Blue Beetle General Discussion Thread

[AkioOf100]

Scarecrow f1 punishes it ez. xD

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Wuz this about a corner vortex @Laos_boy ? Or did I misunderstand something

 

[Laos_boy]

Wuz this about a corner vortex @Laos_boy ? Or did I misunderstand something

https://twitter.com/Heeyge0rge/status/930217848215089152

 

[Espio]

I think it'll be very helpful in avoiding damage from odd situations that cause a whiff, but if they're expecting the whiff - I dunno. Additionally, Beetle isnt around a ton and a lot of people dont know the MU super well. I'm betting if we see him more often people are going to shore up their games and be more on point with those punishes.

Dont get me wrong, I think it's going to save out asses occasionally.. I just dont want to rely on people missing 36 frame punishes when they get used to fighting the character, lol.

I retract my "not tilt MUs" thing on the damage buff.

Whiff punishing shield is not something that requires super acute match up knowledge, it's a super simple whiff punish whether you know the match up or not and nobody is talking about relying on it.

The point is a lot of characters don't have insanely fast advancing mids like Superman so if you whiff on a bad read, you are more likely to get caught in pressure as opposed to a full combo which is a much better trade off which should go without saying. If the opponent is scouting it then yes, they should get a full combo and they still will. Let's not get it twisted.


No matches should be tilted from the damage buff either. Whoever he beats, he already beat before the damage buff like Ivy, Atrocitus etc. The damage buff is nice but he was still getting nearly 300+ for a bar and almost 500 to 500+ for two.

The other thing people don't understand is increases of those levels aren't gonna make a 5-5 suddenly 6-4. Cheetah has superb damage potential but doesn't beat and likely loses to say Brainiac while Beetle goes even because his other tools shine against Brainiac while Cheetah's don't.

His bad match ups for the most part got significant nerfs so that's what's really gonna help (Deadshot and Batman).

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Whiff punishing shield is not something that requires super acute match up knowledge, it's a super simple whiff punish whether you know the match up or not and nobody is talking about relying on it.

The point is a lot of characters don't have insanely fast advancing mids like Superman so if you whiff on a bad read, you are more likely to get caught in pressure as opposed to a full combo which is a much better trade off which should go without saying. If the opponent is scouting it then yes, they should get a full combo and they still will. Let's not get it twisted.


No matches should be tilted from the damage buff either. Whoever he beats, he already beat before the damage buff like Ivy, Atrocitus etc. The damage buff is nice but he was still getting nearly 300+ for a bar and almost 500 to 500+ for two.

The other thing people don't understand is increases of those levels aren't gonna make a 5-5 suddenly 6-4. Cheetah has superb damage potential but doesn't beat and likely loses to say Brainiac while Beetle goes even because his other tools shine against Brainiac while Cheetah's don't.

His bad match ups for the most part got significant nerfs so that's what's really gonna help (Deadshot and Batman).

Fair enough.

 

[Espio]

So it's been pretty quiet here lately, but I was curious as to where everyone's head is on Jaime.

We playing him any differently as time has gone on, everyone feeling pretty good about the character still?

The biggest thing I need to do that I'm not currently doing is incorporating Back 1 into walk back forward 2, 3/shield bash as a counter poke trap, it's a deeper, more nuanced mind game I'm trying to work on. If handled well, you can start throwing and other stagger pressure options as well.

My ground game for a while has revolved around MB projectile pressure but I think it's especially important to utilize with him especially in match ups where zipping around isn't as feasible.

 

[Laos_boy]

Fireball footsies is the way to go

It's high but it forces people to jump at your amazing d2

Converting off anti air cannon will be a big deal since he doesn't get damage unless it's off a clean punish.

That's how I'm playing beetle. I love projectiles that have no recovery.

D3 is amazing it leads to a bunch of oki with b2, d3, and float mix ups

He honestly dominates the mid range pretty well

The only MU I have issues with is green arrow

 

[AkioOf100]

Honestly I’ve been playing the Arrow matchup a lot, not gonna say this is 100% accurate but here’s what I think so far:

We can really counter-zone him with air projectiles pretty well, and MB donut comes back really quickly, which literally makes him lose his turn and does a big chunk of damage if he’s holding an arrow.

The huge thing I’ve noticed was boxing glove Arrow.. if he takes us out of the air with one of those, we eat a lot of damage and then we’re full screen again, AND he gets to load fire arrows, which are NOT fun!

I play the matchup with mace stance until I get in, and then I take out claws after a knockdown. We can destroy his wake up game with our oki (at least I’ve been able to, I could be wrong).

I have some people tell me it’s 7-3 Arrow but I don’t see how it’s a 7-3. 6-4 maybe? Because of boxing glove and ice arrows.

Thoughts?

 

[Espio]

@Sesal Snow @Mista_Snacks @Laos_boy @AkioOf100 @Deoxys243 and other Beetle players, any thoughts on the Enchantress match up so far?

It feels super momentum based but overall the best thing for Beetle to do is stay at a neutral/round start range to where it's hard for her to react to his approaches, zoning etc and well placed floats into air projectiles can bypass her hell's gate and she's pretty free on knockdown to our float pressure, but her down 2 is godlike air control/check, she also can somewhat check post blocked shield bash but Beetle can also punish her astral soul rip with bash.

Beetle can also bypass trait pretty well, but if she gets a no specials hex or a jump/duck hex on him, he can struggle a bit so it's very strange to call it much of anything.

 

[Laos_boy]

I've actually tried blade stance it seems pretty effective. She just out damages him. But who doesn't?

They both have great d2s to stop each other's air shenanigans

Honestly hell's gate is only a bug threat full screen. So cannon is still pretty effective at the mid range because it's just pure neutral between them she'll take the risk of getting f2d if she goes for a midscreen hell gate.

So as long as she can't keep you fullscreen you should be good

 

[AkioOf100]

We gotta mix up our options a lot against her. It becomes a mind game of whether or not we’ll be using blades. Xibalba can’t check beetle as well as we can check xibalba/any of her full screen options.

If she gets she special curse on us, we lose tho.

 

[Espio]

I've actually tried blade stance it seems pretty effective. She just out damages him. But who doesn't?

They both have great d2s to stop each other's air shenanigans

Honestly hell's gate is only a bug threat full screen. So cannon is still pretty effective at the mid range because it's just pure neutral between them she'll take the risk of getting f2d if she goes for a midscreen hell gate.

So as long as she can't keep you fullscreen you should be good

Those bug puns lul.

Blade stance is great versus her, but I mostly used mace stance. It feels 5-5 to me currently like for every counter I can think of that Beetle has, Enchantress has roughly the same in a lot of cases but as long as you occupy the aforementioned space she has a really hard time starting up.


It actually kind of reminds me of Stryker versus Jade for some reason. I assume because of the mind games associated.

 

[Tony at Home]

Enchantress is a fucking weird matchup that's all I'll say

 

[Espio]

Enchantress is a fucking weird matchup that's all I'll say

Speaking of which when are we playing my dear Beetle main?

 

[Tony at Home]

Speaking of which when are we playing my dear Beetle main?

Should be on tonight

 

[SHIV123_]

Hey everyone, I'm having trouble with the Brainiac matchup, especially against a certain Brainiac player. I'm having trouble dealing with the drone pressure and punishing mb dive kicks (if punishing that is even a thing). I think I poke too much after the mb dive kicks and I get poked back and mixed. Also, the air to air game is tough! When he's in the air I can't do a jump 1 because the Brainiac always beats me with his jump 1 (even with blade stance). I tried to zone a few times and it didn't go too well. Maybe I'm not zoning enough? My mid screen game needs work? Any tips for this or the Brainiac MU in general?

 

[AkioOf100]

Hey everyone, I'm having trouble with the Brainiac matchup, especially against a certain Brainiac player. I'm having trouble dealing with the drone pressure and punishing mb dive kicks (if punishing that is even a thing). I think I poke too much after the mb dive kicks and I get poked back and mixed. Also, the air to air game is tough! When he's in the air I can't do a jump 1 because the Brainiac always beats me with his jump 1 (even with blade stance). I tried to zone a few times and it didn't go too well. Maybe I'm not zoning enough? My mid screen game needs work? Any tips for this or the Brainiac MU in general?

his air priority on dive kick makes it pretty hard to air-to-air him so you have to force him to play our game at full screen.

eliminate his usage of trait w/ zoning, force him into the air, and use flight cancels as WELL as air-to-airs with blade stance up close (bc it's hard without blades up close). Get him back out, and zone him out. Rinse / repeat.

 

[Espio]

Hey everyone, I'm having trouble with the Brainiac matchup, especially against a certain Brainiac player. I'm having trouble dealing with the drone pressure and punishing mb dive kicks (if punishing that is even a thing). I think I poke too much after the mb dive kicks and I get poked back and mixed. Also, the air to air game is tough! When he's in the air I can't do a jump 1 because the Brainiac always beats me with his jump 1 (even with blade stance). I tried to zone a few times and it didn't go too well. Maybe I'm not zoning enough? My mid screen game needs work? Any tips for this or the Brainiac MU in general?

Zoning and using your air mobility is a good way to deal with trait, keeps him at bay and disrupt attempts to get in on you.

You should be able to very easily anti-air him in blade stance, you may need to space it better because in blade stance it's extremely rare to get beaten out. Jump back even outside of blade stance with one should get it done.

You're not gonna get him every time so sometimes you may have to block, but he loses his turn in most cases and you build enough meter to just pushblock if you don't want to deal with trait pressure. The problem sounds to be that you're going to anti-air after he has already gotten his jump normal out so you're not beating it then, that's too late.


Beetle does fine against him up close, I play it a mix of zoning, spacing and rushdown. MB dive kick isn't safe enough to ever get your counter option of standing 3, down 1, shield bash or any reasonably fast option beaten out. It sounds like this person is abusing online to get away with more. His wake up game is weak and very vulnerable to MB forward/back 3.

Here's a high level example of how to play the match up

I can post some of my sets if that would also be helpful.

 

[SHIV123_]

his air priority on dive kick makes it pretty hard to air-to-air him so you have to force him to play our game at full screen.

eliminate his usage of trait w/ zoning, force him into the air, and use flight cancels as WELL as air-to-airs with blade stance up close (bc it's hard without blades up close). Get him back out, and zone him out. Rinse / repeat.

Ok great thank you so much! I'll try this out.

 

[SHIV123_]

Zoning and using your air mobility is a good way to deal with trait, keeps him at bay and disrupt attempts to get in on you.

You should be able to very easily anti-air him in blade stance, you may need to space it better because in blade stance it's extremely rare to get beaten out. Jump back even outside of blade stance with one should get it done.

You're not gonna get him every time so sometimes you may have to block, but he loses his turn in most cases and you build enough meter to just pushblock if you don't want to deal with trait pressure. The problem sounds to be that you're going to anti-air after he has already gotten his jump normal out so you're not beating it then, that's too late.


Beetle does fine against him up close, I play it a mix of zoning, spacing and rushdown. MB dive kick isn't safe enough to ever get your counter option of standing 3, down 1, shield bash or any reasonably fast option beaten out. It sounds like this person is abusing online to get away with more. His wake up game is weak and very vulnerable to MB forward/back 3.

Here's a high level example of how to play the match up

I can post some of my sets if that would also be helpful.

Alright, thanks for the advice! The video was helpful. Yeah sure, if you can post a few of your sets that would be great.

 

[Espio]

Alright, thanks for the advice! The video was helpful. Yeah sure, if you can post a few of your sets that would be great.

I forgot to mention his anti-air blade special is also a good check if you make a read. You'll notice in part two of the set I post a jump 1 anti-air on dive kick as well as jump 1 float cancel to bait a dive kick mb that causes him to waste meter. You'll also see trait 2,1 stuffing his wake ups as well. Just some ideas to experiment/play around with incorporating into your game. Forward 2 and back 1 can also stuff.

Part 1 starts at 35:50 and there's some gems here too like a forward 2 anti-air in trait while Brainiac is jumping into full combo.

And part 2

 

[Cursa]

I've started to pick up some Beetle recently due to his high mobility and excellent projectile/footsies (Depending on which you choose). He feels very versatile since he can compete well against both rushdown and zoners, while being component in both himself.

Anyway, I've started to get some of his flight cancels down in combos and such but I'd just like some advice on how to best use his tools to their maximum effectiveness. Obviously it changes depending on matchup but maybe just a bread n butter sort of list on using his projectile, when to use trait, floats etc...

 

[Espio]

I've started to pick up some Beetle recently due to his high mobility and excellent projectile/footsies (Depending on which you choose). He feels very versatile since he can compete well against both rushdown and zoners, while being component in both himself.

Anyway, I've started to get some of his flight cancels down in combos and such but I'd just like some advice on how to best use his tools to their maximum effectiveness. Obviously it changes depending on matchup but maybe just a bread n butter sort of list on using his projectile, when to use trait, floats etc...

Trait is used when you want/need a strong neutral game, anti-air or more obnoxious pressure/opki as jump 1, jump 3, forward 3, down 2, down 1 and back 2 become extremely potent, it's real good against characters that you aren't purely zoning like Brainiac, Cheetah, Enchantress, Hellboy among others.

Floats can be useful for pretty much anything from offense to defense, evasion mind games to set up zoning and advancing. I like using jump float in the corner after ending a combo in blade stab because you can mix them up with jump 3 versus jump 2 for various cross up/non-cross up scenarios ad jump 3 is plus on block so even if they block you right, you can potentially go for a throw or more block pressure.

https://testyourmight.com/threads/blue-beetle-for-people-in-a-hurry.65987/

I made this for new Beetle players, it's to get you on your feet and hit the ground running. It has combos, good concepts/ideas for optimal normal use and such, it gives you some innovative ways to approach him. If you have more specific questions, I would be happy to assist you in any way I can .

 

[Mandolore1123]

I need a bit of advice against Beetle. I play Atom and Black Adam. Need some help with Beetle’s mixups from float, as well as Beetle just flying around the screen.


Sent from my iPhone using Test Your Might

 

[Laos_boy]

I need a bit of advice against Beetle. I play Atom and Black Adam. Need some help with Beetle’s mixups from float, as well as Beetle just flying around the screen.


Sent from my iPhone using Test Your Might

For atom tips look at M2dave vs raptor.

M2dave basically just ran away the whole match until trait came back.

Idk howt black Adam is supposed to play in this match. They contest each other well.