"Believe in magic yet?" - Zatanna Match-Up Discussion thread

[mikosu]

Uh..... shouldn't Zatanna be able to......

a) MB teleport away out of all Bane's oki?
b) DB3 through his armor since it's multi hitting?

It won't effect his lvl 3 but.... otherwise, I guess I have to lab it.

a) Yes. It's probably the best option she has against it.
b) db3 is not multi-hitting but different things happen depending on distance and when the two moves interact. She won't get knocked down unless he has LV3 or does an armored move that hits after db3's armor is gone. If his bf1 hits the armor it causes him to stagger back which can evade db3's hitbox causing only her to take damage so timing is crucial.

Her lack of footsie tools outside of 3 and f3 is her most glaring weakness. Bane can literally use that great forward dash and pester her with d1s out of her d1's range (since it beats another d1 on block) to force her to do something like backdash, jump, or MB f3. Luckily 3's range is slightly longer than his d1.

 

[Incognito]

Alright. Tuesday Afternoon/Evening work for you?

Yeah we can run a first to five or something

 

[AK Harold]

Why the hell am I seeing matchup numbers at all so soon after she is released? Un-fucking-believable

Sometimes all this site cares about are lists and matchup numbers.

Anyone listing MU numbers able to upload some footage so we can breakdown the advantage/disadvantages? I am very interested in this character and need live footage since lately I haven't been able to play a single person online/offline.

 

[PPJ]

my zatanna is in training. anyone who wants to test matchups on psn add me for sets

 

[Incognito]

my zatanna is in training. anyone who wants to test matchups on psn add me for sets

It seems like everyone on tym is on psn Oh well, guess I need to come to GGA sometime to verse you

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Too early to make definitive numbers.
I haven't even fought 1/4 of the cast with her.

But I've only fought these characters enough to get a general idea of what the MU may be.

Zatanna Vs

Aquaman - Bad MU - It's hard having to deal with his trait. She can't launch him at all. Ex Puppet Master and Ex Kicks can be traited to prevent launch, as her normals are too slow too. Best bet is just doing 221 teleport away or something like that. His tridents are annoying to deal with too.
Bane - Good MU- Teleport on his side when he is about to charge. Punish Full screen with MB Puppet combo, MB puppet Trait Set up, Trait setup, or the hard meterless version by teleporting away, then teleporting to him to punish his whiffed dash. She has the ability to safely wakeup to escape his pressure on wakeup. Ex Fire ball into rings, trait, etc is good to knock him out of armored venom (except level 3). When in trait, teleport to avoid his charges.
Flash- Bad to Even. Since flash has no teleports or projectiles, standing 3 (good footsie tool) is great to start a footsie game and as well as to punish moves like his ex dash.

 

[AK Harold]

We need more of this and your vids. Solid ideas on MU.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

We need more of this and your vids. Solid ideas on MU.

Thanks. Zyphox has helped me with Flash and AM and Maxintensity25 with Bane.

Looking to work on those 3 in a definitive manner first.

I still need to get the feel of her, combos, execution, etc.
She is tough to use and takes work to win with :3

 

[nightE89]

It seems like everyone on tym is on psn Oh well, guess I need to come to GGA sometime to verse you

I play on Xbox if you want to practice , im trying to main her as my second right now.

 

[AK Harold]

for blown up at aka but managed to win with her vs Grundy. also had a large amount of games vs bane. with Decent execution trait blows bane up pretty badly. spam and Tele behind rams.

 

[Vahfy]

I don't know if its coincidence, but I've found a lot of people going Grundy vs my Zatana. I guess because his swamphands is one of those projectiles she can't reflect or block in hat stance?

So far, GL and AM are my hardest matchups. Mainly because of their range and speed at close/mid range. It does seem that D1 on any character stuffs any of Zatana's vortex or mixups. Grundy and BA's D2s are also pretty strong vs anything Zatana does in close.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Zatanna vs. Flash, Lobo, catwoman, batman, lex luthor and nightwing Zatanna wins imo. 6-4 for most, 6.5-3.5 for Lobo flash and catwoman. They are free to trait. If anyone needs me to explain more, simply say so and ill go further.

 

[Jdrake12295]

What's your strategy against flash? I'm having trouble against him with her

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I will tell you the march ups that i have played most... (I have played more but not vs the highest level)

Harley Quinn... losing or even match up. Harley outzones us with that fast af projectile... Our meter building will consist only on rings since if we try to build meter with backward teleport her projectile will hit us as well, & our rings can also be punished on start up... Harley has also better rushdown, better mix ups. Trait is not useful at all in this MU.... With the fire ball set-up she can walk back & take our trait out with gunshot, or she can use projectile on trait start up.
A Harley that know the match up will punish every of our teleports (including MB ones) & outzone us...

 

[AK Harold]

Zatanna vs. Flash, Lobo, catwoman, batman, lex luthor and nightwing Zatanna wins imo. 6-4 for most, 6.5-3.5 for Lobo flash and catwoman. They are free to trait. If anyone needs me to explain more, simply say so and ill go further.

would love some match vids to dissect

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Flash & Catwoman feel like losing match ups...
Zatanna has horrible time vs good rushdown characters.

Catwoman & Flash have great 50/50 games.

Catwoman has an armored full screen cat dash & dodge that will make impossible for us to zone her or build meter. Teleport as wake up will be very helpful vs Catwoman... But she can still use her great low & overheads while sheis upclose without mentioning her great range normals. Our slow moves are our biggest weakness. She can also punish every teleport. While Catwoman is without meter (this will barely happen) we can build meter as much as we can. But she can also build.


Flash has great overhead & low moves. That fast af torpedo & dodge that will also make impossible to zone him or build meter easily.
He has good frame traps & great range onhis normals. His trait will be SOOOOO helpful on this match up. When he actives trait we must literally just block & try to guess right.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

would love some match vids to dissect

What!? NVM Flash & Catwoman are definitely bad match ups... I got to play vs Lex yet... & Batman seems even. But i don't wanna say numbers

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Too early to make definitive numbers.
I haven't even fought 1/4 of the cast with her.

But I've only fought these characters enough to get a general idea of what the MU may be.

Zatanna Vs

Aquaman - Bad MU - It's hard having to deal with his trait. She can't launch him at all. Ex Puppet Master and Ex Kicks can be traited to prevent launch, as her normals are too slow too. Best bet is just doing 221 teleport away or something like that. His tridents are annoying to deal with too.
Bane - Good MU- Teleport on his side when he is about to charge. Punish Full screen with MB Puppet combo, MB puppet Trait Set up, Trait setup, or the hard meterless version by teleporting away, then teleporting to him to punish his whiffed dash. She has the ability to safely wakeup to escape his pressure on wakeup. Ex Fire ball into rings, trait, etc is good to knock him out of armored venom (except level 3). When in trait, teleport to avoid his charges.
Flash- Bad to Even. Since flash has no teleports or projectiles, standing 3 (good footsie tool) is great to start a footsie game and as well as to punish moves like his ex dash.

I agree! Aquaman is a pretty, pretty annoying match up. I guess Black Adam is the worst match up i have played. But i still wanna play it abit more to give my thoughts.
Bane... I used to think it was a losing match up. But i gotta play it way more. Do you think is it an even?

 

[KamkaziChicila]

vs. Flash is 5-5 or maybe 4-6.
vs. Batman is solid 5-5.
vs. Hawkgirl is ehhh I would call it 5-5 but that's debatable.
vs. WW is 4-6 imo. Diana is really effective vs. Zee teleports.

 

[Vahfy]

Zatanna vs. Flash, Lobo, catwoman, batman, lex luthor and nightwing Zatanna wins imo. 6-4 for most, 6.5-3.5 for Lobo flash and catwoman. They are free to trait. If anyone needs me to explain more, simply say so and ill go further.

Except for Lex and Flash, I'd like those explained.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Except for Lex and Flash, I'd like those explained.

Sooo. Characters w no projectiles get raped. Catwoman has a dodge but that doesn't work to well w a fireball set up. These match ups I feel are so bad because they have no answer to zatanna trait. Db3 beats fullscreen catdash on reaction. A timed absorb will absorb batmans bats(all 3) plus batarang. Lex w trait doesn't take chip, but zatanna still gains meter, instant overheads (full screen levitate ~ teleport j2) works like a charm. Sorry, im not good with writeups, but I play high level people of all these characters, although some not tournament players, still high level nonetheless.


Also, if u see those trait set up vids, these characters have no answer. Sure lex can do missiles but without trait he will get knocked out by magic spam. Fullscreen regular fireball keeps them fullscreen stuck.


Some people would argue this wouldn't be a mu changer but why not? Even on WHIFF Ud build a bar in trait. Enough to Tele full screen and set up a fire ball.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Sooo. Characters w no projectiles get raped. Catwoman has a dodge but that doesn't work to well w a fireball set up. These match ups I feel are so bad because they have no answer to zatanna trait. Db3 beats fullscreen catdash on reaction. A timed absorb will absorb batmans bats(all 3) plus batarang. Lex w trait doesn't take chip, but zatanna still gains meter, instant overheads (full screen levitate ~ teleport j2) works like a charm. Sorry, im not good with writeups, but I play high level people of all these characters, although some not tournament players, still high level nonetheless.


Also, if u see those trait set up vids, these characters have no answer. Sure lex can do missiles but without trait he will get knocked out by magic spam. Fullscreen regular fireball keeps them fullscreen stuck.


Some people would argue this wouldn't be a mu changer but why not? Even on WHIFF Ud build a bar in trait. Enough to Tele full screen and set up a fire ball.

Armor? Dodge? Fast mobility? Great rushdown? 50/50 games? Frame traps?
Catwoman will beat fireball with Catdash's armor & hit you on trait start up.

This characters have enough tools to win this match up! (Flash & Catwoman) trait MAY be a problem for them both, but we can't build much meter vs them both... Both can punish our teleports. Both have great rushdown, our rushdown is not good, they have enough tools to be in our face or at least giving us a lot of problems the whole match.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Armor? Dodge? Fast mobility? Great rushdown? 50/50 games? Frame traps?
Catwoman will beat fireball with Catdash's armor & hit you on trait start up.

So after bf3MB tele fullscreen fireball, catwoman can catdash through the fireball plus magic spam? It's only theory fighting obviously, but w the setup I just mentioned, the catwoman I played was scared to catdash, too much on screen. Plus as I mentioned db3 will beat catdash, the armor is active the frame the move starts.

What can flash do to a fireball plus magic spam after bf3mb? Lobo? Lex has options but instant overheads kill him, as well as instant air divekick, he's easily zoned out. Obviously it takes landing a hit, but its not impossible. Db1 mb into bf3 frame traps fullscreen, it works wonders. I wish I was better w proving points but just ask me questions and ill answer the best of my ability. Please don't think I'm trying to argue. lol

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Armor? Dodge? Fast mobility? Great rushdown? 50/50 games? Frame traps?
Catwoman will beat fireball with Catdash's armor & hit you on trait start up.

This characters have enough tools to win this match up! (Flash & Catwoman) trait MAY be a problem for them both, but we can't build much meter vs them both... Both can punish our teleports. Both have great rushdown, our rushdown is not good, they have enough tools to be in our face or at least giving us a lot of problems the whole match.

Just watched ur vids and realized ur an emperor. Sunfire right? I'm an emperor as well on xbl. nice to be on the same team brother.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

So after bf3MB tele fullscreen fireball, catwoman can catdash through the fireball plus magic spam? It's only theory fighting obviously, but w the setup I just mentioned, the catwoman I played was scared to catdash, too much on screen. Plus as I mentioned db3 will beat catdash, the armor is active the frame the move starts.

What can flash do to a fireball plus magic spam after bf3mb? Lobo? Lex has options but instant overheads kill him, as well as instant air divekick, he's easily zoned out. Obviously it takes landing a hit, but its not impossible. Db1 mb into bf3 frame traps fullscreen, it works wonders. I wish I was better w proving points but just ask me questions and ill answer the best of my ability. Please don't think I'm trying to argue. lol

Well i Catwoman can read the lightning cage! No way you do it on reaction! The trait is pf course with us on this match ups... But what i mean is that you can't say it's a winning match up just for that! With their tools i bet you can barely use the trait set up... Plus our meter building on this match ups is not a good one... I doubt you can full combo into MB Puppet master into fireball set up everytimeyou get a combo.

Flash can dodge all the sparks while the fireball advances... You are forgeting that fireballwill disappear... If they keep dodging the sparks & walking back the fireball won't reach them.

It's ok, i'm not arguing either. I also know the character

& her full screen frame traps won't be a problem for people who knows the match up... Puppet master after MB rings can be jumped