Bottom 5 Character Project

[Slips]

Yo Slips I started some tests and his jip is ridic. Take Scorpion and go full close range, make 1 regular jump back, a back dash.

LOOK AT THE DISTANCE, Scorp can jip from that distance and it beats d1's. Timing is strict to beat the d1 but it does, and the jip nails an Ermac style hitbox (it's who I was testing it against).

That is some mean range my friend!

Me and 16 Bit did some testing last night. Had him try to anti-air Kit's jp with d4 and it would lose or Mileena's d4 would just dodge the jp. Rarely it would win, but possible.

Then tried the same with Scorp and her d4 either would dodge his jp or the jp would win. Rarely did it lose.

So there appears to be a slight difference in Scorp's jp. Its marginal, but its there.

 

[Slips]

How is Ermac put at 21? Just because some retards put him bottom 5?
I don't understand why we would take the opinions of just anybody without them explaining why and putting it up for argument. Ermac has some of the best kombos in the game, good rushdown, great specials, awesome zoning, argueably the best punisher. Who else hits mileena's teleport with mid-30% punishment? I get Sub Zero after running sets all day with my friends and online with dudes like TwoDays and yeah... Sub Zero has to work. Ermac though is a beast, his match up chart is great. Nothing is un winnable. I just seriously do not understand how he is below Skarlet, Rain, Liu Kang, Cage, Reptile, etc.

My brain hurts.

I agree Ermac is really good. Its pretty silly people don't see it.

 

[salvificblood]

The same people who are putting Sub-Zero in the bottom 5 are also claiming Sindel is nowehere near bottom 5. I am not bashing Sindel, since I don't think there's a truly bad character in the game, but Sub-Zero is more solid than Sindel. I mean, come on, guys, you cannot tell me that a character with the fastest special in the game, really solid pokes (his pokes are pretty much as good as Smoke's and I consider Smoke to be the best "poker" in the game), and a 9 frame 2 which leads to the bog standard punish of 30% for even some of the tighter punishment windows in the game, is bottom 5.

When people were saying Sub-Zero is top 3 after the latest patch, I was saying that they're crazy, and I am going to go ahead and say you're crazy if you rate Sub as bottom 5, too. He's pretty damn good, really. You can't be bottom 5 if you're only losing matchups are: Kung Lao, Raiden, Kitana, Freddy, Skarlett, Sektor and Cyrax. 7 bad matchups is hardly terrible and which ones does he get blown up in? The Kung Lao matchup...

The only problem for sub-Zero is his more difficult matchups are against top tier characters so his bad matchups get more exposure. Maybe we should all agree that he is bottom 5, though, so NRS can buff him like they did with Jax, who was apparently always pretty solid.

I don't really think there is a bottom 5 in this game but if I absolutely had to give you a bottom 5 it would be (in no particular order):

Jade
Sheeva
Sindel
Stryker
Kano

But don't underestimate any of them. They're all capable of tearing it up. At least I think so.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

That's true THTB. Ryu and Guile in SF are great characters because they have amazing footsies + good zoning tools.

If Baraka had better zoning tools then he would be top or near top imo.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I love people defending bottom 5

come on there has to be someone there, would u like it better if it were lao, jax, cyrax?

 

[PimpUigi]

How is Ermac put at 21? Just because some retards put him bottom 5?
I don't understand why anybody can say someone sucks besides metioning a character like Jade or Stryker without them explaining why and putting it up for argument. Ermac has some of the best kombos in the game, good rushdown, great specials, awesome zoning, argueably the best punisher. Who else hits mileena's teleport with mid-30% punishment? I get Sub Zero after running sets all day with my friends and online with dudes like TwoDays and yeah... Sub Zero has to work. Ermac though is a beast, his match up chart is great. Nothing is un winnable. I just seriously do not understand how he is below Skarlet, Rain, Liu Kang, Cage, Reptile, etc.

My brain hurts.

It's not like Ermac is on my bottom five, but come on. Ermac is certainly below Rain, Liu Kang, Cage, and Reptile.
Skarlet is his little sister. That's just the order people have voted in. Nothing to take seriously TBH.

And 30% punish on the teleport/roll??
He punishes both with 39% combos. Jump Kick~Teleport Punch, Jump Kick~Teleport Punch, D1~TKS, Dash B12F1 Dash TKP

Even though Ermac deals some of the very best damage in the game, and has fair pressure with 312, for some reason he just feels light compared to Reptile, Scorpion, and to a lesser extent Rain (who all have better pressure, and armor).
Maybe he could move up if he makes a comeback in tournaments.

 

[Z-911-Z]

Things seriously changed for Ermac since day one. For a month he was considered top tier and was the hottest thing online since sliced bread. Then everyone figured him out and Kung Lao entered the picture.

 

[Enenra]

It's not like Ermac is on my bottom five, but come on. Ermac is certainly below Rain, Liu Kang, Cage, and Reptile.
Skarlet is his little sister. That's just the order people have voted in. Nothing to take seriously TBH.

And 30% punish on the teleport/roll??
He punishes both with 39% combos. Jump Kick~Teleport Punch, Jump Kick~Teleport Punch, D1~TKS, Dash B12F1 Dash TKP

Even though Ermac deals some of the very best damage in the game, and has fair pressure with 312, for some reason he just feels light compared to Reptile, Scorpion, and to a lesser extent Rain (who all have better pressure, and armor).
Maybe he could move up if he makes a comeback in tournaments.

Challenge accepted.

I do say though, he really doesn't feel light to me compared to Reptile and Rain, and I main Rain and have mained Reptile. Scorpion is just a baller, hands down, so I still rank him above Ermac. I say Ermac is above Liu, Cage, Sektor, and there on. Characters like JC and LK want in, he wants them out. At the same time, they screw up and he punishes them far more than they do to him. If he had armor he'd be OMGWTF, but as it is he doesn't and he is still an awesome character. I really do think he is top 16 at least, he has no atrocious match ups unlike Freddy who is top 10 and gets crapped on by Mileena. He really feels like what he is, a monster combination of fighters.

 

[salvificblood]

I love people defending bottom 5

come on there has to be someone there, would u like it better if it were lao, jax, cyrax?

There are a lot of characters very close together in this game, though. It's very difficult to nail down a bottom 5 without a definitive matchup chart. There's no way Sub would be in the bottom 5 if such a matchup chart existed, Pig.

I am noticing a theme with this, however. Characters who were seen as arguably top 3 when the game first came out: Sub-Zero, Ermac, etc, are now being listed as bottom of the list because the game changed and people stopped fearing them so much. While it's true both characters have fallen off their previous high tier placings, they're still very solid characters. People are overreacting, but it's all individual preference and bandwagons without a matchup chart, in my opinion.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

There are a lot of characters very close together in this game, though. It's very difficult to nail down a bottom 5 without a definitive matchup chart. There's no way Sub would be in the bottom 5 if such a matchup chart existed, Pig.

I am noticing a theme with this, however. Characters who were seen as arguably top 3 when the game first came out: Sub-Zero, Ermac, etc, are now being listed as bottom of the list because the game changed and people stopped fearing them so much. While it's true both characters have fallen off their previous high tier placings, they're still very solid characters. People are overreacting, but it's all individual preference and bandwagons without a matchup chart, in my opinion.

I've seen all sub has to offer and I have no fear

I've seen what sindel will become and it's frightening

 

[salvificblood]

I've seen all sub has to offer and I have no fear

I've seen what sindel will become and it's frightening

So I can quote you on it, then?

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

There are a lot of characters very close together in this game, though. It's very difficult to nail down a bottom 5 without a definitive matchup chart. There's no way Sub would be in the bottom 5 if such a matchup chart existed, Pig.

I am noticing a theme with this, however. Characters who were seen as arguably top 3 when the game first came out: Sub-Zero, Ermac, etc, are now being listed as bottom of the list because the game changed and people stopped fearing them so much. While it's true both characters have fallen off their previous high tier placings, they're still very solid characters. People are overreacting, but it's all individual preference and bandwagons without a matchup chart, in my opinion.

Of course that's what's happening. I mean look at KL's placing.... 8? NO WAY.

He's easily top 5 or even top 3. No bad match-ups... mix-ups... speed. A move that freaking hits everything other than a projectile!!

 

[Konqrr]

Of course that's what's happening. I mean look at KL's placing.... 8? NO WAY.

He's easily top 5 or even top 3. No bad match-ups... mix-ups... speed. A move that freaking hits everything other than a projectile!!

Lao has a bad matchup vs kitana. Always has, always will.

 

[Kidigital]

GOD DAMNIT can Baraka get a break? He is NOT that bad.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

So I can quote you on it, then?

please do

 

[BEENEEWEENEES]

NPO;

stryker
jade
sub
sheeva
baraka

 

[Big Pampering]

I've seen all sub has to offer and I have no fear

I've seen what sindel will become and it's frightening

sub has been discovered for a 90% already, they may be some new techs but I really think thats all to the character, its not like he has a lot of special moves that are useful either, clone, slide and freeze...

 

[PimpUigi]

He had that nice EX ground freeze setup. And regular ground freeze was useful in tag matches.
But NRS took all that out for some unknown reason.

You used to have to fear the puddle. Now you laugh at it.
You can't even cancel into the ground freeze from most of his strings...

 

[scarsunseen]

Wow. I can't believe people are saying Sub-Zero and CSZ are bottom 5. They are two of my best!

 

[salvificblood]

please do

OK, Sindel is actually really annoying, lol, and she's a harder matchup for Sub than most of the matchups that commonly get listed for him.

Out of interest, Pig, what do you think it would take for Sub-Zero to become more of a threat to the rest of the roster again?

 

[Enenra]

OK, Sindel is actually really annoying, lol, and she's a harder matchup for Sub than most of the matchups that commonly get listed for him.

Out of interest, Pig, what do you think it would take for Sub-Zero to become more of a threat to the rest of the roster again?

You didn't ask me, but Dark_Rob and I talked and damage scaling taken off of freeze and slide going under duckable projectiles would make him pretty freaking ridiculous.

You want gravy with your mashed potatoes? Less start up frames on regular freeze so it doesn't get stuffed when Kitana farts. Boom top 5.

 

[DanCock]

OK, Sindel is actually really annoying, lol, and she's a harder matchup for Sub than most of the matchups that commonly get listed for him.

Out of interest, Pig, what do you think it would take for Sub-Zero to become more of a threat to the rest of the roster again?

well yea thats one of her good match ups..

me as a sindel scrub/weak player i enjoy facing sheeva, stryker, subzero, sindel & baraka. so yea sindel can be annoying for sub players..

 

[salvificblood]

You didn't ask me, but Dark_Rob and I talked and damage scaling taken off of freeze and slide going under duckable projectiles would make him pretty freaking ridiculous.

You want gravy with your mashed potatoes? Less start up frames on regular freeze so it doesn't get stuffed when Kitana farts. Boom top 5.

I think if Sub received some of those things, Cyber Sub would have to receive them, too. Cyber Sub's iceball is even worse than Sub's.

 

[Enenra]

I think if Sub received some of those things, Cyber Sub would have to receive them, too. Cyber Sub's iceball is even worse than Sub's.

Cyber Sub is a joke told by NRS. I really don't care about him.

 

[DanCock]

I think if Sub received some of those things, Cyber Sub would have to receive them, too. Cyber Sub's iceball is even worse than Sub's.

i disagree, as a sindel scrub/weak player i cant just spit out fireballs like crazy, csz freeze is so slow that i have to actually time my fireballs or itll almost always trade hits.. vs sub i can throw out a fireball and it tends to be pass me. its a fucking weird ice ball that CSZ has.. but im also still learning the match up so i cant say for sure..