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"Believe in magic yet?" - Zatanna Match-Up Discussion thread

V

Vahfy

Noob
Flash and Lex might have some problems because of their movement. You can predict and time them. But Catwoman and Batman would be a guess, at best, because of their speed and float. I know Flash is very fast, but his movement is pretty linear. Bat trait and catdash aren't their only tools vs range either. Batman can use his float to move in through an area that Zatana can't cover with her DB2 and can't time with her DF3(since he can change his trajectory). If you are full screen vs Catwoman they will gladly dodge projectiles for their meter and trait. Lobo can dive over fireballs and/or dash under them. And once he is in range he can low chain to beat out most of Zatana's trait moves or otherwise, plus in trait she can't block it either. Oh and Catwoman also has that low whip which you can't block in trait as well.

But of course, none of this addresses the obvious, most of these characters can out hit Zatana and stop her from getting space with just their jump ins or dashes. Air dash characters are especially fun. Landing a hit isn't impossible, just that when people start to realize how bad her startups are...it might be.
 
cirkusfreaksho

cirkusfreaksho

All in a day's work
Vahfy said:
Flash and Lex might have some problems because of their movement. You can predict and time them. But Catwoman and Batman would be a guess, at best, because of their speed and float. I know Flash is very fast, but his movement is pretty linear. Bat trait and catdash aren't their only tools vs range either. Batman can use his float to move in through an area that Zatana can't cover with her DB2 and can't time with her DF3(since he can change his trajectory). If you are full screen vs Catwoman they will gladly dodge projectiles for their meter and trait. Lobo can dive over fireballs and/or dash under them. And once he is in range he can low chain to beat out most of Zatana's trait moves or otherwise, plus in trait she can't block it either. Oh and Catwoman also has that low whip which you can't block in trait as well.

But of course, none of this addresses the obvious, most of these characters can out hit Zatana and stop her from getting space with just their jump ins or dashes. Air dash characters are especially fun. Landing a hit isn't impossible, just that when people start to realize how bad her startups are...it might be.
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i play against catwoman the most offline and i think its 6-4 in zatannas favor. You can zone her pretty easy for the most part and trait is good against her. Abuse the lightning rod. Just bait the MB cat dash, punish and send that pussycat back to the other side of the screen and start the zoning again
 
EMPRESS_SunFire

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
cirkusfreaksho said:
i play against catwoman the most offline and i think its 6-4 in zatannas favor. You can zone her pretty easy for the most part and trait is good against her. Abuse the lightning rod. Just bait the MB cat dash, punish and send that pussycat back to the other side of the screen and start the zoning again
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Zatanna can't zone Catwoman becuse of her dodge. She can also MB Cat dash on reaction as well as her trait (in start up) or any spark. Catwoman has the tools to be in our face the whole match, Catwoman bodies pretty hard up close.
Catwoman wins this. Don't forget that Catwoman can also dodge all her sparks
 
cirkusfreaksho

cirkusfreaksho

All in a day's work
AspyxiaDyslexia- said:
Zatanna can't zone Catwoman becuse of her dodge. She can also MB Cat dash on reaction as well as her trait (in start up) or any spark. Catwoman has the tools to be in our face the whole match, Catwoman bodies pretty hard up close.
Catwoman wins this. Don't forget that Catwoman can also dodge all her sparks
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i used to think cw was overwhelming but that has changed over time. When the CW player starts using evade i activate trait and usually they will dash in because they dont want to eat the chip from pillar and other projectiles. Bait the dash even if it means blocking and losing trait and punish. i honestly dont believe this will be an unfavorable matchup for zatanna. Keeping in mind she has been available for 3 weeks now so more to figure out.
 
sgZick

sgZick

Noob
Still learning, so currently only having limited match-up experience, the ones I have somethoughts on:

Aquaman: murders her, his trait negates most of Z's setups, FTD pkes her out of trait stance. She loses big time on footsies and has no safe approach from the air as well. You can teleport punish trident toss on reaction, but a decent aquaman would not use that. So not much idea on how to play this...

Green Lantern: my main, easier match for her than AM, but still favourable for Lantern, even at best. Teleport is great to keep away and going for a zoning battle, Lantern can shoot her out of trait, air rockets help, but can be punished on a read. Lantern can Air-Turbine over fireball setups. Lantern has to take risks to get in, but a lot of Zatannas stuff is punishable. I don't pariculary like to olay this match-up on either side...

Batam: Big trouble, the trait bats make Hatstance nearly impossible to use, this seems bad, don't realy know how to approach this match.
 
kevkopdx

kevkopdx

Noob
sgZick said:
Still learning, so currently only having limited match-up experience, the ones I have somethoughts on:

Aquaman: murders her, his trait negates most of Z's setups, FTD pkes her out of trait stance. She loses big time on footsies and has no safe approach from the air as well. You can teleport punish trident toss on reaction, but a decent aquaman would not use that. So not much idea on how to play this...

Green Lantern: my main, easier match for her than AM, but still favourable for Lantern, even at best. Teleport is great to keep away and going for a zoning battle, Lantern can shoot her out of trait, air rockets help, but can be punished on a read. Lantern can Air-Turbine over fireball setups. Lantern has to take risks to get in, but a lot of Zatannas stuff is punishable. I don't pariculary like to olay this match-up on either side...

Batam: Big trouble, the trait bats make Hatstance nearly impossible to use, this seems bad, don't realy know how to approach this match.
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for batman, my only advice, keep away, get him in trance and then trait the crap out of him, if you use trait wisely he will not be able to touch you... just make sure he doesnt have bats out.... definitely a hard match but do-able
 
sgZick

sgZick

Noob
kevkopdx said:
... just make sure he doesnt have bats out.... definitely a hard match but do-able
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Well, every half way decent bat player will have a bat ready at any time, especially in this match up to react to your trait. Correct catching them in trance is the only way to get your trait out, get the meter back you just spend, but still, you have to repeat that quite a lot, which is easier said then done...
 
kevkopdx

kevkopdx

Noob
sgZick said:
Well, every half way decent bat player will have a bat ready at any time, especially in this match up to react to your trait. Correct catching them in trance is the only way to get your trait out, get the meter back you just spend, but still, you have to repeat that quite a lot, which is easier said then done...
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yea i wouldnt repeat it alot, i usually use trait once a match, rarely more..... you just have to be dispensing all your tricks... ive played some decent batman players and even if i lose a lot, i come really close, which to me is a good sign, since zatanna is not fully explored..im seeing this matchup as maybe close to even in the future
 
S

Silverharp

Noob
Omg, Nightwing is kicking my ass all over the place. Can't outzone him, can't outpoke him.. Gaiz halp me. I guess Etativel will help against staff ground pound...
 
AK Harold

AK Harold

Noob
So let us break down the important stuff. How do you deal with F23 Superman, Black adam dives, and Batman trait pressure. I see them as the most common threats and would like to see if anyone has run extensive sets vs these characters to give some kind of insight on the mu.
 
TarkatanDentist

TarkatanDentist

Noob
Superman f23 antics - If you're desperate for a risk-free way to get out, go for MB Teleport Behind. If they do anything other than block, you can punish them for it (and if they do block, they lose any previous momentum they had). If you don't have meter (or don't want to use it), then you need to take a risk to get out - backdash avoids a lot of options, but leaves you vulnerable briefly. Jumping backwards is another risky option to escape, but you can make it harder for them to punish by cancelling into Levitate, and then possibly into a Teleport. Zatanna actually has more options to deal with f23 than many characters do.

Black Adam Divekicks - well, assuming he does it from a far enough distance, theoretically there's no reason you couldn't simply Teleport on reaction. If they're close enough that that isn't a viable option... I'm fairly sure 3 into MB Multi Kick will punish it most of the time. Even if it's spaced well and the 3 gets blocked... you still get about 10% block damage and it's safe, so at least it's not a total waste of meter. Or, hey, you could be ridiculous and go for MB b3 :p

Batman's Trait - Er... don't let him get into close range? Not the most helpful advice ever, I know, but his bats are pretty much impossible to deal with up close. MB Fire Kiss followed by Teleport limits his bat options a lot, but of course, you need 39 uninterrupted frames to get that fire ball out in the first place...
 
Jer

Jer

I'm a literal Sloth
BA cant divekick that much against Zatanna because her teleport fucks it up
 
AK Harold

AK Harold

Noob
Jer said:
BA cant divekick that much against Zatanna because her teleport fucks it up
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Ok I'll have to try that out. Was trying to levi over but the hurt box is too big. So just tele behind on BA when he jumps ? or tele front/back/neutral?
 
Jer

Jer

I'm a literal Sloth
AK Harold said:
Ok I'll have to try that out. Was trying to levi over but the hurt box is too big. So just tele behind on BA when he jumps ? or tele front/back/neutral?
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Behind, i think you might need to do it at a certain time as well. All i know is that if you do it at the right time, the divekick doesnt auto correct to you
 
AK Black Preon

AK Black Preon

Noob
Fought Zyphox online last night. That did not go well. A lot of the games he had like less than 15% life remaining so I wasn't getting my back blown out in the matches. But I could never get that last 15%. The end result was like 15 wins for Zyphox and 1 for me with Zatanna. Online dealing with Flash's tool kit makes me want to punt babies.

I've gotten into ranked matches with K7EETHA I think that's his name's Black Adam 3 times. And I don't see BA as being horrible. I went 1-2 but a lot of BA's shenanigans can't do much to our options. Especially with teleports. If he were to happen to do anything full screen such as MB Low Lightning, I've punished that like 5 times. So he wastes a bar and you get a full combo. Black Magic however is unreadable so you can't necessarily make a read on it. With dive kick teleport back or jump lev cancel if its going to hit low enough to jump it.

And Green Lantern.. I don't know what string it is, but if you teleport behind him and he "whiffs". For some reason his elbow comes back and hits you, even though he's flailing in the other direction. As for zoning you can kind of go even, but him hitting you with a projectile does wonders for him, while yours on hit just seem to give you time to plot. And MB F3 is working great on punishing those wake-up lantern's might though.

With F23 (note haven't played the best of supermen) pressure once I've gotten full screen you can zone him and pretty much out play his lasers on read. But the thing is some get crafty and see you teleport and start throwing out normals. So teleport in place which is d.u.d. also if he jumps and you hit with upward curve tiara, it combos into MB Puppet master. Then shenanigans begin anew.

(Take with grain of salt or a large tabled of NaCl due to this coming from an Online Warrior. A scrubby one at that.)
 
AK Black Preon

AK Black Preon

Noob
AK Harold said:
Bring it this Friday to AKA I want to watch your Zatanna live.
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I would but as it stands even after all these fighting games. I can't fucking deal with cross ups. Idk if I might have bad hand-eye coordination but when someone crosses me up or has me in a rapid vortex, it takes me like a second and a half of ... "uh... is it going to actually" and by that time batman has already j2'ed me. AK L0rdoftheFLY has already ambigoused me for 80%, Batgirl has already shit on my face, Flash's stuff I can't react to. Then you can see it in my videos for evidence. If I get my offense going I'm good. But the minute they get theirs going. I don't hit them for the longest god damned time.
 
Jer

Jer

I'm a literal Sloth
Zatanna DESTROYS GL, it's much better than 5-5. At full screen he can't do anything, and her mobility is so much better than his.
 
AK Black Preon

AK Black Preon

Noob
I agree with Jer in a non offline setting. Online he's one of my more infuriating MUs. But that's coming from my Online warrior perspective.
 
Jer

Jer

I'm a literal Sloth
AK Black Preon said:
I agree with Jer in a non offline setting. Online he's one of my more infuriating MUs. But that's coming from my Online warrior perspective.
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I've pretty much only played MU's offline anyways, so all my perspective is from offline :)
 
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