Blue Beetle General Discussion Thread

[Invincible Salads]

lol, I just tested it in practice and yeah, Darksied really has to hold that shit.

j1 doesn't jail into any high's I believe so you can d1 the chain there.

I think if you d1 him during the flight it's pretty unreliably. The d1 was whiffing if I did it perfectly in the blockstun buffer window, and was hitting if I was late a couple of frames.

Best option I suppose is d1 check to beat high's after j1 to stop the loop.

i thought it was a block infinite at first, so dumb, i still say doing d1 is probably the best option. either that or pushblock, but man the fact that darkseid has to hold that is just pure cancer. kinda wish they'd make it easier to escape.

 

[Invincible Salads]

can other characters just backdash?

 

[pfiidud3]

Are yall saying dseid cant d2 between 13fc and d2?

If so, he might MIGHT be able to d1 and low profile the 1 in the string 13fc

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Yeah! Start using your 21 string because it's +2 and then standing 3 is 8 frames so it becomes 6 frames, which you can hit confirm with df1 if they disresepct it. Or you can d1 check them to continue pressure. If you get a d1 on block you can cancel it into MB db2 which is also +2 and continue the cycle, while building meter to recycle it.

I copied the reply over to this thread so i dont keep derailing the MU thread, lol.

Yeah, I need to really work on getting 21 into my pressure. Alot of Beetle's stuff seems reasonable to hit confirm too, Ive been able to confirm the j2 after 13fc pretty well, but my hands and brain arent ready to really *do* anything with it, lol. I'm usually just excited that I did a thing, so I just 13fcj2x3 when it ends on its own, lol.

Hell, I just realized I can do df1 out of trait, and hit trait during to end in blade stance, lol.

 

[AkioOf100]

I copied the reply over to this thread so i dont keep derailing the MU thread, lol.

Yeah, I need to really work on getting 21 into my pressure. Alot of Beetle's stuff seems reasonable to hit confirm too, Ive been able to confirm the j2 after 13fc pretty well, but my hands and brain arent ready to really *do* anything with it, lol. I'm usually just excited that I did a thing, so I just 13fcj2x3 when it ends on its own, lol.

Hell, I just realized I can do df1 out of trait, and hit trait during to end in blade stance, lol.

xD Yeah! A lot of his stuff is pretty easy to hit confirm in the corner. In mid-screen .. it's a diff story though. I mean once you get the buttons down it becomes easier.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

xD Yeah! A lot of his stuff is pretty easy to hit confirm in the corner. In mid-screen .. it's a diff story though. I mean once you get the buttons down it becomes easier.

yeah.

Ya know a weird issue I have in this game? Comboing jump normals properly. It drives me crazy. I dunno if you've ever played SF but the way jump normals into buttons work is TOTALLY different. In INj you input more or less as one string but my damn mind refuses to accept that for some reason. It just TRIES SO HARD to hitconfirm and than go into buttons, which is killing me midscreen because I'm missing so many j2x111's.

Ive also realized immediately that when you play Beetle (at least IMO) you are tied to your meter in ways I'm not used to. I leave a lot of damage and positioning on the table because I'm not paying proper attention and I'll hit 111 and if I have two bars, I bounce cancel, if I have none, I shield bash and if I have one (or dont want to spend both bars) I.. shield bash? lol. I have to work on my decision making and grind the df1mb stuff.

I know, I know, i say this about a lot of characters, but I REALLY like Beetle and Im having a ton of fun with him so far. Now that Im playing the game more, and against a wider range of players/characters Its becoming easier to understand what I like in theory, vs what I like in practice. Like, in a vacuum, I LOVE Canary, she was my first main, but in practice, I just dont enjoy playing her that much in a lot of MUs. Where-as characters like Beetle, SG, Hood (in short sets, he bores me for some reason after a handful of matches), Batman, I enjoy USING. Beetle just feels like no matter what someone is doing, or where I am on the screen, I have things to do, strong things that arent just reactionary/"subservient" decisions, but ones that can control or take control.

I like that Beetle has a very basic gameplan that can work on a simple level, so a shit player like me that's new to the character and honestly, new to the game (speaking on a broad scale, been around a while, but barely playing and playing one person and one or two characters) has a foundation that's solid that I can work from. I can start framing my own walls and setting it all up, bit by bit. I can stick to just playing a footsie game and zoning with super basic 111 launch 111 ender combos to get some damage and keep myself relevant while I add in al the extra shit.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

So, is there a trick to these restands? Cause whenever I b1xbf2 it just knocks them down, if I time it right the bf2 whiffs and I get the restand but that doesnt seem right..

Ok, I think I'm getting it. The b1 has to connect when they're pretty damn high up right? So if I dont hit the f3 after the f23 really early, it falls apart... I think anyway.

 

[AkioOf100]

So, is there a trick to these restands? Cause whenever I b1xbf2 it just knocks them down, if I time it right the bf2 whiffs and I get the restand but that doesnt seem right..

Ok, I think I'm getting it. The b1 has to connect when they're pretty damn high up right? So if I dont hit the f3 after the f23 really early, it falls apart... I think anyway.

It's hurtbox dependent on when you do the b1. Big characters you can do the b1 into bf2 at any time. Smaller characters require a bit of a delay because they hit the ground for the restand later.

 

[pfiidud3]

I wouldnt bother b1 bf2 (which can be input b1f2). You have to cut your combo short just so the gravity scaling doesnt ruin the restand. There are better combos that just use b1 to end +. The only time i do that, im actualy letting the combo get ended by b1. And mb the shot for +2 frame trap in the corner.

As far as 111 follow ups

No bar- bf2 for frame trap
1 bar - df1mb combo (such as 3 bf2 f23 shield. OR, the same cu i mention below also worka)
2 bars - db mb combo (i do ji 3 step 111 bf2 insta fly cancel dash in. Its a cross up that they can tech roll out of. But if they dont its huge dmg into a reset)

As far as jump ins, you have to hit the first follow up normal while still in the air. So ji 22 (on the ground 1) this will get you the ji, followed up by 21. Then you can hitconfirm/block confirm into df1mb or d1shield. I hope this helps, sometimes knowin what to do and doing it are much diferent things. But i find it MUCH easier to hitconfirm off the standing 21. Or, to just ji2fc falling2, and only hitconfirm off the first airial hit (the 2nd will combo if the first hit)

 

[EntropicByDesign]

I wouldnt bother b1 bf2 (which can be input b1f2). You have to cut your combo short just so the gravity scaling doesnt ruin the restand. There are better combos that just use b1 to end +. The only time i do that, im actualy letting the combo get ended by b1. And mb the shot for +2 frame trap in the corner.

As far as 111 follow ups

No bar- bf2 for frame trap
1 bar - df1mb combo (such as 3 bf2 f23 shield. OR, the same cu i mention below also worka)
2 bars - db mb combo (i do ji 3 step 111 bf2 insta fly cancel dash in. Its a cross up that they can tech roll out of. But if they dont its huge dmg into a reset)

As far as jump ins, you have to hit the first follow up normal while still in the air. So ji 22 (on the ground 1) this will get you the ji, followed up by 21. Then you can hitconfirm/block confirm into df1mb or d1shield. I hope this helps, sometimes knowin what to do and doing it are much diferent things. But i find it MUCH easier to hitconfirm off the standing 21. Or, to just ji2fc falling2, and only hitconfirm off the first airial hit (the 2nd will combo if the first hit)

First:

Awesome - thank you. The Beetle community is kinda ridiculous, Akio, Espio and you have all jumped to help with detailed and thorough responses with reasonings and situational explanations, etc. Akio spent over an hour in the lab with me the other day, Espio has given me tons of info and sets.. I think if other character communities had the kind of attitude and willingness to help out that the Beetle community does, we'd see more active character forums..

I mean, you all have even managed to disagree about things in a couple threads/posts and its been respectful and reasonable... I think you all dont know how to internet - and that's a good thing, lol.

Second:

For instant flight cancels, is there an input trick to make it easier, or is it just something I have to really grind out? And do you typically do them with like, upforward, just up, or upback? When i'm trying to get a really low FC and have the space, I poverty it out with a 13fc in neutral lol.

 

[Sesal Snow]

First:

Awesome - thank you. The Beetle community is kinda ridiculous, Akio, Espio and you have all jumped to help with detailed and thorough responses with reasonings and situational explanations, etc. Akio spent over an hour in the lab with me the other day, Espio has given me tons of info and sets.. I think if other character communities had the kind of attitude and willingness to help out that the Beetle community does, we'd see more active character forums..

I mean, you all have even managed to disagree about things in a couple threads/posts and its been respectful and reasonable... I think you all dont know how to internet - and that's a good thing, lol.

Second:

For instant flight cancels, is there an input trick to make it easier, or is it just something I have to really grind out? And do you typically do them with like, upforward, just up, or upback? When i'm trying to get a really low FC and have the space, I poverty it out with a 13fc in neutral lol.

Yeah the Beetle community is great we all pretty much get along very well and debate things when we disagree with each other.
As for the instant fc's I think its just a matter of inputting it nice and fast. I simply just jump in any direction and input it as soon as I leave the ground. Might just take a little practice to get the hang of.

 

[Sesal Snow]

Oh another thing for you Beetles who have not joined the discord you probably should.
We talk all things social about the game or not its a great community.
A lot of people do not agree with discords because they say it destroys this site but we try to post everything we find or talk about on here and discord to have a nice archive to study and learn.

https://discord.gg/mN2xQWG

 

[pfiidud3]

For insta flight cancels. I usualy jump forward. (I find it easier, but prolly just cuz i di it tht way and have had practicr) it realy is just a quick input kinda thing. And if your doing it for some arial dash cu set up, it may depend on the specific set up / if you wnt to cross up or not.

"I dont think you know how to internet" made me literaly laugh out loud. Thanks.

 

[pfiidud3]

Yeah the Beetle community is great we all pretty much get along very well

Except for buyacushin (more like buyaclue, amirite?) Dat punk.

Jk. Im roasting him just cuz he says he never comes on tym anymore. He wont ever know..... unless yall rat on me =P

 

[AkioOf100]

xD I don't really mind it when people disagree with me on something like beetle gameplay. A lot of things tend to work for this character so there's not just one solid gameplan for him. No two beetles are ever the same and there's never a "right" way to play. That's what I love about the character alongside the fact that Jaime Reyes is just freaking hilarious!

@pfiidud3 Are you on PS4? I'd like to learn some combos and stuff if that's cool. Seems like you have a lot of other tech that works for you. It's never bad to add more to your gameplan!

 

[pfiidud3]

xD I don't really mind it when people disagree with me on something like beetle gameplay. A lot of things tend to work for this character so there's not just one solid gameplan for him. No two beetles are ever the same and there's never a "right" way to play. That's what I love about the character alongside the fact that Jaime Reyes is just freaking hilarious!

@pfiidud3 Are you on PS4? I'd like to learn some combos and stuff if that's cool. Seems like you have a lot of other tech that works for you. It's never bad to add more to your gameplan!

Yah, the tag is psiidude. Add me

 

[Tony at Home]

Thoughts on Beetle post patch anyone?

I'm looking at the damage on Xbox, and it looks like combos do on average 30 more damage. Some AA conversions bout 50 more- or a f23 whiff punish. Hard to tell but I'd wager Beetle would be scoring 150 more damage during the course of a match. I don't think that changes too much.

More curious about the meta afterwards. Deadshot matchup and Batman matchup could be even now (assuming they weren't before)?

 

[ChatterBox]

Thoughts on Beetle post patch anyone?

I'm looking at the damage on Xbox, and it looks like combos do on average 30 more damage. Some AA conversions bout 50 more- or a f23 whiff punish. Hard to tell but I'd wager Beetle would be scoring 150 more damage during the course of a match. I don't think that changes too much.

More curious about the meta afterwards. Deadshot matchup and Batman matchup could be even now (assuming they weren't before)?

I'm more curious if you could check on all those hitbox "adujustments" on the ol Xbone for us?

The damage was always an afterthought to me, I need db1, j1/2, 111, and b13 to hit more often, partially cause I suck and partially cause they're awful.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

I dunno, 150 is nothing to scoff at.. thats like.. 12-15% of a life bar. Every little bit helps I guess. Its certainly not earth shattering, but nice. Its not going to tilt any MUs in our favor that weren't already or anything, but its always nice lol.

 

[Tony at Home]

I'm more curious if you could check on all those hitbox "adujustments" on the ol Xbone for us?

The damage was always an afterthought to me, I need db1, j1/2, 111, and b13 to hit more often, partially cause I suck and partially cause they're awful.

db1 feels like it hits more, like it has a kinda "suction" to the hitbox like Batman's grapple does. But can't say for certain.

I can't see any change in 111. Second hit will whiff as often as it used to due to distance.

I almost never use b13 so can't really say. I also wasn't aware j1/j2 had any whiffing issues. j1 in blade stance can still whiff if you hit it too early after 13 xx bf2, d (now that I think of it, the slightest adjustment to the vert hitbox of this would have been nice for this reason)

 

[ChatterBox]

db1 feels like it hits more, like it has a kinda "suction" to the hitbox like Batman's grapple does. But can't say for certain.

I can't see any change in 111. Second hit will whiff as often as it used to due to distance.

I almost never use b13 so can't really say. I also wasn't aware j1/j2 had any whiffing issues. j1 in blade stance can still whiff if you hit it too early after 13 xx bf2, d (now that I think of it, the slightest adjustment to the vert hitbox of this would have been nice for this reason)

that's some nice work and some bad news, thanks though

 

[Espio]

Every single bit of damage counts. His damage wasn't what I would classify as "bad" anyway before this patch. He got a reliable 300 damage on combos and around 500 for two bars, which was all relatively in line with most of the cast. If he's getting 50(5%) more damage on anti-airs, that's an amazingly big deal and 30(3% ish) of damage per combo is sufficient.

Then there's the one thing nobody is talking about, the 17 (near 20 frames of recovery) shaved off of shield bash, people having to be a lot more on point is huge, you're more likely to get caught in pressure than eat a full combo in most cases and that's a big, undersold deal in my view. It's the one buff I've heard almost no noise about for some reason.

If the changes to damage, whiff recovery and hitbox changes on normals are what people think/hope they are, there's no longer any excuses for people to make about this character. He was fine before these changes, very serviceable character if you put in the time so now it's time to grind, no more excuses for anyone especially since many of his losing match ups got nerfed in very notable ways (Deadshot and Batman), let's go!

Thoughts on Beetle post patch anyone?

I'm looking at the damage on Xbox, and it looks like combos do on average 30 more damage. Some AA conversions bout 50 more- or a f23 whiff punish. Hard to tell but I'd wager Beetle would be scoring 150 more damage during the course of a match. I don't think that changes too much.

More curious about the meta afterwards. Deadshot matchup and Batman matchup could be even now (assuming they weren't before)?

Beetle already had a good anti-air versus Batman so with the jump 2 changes, we could really shut him down reliably I suspect. Pushblock is going to be super potent versus him now as well and we build meter like it's Oxygen while his meter building took a hit. I'm very optimistic this won't be a losing match up anymore. I suspect with a life lead he's still going to be really frustrating for Beetle to chase down though so that might keep the pendulum from swinging too far over to our side.


Deadshot is going to be one of those, you need to play it to really see match ups I suspect. Deathstroke got notable nerfs in Injustice 1 that allegedly really hurt the character, but he still beat many of the characters he beat previously so we shall see.

 

[Tony at Home]

Admittedly my eyes glazed over the shield bash 17 frames reduced recovery buff.

I saw it and was like "kewl...wait- what's 1,000,000 - 17 ? My math is a bit rusty."

I concede its probably alot more consequential than that though.

 

[Espio]

Yeah, it's really not that negative on whiff to be that dramatic. People would miss the punish when I was at CEO earlier this year if they weren't super on point.

It went from 53 to 36, that's significant and it will definitely show. People can sleep on that if they want to of course if that suits them. Considering how safe and good that move is it's definitely something to be excited for honestly.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

I think it'll be very helpful in avoiding damage from odd situations that cause a whiff, but if they're expecting the whiff - I dunno. Additionally, Beetle isnt around a ton and a lot of people dont know the MU super well. I'm betting if we see him more often people are going to shore up their games and be more on point with those punishes.

Dont get me wrong, I think it's going to save out asses occasionally.. I just dont want to rely on people missing 36 frame punishes when they get used to fighting the character, lol.

I retract my "not tilt MUs" thing on the damage buff.