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Best Run-jabbers/Run-jab pressurers

What should be done is a thingy like what you guys all did with the characters and who's good against them thing.

For example Kabal : Good against = robots Bad against = Unmasked Sub
(for an example only, there may or may not be truth in this........just an ex.)


But with RJ's. :D
I wouldnt mind something like that. The problem will come in when every single person has a different perspective on who should counter whos Rjabs. I dont think there could be a FINAL say.
Kitana would counter just about anybody's jabs i'd say. [cept Kabal].

Is there a COUNTER Characters Thread on this site anywhere?
 

oBryant

Apprentice
.

Is there a COUNTER Characters Thread on this site anywhere?
this would be a great idea, but the debate about it will go on for ever.. id say everyone should just make there own and have the umk3 gods(dubs,shock and others) decide who is closest.

Kabal - Kung lao, Sub zero, Reptile

Kung lao - kabal, sonya, female ninjas, sindel, kano, jax, H. smoke, night wolfe

H. smoke - ermac, Kabal.

Kano - kabal, h. smoke, sonya, jax

Reptile - kabal, night wolf, ermac, H. smoke, sonya.

ermac - H. smoke, kabal

night wolf - sonya, kano, jax (anyone with a good and fast sweep)

Robo smoke - Robo smoke, anyone with a relaunch, kabal, night wolf.

Sindel - H. smoke, kung lao, kano, kabal

jax - kung lao, kabal, h. smoke.

Sonya - kabal, kung lao. (i think her position in the tier list is under estimated)

Kitana - sonya, kano, kung lao, kabal

Stryker - Kung lao, sonya, H. smoke, kano, kabal

Scorpion - EVERYONE

U. sub - H. smoke, kabal, kung lao, night wolf

Jade - sonya, kano, kabal.

Liu kang - everyone

Sektor - anyone with a relaunch, night wolf

C. sub - H. smoke, ermac, kung lao, kabal.

Cyrax - anyone with a relaunch, night wolf

Shang tsung - anyone if not, everyone

mileena - uhh.. havent really played against her enough

Sheeva - ALL THE ABOVE
 
Wow. You really thought that through. Impressive. ill scheme up one when i have more time. I think we should do it on another thread though cuz after all this is for Run Jab/Rj Pressurers.

Or is that list for countering character's Rjabs?
 

oBryant

Apprentice
Wow. You really thought that through. Impressive. ill scheme up one when i have more time. I think we should do it on another thread though cuz after all this is for Run Jab/Rj Pressurers.

Or is that list for countering character's Rjabs?
its just my counter character list. my bad i posted it in here
 

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
Founder
O.G.
In terms of practical danger of releasing block at a bad time during run jabs in effort to counter, this is a list of the logical damages that can be done from characters in a common scenarios, but I will throw in some tactical options here and there for characters who do not have reasonable rub jab damage potential. Remember many pop up combos start with knee lifts so you can attempt relaunchers with whoever has them but I will keep references to them to a minimum. This list is not about which characters have the tightest RJs or best corner advantages.

I will try and do juggle LP options tomorrow, the list will probably look a little bit different than this. Corners as well, unless someone else wants to review that info, and then we can cross reference all the lists and come up with something to determine RJ values for all characters.

Reptile - damage is quite variable from 43-100% depending upon opponent - vs Shang Reptile can do 3 hit pop up to forceball, aaHPHP, Elbow Dash, aaHP, Elbow Dash, Uppercut for 43%, vs all other characters Reptile should be able to score a minimum of 50% and infinite up to 8 characters I believe. There are more but far too difficult.

Stryker - damage is quite variable from 40-100% depending on corner placement and opponent. Stryker can RJ (for chip) Robot Ninjas, Sheeva, Kung Lao, Kabal, Shang Tsung, Jax, and Kano. Throwing out a kara jab with Stryker can bait attacks easily, so always go for a cross screen or corner inf variation (if available). Vs Shang his max mid screen combo is 4 hit pop up, Riot Gun, Baton Dash, aaHP, JK for 40%. Overall his RJs are the least effective pound for pound but his damage is high on characters he can use them against.

Human Smoke - 50-59% - H Smoke's standard B&B combo of HK, LP, JK, TP, Spear, 3 hit pop up, aaHP, JK, air throw works on every character except Sheeva (substitute JP and it will work with a few % less) and it does 56%, the problem is when you are RJing, you tend to overlap the last 1/3 of the screen so connecting the JK to TP can be tough on some characters, so you might want to stick in a TP - aaHP after, reducing damage a bit (vs Shang mostly), or, if you are close to the wall, leave out the TP and go with a corner combo to break 60% in most cases. Remember it's not always about completing a repetitious combo, but utilizing the most with what you have. Also remember H Smoke can relaunch everyone. Specifically vs Sheeva you can substitute HK, LP, aaHPHP, spear, 3 hit, aaHP, JK, air throw for exactly 50%.

Ermac - 42-54% - vs Sheeva you should be able to get , HK, LP, TP, TKS, aaRH, TP, HK which is reasonable damage vs her, OR, you can attempt to relaunch her. Vs Shang, HK, LP, JK, TP, TKS, aaHPHP, JK is possible for 45%. vs most other characters you can add the optional extra aaHP in after the aaHPHP. Vs the large characters you can do HK, LP, aaRH, TP, TKS, otgHK, LP, aaHP fireball, and many other optional combos totalling up to 54% but become very complex and flashy. Remember using the aaRH in combos often times leads to very close corner proximity so utilize the corners to break into the 60s.

Nightwolf - 41-53% - Most reasonably vs Sheeva and Shang NW can get 41% with 5 hit, axe, HK, and up to 52% with 4 axe combos vs many characters, and then an example of 53% is vs Jax, 5 hit, axe, aaHP, axe, aaHP, tackle. There are various NW mid screen variations, some may even go a little beyond that. Also remember tackle lock down mix ups.

Kano - 23-47% - you can opt easily for Kano's 4 hit kick combo or HK, LP, JK, air throw and get pretty low damage, or you can his 3 hit knee lift pop up, optional HP before the JK to air throw on most characters for closer to 33%, a deep JK, to various options like LK, HK, or cannonball reaching up to 34%, or if you're very daring, vs some characters mid screen you can do 3 hit pop up, deep JK, aaLP, Manhandle, to LK or cannonball. VERY DIFFICULT but possible on about half the characters.

Sindel - 43-46% - 4 hit pop up, aaHP, (option second aaHP), JK, AFB. RJ scream mix ups are not as good as they might seem.

Classic Sub-zero - 19-46% - His 3 hit kick combo has an awkward way of performing it so you don't see it used very often, however using the first 2 hits while blocked is useful for mix ups. A common tactic is using his ground freeze during RJs, setting up cross up JPS, 4 hit pop up, deepJK, HK for 46%. There are various other 40% variations for him. Remember C Sub can easily relaunch many characters.

Sonya - 38-42% - 5 hit pop up, (optional aaHP), JK, leg grab - to rush down mix ups, or 5 hit pop up, JK (optional LK or HK)

Kabal - 30-42% - (optional Spin), 5 hit pop up, (optional aaHP), JK AFB. The spin is always a threat during RJs because the start up is so fast, resulting in reasonable damage mid screen and high damage in the corners.

Sheeva - 27-40% - knee lift 4 hit kick combo, potential Ground Stomp and Teleport Stomp mix ups, if you opt for the punch combo (remember it hits high), you can finish out to the 7 hit, or opt for juggles with the 4 hit punch combo. Sheeva's 4 hit kick combo is you key to victory in many cases on Sheeva rush down as everything else is counterable or avoidable. Sheeva also has good throw potential with throw to HK for 28%, or throw to uppercut vs Male ninjas, for 31%. Vs many characters a throw = a free unavoiable teleport stomp after the second bounce. Learn the timing, it's useful. Some characters can escape or counter it with special moves but throw - teleport stomp = 40%

Jax - 37-39% - 7 hit ground combo to ground pound, or, 6 hits of 7, (optional sweep, LK, or HK) into sweep tactics to Back Breaker. Mix up his sweeps during RJs in general as well to bait jumping into Back Breaker traps.

Mileena - 23-39% - 4 hit kick combo, 3 hit or 5 hit pop up, (optional aaLP), JK, air sai. Rolls or Teleport Kicks during RJs are not too smart but can result in small damage.

Kung Lao - 19-34% - Basically all you can get off a ground guard break with Kung are his standard chain combos. You can sometimes do a spin during RJ rush down and hope for a guard break but do not commit to the spin so it stops quickly. This may put you on the defensive but opens up more possibilities for Kung counters.

Unmasked Sub-zero - 19-34% - Very simple, rush, use his 3 hit kick combo, mix in Ice Clones and change to zoning, Close Air Freezes are sometimes ok to entice counters which will freeze them and worth the damage trade off, Freezes too but not often. If an Ice Clone or Freeze hits, use his typical large ground combos, or a deep JK to juggle.

Kitana - 23-31% - 4 hit kick combo to fan keep away, or 4 hit fan combo (optional sweep on male characters except Shang)

Robot Smoke - 19-31% - Stick to his three hit HK, HK, LP combo mixing up with RJs. You can occasionally throw out a Harpoon if expect a counter, but it isn't always the best idea. A Harpoon to 5 hit combo also leads to free invis before the combo so that is a reward for the risk. Some players even do invis during RJs followed by a Harpoon but that requires a committed pattern.

Sektor - 15-31% - 3 hit pop up, aaHP, (optional second aaHP) JK, into homing missile lock down, or his simple HK, HK combo.

Jade - 23-29% - 4 hit kick combo, or 4 hit staff combo, sweep (optional LK or HK on some characters)

Shang - 27% - knee lift 5 hit combo, into fireball lock down

Liu Kang - 22-25% - Liu's 4 hit kick combo can be used during RJs, but also remember the trusty Bike Kick's property for counters. If you connect it while your opponent is trying to counter you can connect a free Dragon Kick after it mid screen for 25%. Also remember that many times this counter Bike Kick will bring them to the corner, so afterwards do his 7 hit combo followed by optional unlockable sweep, LK, or HK depending on the opponent, resulting into up 48%.

Cyrax - 19-24% - simple 3 hit kick combo maybe be your best bet during rush down. You could throw out some semi risky nets during run jabs which puts him up to as much as 42% with a kick starter to 6 hit combo but that is inadvisable. Doing close bombs during RJs is a good idea, which makes your opponent jump away, then throw a long bomb. At this point they cannot rush you because the first bomb is about to go off, so use this chance to knock them back into the far bomb, resulting in much higher damage. If you get a throw with him, a possible combo is aaLP, Net, aaHPHP, JK for 24%, then do his air throw while they are falling to put Cyrax very close to them for more rushing and mix ups.

Scorpion - 23% - his knee lift kick combo is generally the only one you should use during RJs, leave out the last hit when blocked for recovery advantage, stick out a HK or LK to counter rush. I wouldn't advise throwing Spears while RJing. Sometimes during RJs you can do a teleport punch when it will not put you off screen, which baits rush down and in that situation you MAY want to throw a spear, or if they jump, RH, TP, spear, 4 hit combo for 37% (optional pause, RH, teleport back over them for further rush down - watch for counter uppercut on teleport). Going for damage use aaRH, TP, aaHP, (optional aaHP), Spear, 4 hit combo for 46%.
 

Houzi

Mortal
Damn Shock,

You always write so much information.

My suggestion is that the Mods from this site should get a damn book published
 
also if someone tries to jump away or just accidentally gets aaLPed a lot of characters can work with that for combos giving them just a little more potential in the rj game.

Kabal can spin them, ermac can tks, anyone with an air throw can just jump forward and throw them, other characters etc...
 

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
Founder
O.G.
also if someone tries to jump away or just accidentally gets aaLPed a lot of characters can work with that for combos giving them just a little more potential in the rj game.

Kabal can spin them, ermac can tks, anyone with an air throw can just jump forward and throw them, other characters etc...
Yeah I might do LP juggle options tonight, but I have to get to bed basically after work since I'll be heading to Philly for NEC in the early AM.
 
Jesus Christ! That's perfect. Thats all i really wanted. God damn im gonna save that somewhere in Word. Great anazlying of pretty much everything that has to do with damage opportunities with Rjabs.

I agree that LP juggle damage potential should definitely be in there. (since it happens fairly often). Excellent man, excellent.

I would try and cover the Lp juggle deal to save you some work, but all my stored knowledge fails in comparison to yours....so i'd really have to do some studying. I might give it a shot but it wont be anywhere near as eleborate, not to mention, accurate.
 

oBryant

Apprentice
when ever i recover from throwing someone to the floor i run in and throw 2 lp's just in case they try and jump back.. it always works.. for people who jump alot
 

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
Founder
O.G.
There is still more to write, I'll finish this up this week.
 

MKK hanzo

Moderator
this would be a great idea, but the debate about it will go on for ever.. id say everyone should just make there own and have the umk3 gods(dubs,shock and others) decide who is closest.

Kabal - Kung lao, Sub zero, Reptile

Kung lao - kabal, sonya, female ninjas, sindel, kano, jax, H. smoke, night wolfe

H. smoke - ermac, Kabal.

Kano - kabal, h. smoke, sonya, jax

Reptile - kabal, night wolf, ermac, H. smoke, sonya.

ermac - H. smoke, kabal

night wolf - sonya, kano, jax (anyone with a good and fast sweep)

Robo smoke - Robo smoke, anyone with a relaunch, kabal, night wolf.

Sindel - H. smoke, kung lao, kano, kabal

jax - kung lao, kabal, h. smoke.

Sonya - kabal, kung lao. (i think her position in the tier list is under estimated)

Kitana - sonya, kano, kung lao, kabal

Stryker - Kung lao, sonya, H. smoke, kano, kabal

Scorpion - EVERYONE

U. sub - H. smoke, kabal, kung lao, night wolf

Jade - sonya, kano, kabal.

Liu kang - everyone

Sektor - anyone with a relaunch, night wolf

C. sub - H. smoke, ermac, kung lao, kabal.

Cyrax - anyone with a relaunch, night wolf

Shang tsung - anyone if not, everyone

mileena - uhh.. havent really played against her enough

Sheeva - ALL THE ABOVE
IMO this is not right, This is one of the hardest matchups for Lao. He just MISSES everything against her. It feels like an MKI match. Sorry for Necromangcing this thread hehe
 

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
Founder
O.G.
Read through the damage potential/threat list I have. I could make some adjustments for tiny increases in damage, and a few specific combos, but it's still good for now. A list of the most consistent Rub jabbing ability is in order though. Things like the trickiest run jabs to escape, who has the best range, etc. All done with math.
 

MKK hanzo

Moderator
Read through the damage potential/threat list I have. I could make some adjustments for tiny increases in damage, and a few specific combos, but it's still good for now. A list of the most consistent Rub jabbing ability is in order though. Things like the trickiest run jabs to escape, who has the best range, etc. All done with math.
Oh wait... This is a list of COUNTER RUN JABS? Or a COUNTER CHARACTER overall list? Wow my bad then =(

Thx Tim & Shock
 

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
Founder
O.G.
Oh wait... This is a list of COUNTER RUN JABS? Or a COUNTER CHARACTER overall list? Wow my bad then =(

Thx Tim & Shock
Whatever you want to post about run jabs is fine, but some real details per character, not just stuff like "Well I think so and so has the best run jabs just cause." like some people will post.
 

AC1984

Kaballin!
I need to hit up the UMK3 textbooks and start actually getting involved in threads like this one.

P.S. nothing to say.....