad backdash and jump arc.

[Deathstroke 5-5]
Nothing in this matchup would make me think either has the advantage, DS's F3 is great for pressuring Lobo on wakeup since that means I have to make a read with wakeup AA grab since F3 stuffs hook charge by making the first hit whiff. Conversely Lobo gets much more damage off his right reads and mixups than Deathstroke.

[Flash 3-7] (Could be 4-6, but I can't see 5-5)
If fighting games are about ranges and options, Flash almost always has better options at his disposal. Flash outfootsies Lobo and has an easy time antiairing his floaty jump with his D2 that shrinks his hitbox to the floor, while Lobo's slow antiairs have trouble antiairing Flash's quick jump. Flash has better mixups and has an easier time getting his big damage than Lobo (he also does more damage than Lobo???)
Probably the biggest thing in this MU I hate is comparing the 2 knockdown games, Flash has an overabundance of great wakeups he can use which all have to be beaten out in a different way. While he can just do a delayed F3 on Lobo's wakeup and that'll beat out hook charge, meaning I have to make a read with AA grab, which is a really risky unrewarding read.

[Green Arrow 6-4]
Lobo heavily outdamages Green Arrow its hilarious, Lobo has an easy time playing footsies with Arrow, Arrow has solid wakeups, but when Lobo does guess right it's a hell of a lot more damage than Green Arrow gets off a right read. Because of Lobos dash and nuke shells, zoning Lobo out with Arrow is really tough to do.

[Green Lantern 6-4] (Could be even)
Nuke Shells turn what would be a disadvantageous matchup into a pretty good once. Nuke shells help keep Lantern in check and Lobo can get free trait loads from a lot of places. Lanterns wakeup isn't amazing, in the midrange Hook Charge and Low hook are good tools against GL. On the flipside GL can antiair Lobo pretty well with his D2/Lift. And on knockdown GL's F3 will stuff Hook Charge.

[Grundy 3-7] (Could be worse???)
this matchup is kinda sucky and not fun.
Almost every upside to Lobo as a character you can think of gets nullified by Grundy's great wakeup, and armor. Lobo has to eat mixups all day, he has no good grab immune strings so Grundy just sorta bodies Lobo. It also sucks that Grundy kills Lobo on 1 knockdown sort of Like Bane.

[Harley Quinn 5-5] (Could be 6-4)
Harleys footsies are alright vs Lobo. While Harley has trouble antiairing Lobo's J1, Lobo has trouble antiairing Harley. She can't get crazy with Zoning because of Lobo's nuke shells, but it's also tough to pressure Harley on knockdown because her wakeup is really good.

[Hawkgirl 5-5] (Could be 4-6)
Hawkgirls pressure and wakeup game are good against Lobo, Lobo has to make some right reads to start his pressure up. Hawkgirl can't really zone, and nuke shells do help a lot in the matchup. Both characters want each other in the corner because Hawkgirls wakeup in the corner is booty, and Hawkgirls corner damage is silly.

[Joker 6-4]
Jokers wakeup is really bad, like sheesh. The footsies game is probably in Lobo's favor, Joker has great jump normals but Lobo has J1. Joker has great setups in the corner and off of a BGB but aside from that everything is in Lobo's favor.

[Killer Frost 5-5]
This is a weird matchup to put a number on. It's hard to pressure frost on wakeup and parry is a good tool. But Lobo outdamage's Frost and has better air control, which kinda matters for frost because her footsies are bad. Lobo does have to deal with the post slide guessing game but so does everyone else.

[Lex Luthor 4-6] (could be even)
Lex has poor footsies and bad wakeup, which is great for Lobo. But once Lex get's started it's really hard for Lobo to do anything about his trait and setups. If Lex has a lifelead it's tough to really force a comeback like you can against other characters.

[MMH 4-6]
MMH outfootsies Lobo and in general just has a lot of control in this matchup, Lobo has to make reads which aren't in his favor. MMH has better wakeup than Lobo and can keep him out pretty well.

[Raven 6-4]
Lobo has some silly MU specific things vs Raven. He's the only character that can dash inbetween Pillar -> Soul Crush. And Nuke Shells punish soul crush too. The knockdown game against Raven is probably the best in the game for Lobo, she doesn't have any invincible wakeups. It can be hard to Antiair raven's jump attacks though so theres that.

[Scorpion 7-3]
Scorpion is the worst character in the game.
Lobo punishes a wrong guess on the vortex for 50%+ while Scorpion gets less damage than MB Pumpshot on a right guess.

[Shazam 6-4] (could be even)
While Shazam has great wakeup and has good mixups when Lobo is knocked down. He gets heavily outfootsied. While it can be tough to comeback on a shazam who has the lifelead, its even tougher for Shazam to comeback on Lobo who has the lifelead. Shazams mixups are also unsafe, which sucks.

[Sinestro 5-5] (could be 4-6)
When sinestro is knocked down it's pretty awesome, but in terms of everything else in the matchup it's probably in sinestros favor. Sinestro outfootsies Lobo and can D2 his Jump in's with ease. Even with a life lead Lobo has to get in on Sinestro because you can't let Sinestro trait up. Sinestro's trait is good, doing all the good things his trait does.

[Superman 3-7] (could be 4-6, probably not 5-5)
Supermans zoning is really good and Heavily outfootsies Lobo, While Lobo's forward dash is good for getting past zoning, Superman's lasers are really good against Lobo. It's also super tough to pressure Superman on knockdown because his wakeup game is amazing. If Superman has the lifelead (which he usually does) I have to make some Tough reads. Superman is pretty much in control for the whole matchup.

[Wonder Woman 5-5] (might be different)
While I haven't played a high level Wonder Woman in a long time, the knockdown game is good for Lobo and the footsies don't heavily favor either character. She has a really good D2 while Lobo can have trouble antiairing Wonderwoman's J3.

[Zatanna ?-?]
I have never played this matchup at a high level offline.
Can't really say anything about how either's characters tools interact with each other, I know Zatanna has great wakeup and okay zoning but bad footsies.

[Zod 4-6] (could be 5-5)
Zod's zoning is really good, so is his trait. Lobo sort of has to rush his way in sometimes because he doesn't want Zod to get trait charged. Zod also really hurts, not just the 40% his combos do, but because he's building more trait OR activating trait at the end of the combo. Lobo's forward dash is good and he does outfootsie zod. Zod's wakeup is also booty so for Lobo getting a knockdown can mean everything.

If you wanna have actual decent matchup discussion go ahead. Don't ask me "who i've played" or call me an "idiot scrub" because I haven't played someone. I'm not here to shove Scalps in people's faces. I'm here to talk about matchups and how characters tools do against other characters tools.
WTF dude...no Nightwing?
 

Ra Helios

Omnipotent God-like Selina Kyle Player
(1.) @Pnut

Oxygen been saying this since I was playing Injustice.

(2.) @Captain Oxygen
DrDowork is a good wonderwoman player but I don't go to him to figure out what the wonderwoman vs Catwoman mu is.
I don't need someone good in order for me to know what the mu is. I need someone who is the best with the character and Astronaut is not one of them for Catwoman

(3.) Here the thing Oxygen. If the mu is in your favor and I beat you 50 - 0. That should tell you the mu is not in your advantage. It could be a even mu or it could be in Catwoman Favor period. Is it because I'm Outplaying you or its in Catwoman Favor? These are the options if I beat you 50-0.

If the tools make up the mu and how they interact with each other then I should not be beating you 50-0. Obviously whats on paper is WRONG!!!! and what players you played with are not good enough for the mu.

(4.)A catwoman player can win first to 2 at evo 20 times in a row. Usually in Tournaments there are players that have trouble in mu but they sometimes never play the people in their pools.

For me I know them all except for Ares. I need more time with him. But I don't play the game so that is irrelevant.

(5.) Tag me If there any Maryland local Tournaments.
 

Mr Aquaman

Tourny Master
Astronout has beaten KDZ's superman prepatch just months after his evo win, then again months later in another MM pretty free with CW

(he beat a ton of people in money matches that day for free, I forgot a few of the others but they were names you would probably get freed up by)

Astronout has beaten one of the Injustice gods in Jupiter IN TOURNAMENT 3/5, after being down.

Astronout didn't even lab the character after the first few months of the game, and still did this. Godlike.

His mains are KF and Batgirl, and still has the second best offline CW results and rep wise. (i will take arguments cause I actually don't know, krayzie maybe? nikolas is great as well. Others with great offline results?)

so

Lobo tools aren't even enough to make the match up 6-4

Oxygen played astronaut, Not even a good enough candidate for mu knowledge.


you need to accomplish more than him to blow him up sir

sidenote, I see what you did with ares oxy
 

Ra Helios

Omnipotent God-like Selina Kyle Player
@Mr Aquaman

Where do you go to get these gifs from?

I would say Krayzie offline because more results.

I was talking about in a set to see what the mu is with catwoman and lobo.

What Im saying is let me face him and see because I know the mu perfectly and I disagree. When a person disagree with my mu. I Play them. No question ask. " you have online? What console you have" lets play!!"
 

C88 Zombieekiler

Up and coming sub zero
Very convincing well thought out argument against my points.
I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue but you've convinced me...

You can't get any actualy matchup discussion on this forum, only Number/Scalps shoved in your face.
Ok he slightly out damages him lobo gets like 45-48 with one meter trait lobo can get the same damage with two but then he will be at a constant meter disadvantage which is bad in clash situations both have good mixups I wouldnt say flashes are bettter because if you get good at the mu you can react and d1 because the shit is gdlk and lobo can mix in rick throws most wus j1 beats but lightning uppercut beats jumps although bait this bye bye 40+per ent f3 beats most wus except ag which is great. Id say no morr than 6 4 bro:p
 

Captain Oxygen

The end of one combo is the beginning of another
I thought you said it was 3-7? What changed
Honestly all of the same problems in the matchup are still there, It could be either 6-4 or 3-7 but the matchup probably isn't fleshed out offline enough.

Either way if I put 6-4 or 7-3 it's still tough