Beliefs, Non-Beliefs, Worldviews and Philosophy v2.0

[Peckapowa]

I'm not even religious lol. I simply take the defense of religious people because this is an MK site so of course most of people here are atheists and it's really easy to gang up on them and try to silence them or whatever. I don't care what people believe in or if they don't believe in anything at all.

But yeah like I said earlier I completely understand why a more aggressive Atheism is more important to have in a country like the US, where the separation of church and state is questionable at best.

It's like 4-8% atheists in the US vs 40-50% or more in Canada. So there's a point where you don't need to

i am fine with religion 100%, a part of myself believes in and ponders god... but i think that if you override which. logical because of "belief" than you are inherently "bad" or weak as a person. Or perhaps a better i would define this as sickness, mentally sick. I mean everybody does it and nobody is perfect, but i think collective repression or deflection of that which is logical is "evil" along with many other things. I do not believe in that which entirely deviates from the intention of the natural programming we possess.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Imma be lazy and just post the usual EC videos for some fuudo for thought

This is interesting, but I don't like the way they equate faith in a God with faith in mathematics/science. Despite what these videos say, they aren't the same thing and shouldn't be treated as such.

For example, I have faith that the earth will not be destroyed tomorrow. This is based on the precedent of all past days in which the earth wasn't destroyed as well as the reasonable assumption that since nothing indicates otherwise, the pattern will continue. I can't prove that the earth won't be destroyed tomorrow until tomorrow has passed; it is by definition unprovable. It's possible that tomorrow the world may very well explode but this would be due to some explainable event that with enough information could have been predicted. To then equate this 'faith' based on reason and observation that the world won't blow up with faith in an un-observable, all powerful, diety whose accounts have demonstrable falsities, contradictions and logical absurdities, is disingenuous to say the least.

Yes, nothing is ever 100% provable, that's the problem of induction. However, logical postulates based on repeatable observations aren't just mere 'faith'. Yes, they are not 100% provable, and may well be wrong, but they are still based on sound reasoning and logic.

The difference lies in the claim. One can be proven wrong and the other is held as absolute. You can test a science book, but you can not test the bible. Faith based on past experience and religious faith are different in the proof that they have.

You can argue that even our existence is based on faith and that we could all be the product of a dream. However even that is different from religious faith because the moment evidence is brought up to challenge this idea, it can be changed. Religious faith on the other hand gives no measurable evidence and asks you to not even search for it.

I have no problem with admitting I'm wrong and going back and checking out how and why; science has no problem with this either! In fact it's one of the major tenants of the scientific method. Develop a hypothesis based on observation, test the hypothesis repeatedly until something contradicts it, modify hypothesis, repeat. Religion by its very nature is unchangeable.

 

[part1of2]

Lol that was a weird end when they assert that faith in silly things like science and numbers is no different than blind faith in deities and the supernatural. Like having "faith", if that's what they want to call it, that I will not get struck by lightning walking out my front door based on probability and faith that Thor, Zeus or even a god with a capital G will protect me are equally legitimate. They are not. One is based on reason and the other is based on fear and superstition. It is not a subtle difference, they are not practically the same, they are categorically different.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I work with people that have dementia, and alot of the things they say make alot more sense than religion.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Religion by its very nature is unchangeable.

This isn't true. If it was unchangeable there wouldn't be so much division and evolution within the same religions.

• Catholic 1,050,000,000
• Orthodox/Eastern Christian 240,000,000
• African indigenous sects (AICs) 110,000,000
• Pentecostal 105,000,000
• Reformed/Presbyterian/Congregational/United 75,000,000
• Anglican 73,000,000
• Baptist 70,000,000
• Methodist 70,000,000
• Lutheran 64,000,000
• Jehovah's Witnesses 14,800,000
• Adventist 12,000,000
• Latter Day Saints 12,500,000
• Apostolic/New Apostolic 10,000,000
• Stone-Campbell ("Restoration Movement") 5,400,000
• New Thought (Unity, Christian Science, etc.) 1,500,000
• Brethren (incl. Plymouth) 1,500,000
• Mennonite 1,250,000
• Friends (Quakers) 300,000

Primary classes of Christians:

• Protestant
• Lutheran (Minor Exception)
• Presbyterian
• Methodist
• Anabaptist
• Baptists
• Evangelical
• Pentecostals
• Brethren
• Amish
• Non-Trinitarians
• Universalists
• Unitarians
• Quakers
• Restorationists
• Church of Jesus christ of Latter Day Saints (The Mormons)
• Jehovahs Witnesses
• Charismatics
• Christadelphians
• Episcopalian
• Anglicans
• Catholic "Roman" Catholic (Western Rite Catholicism)
• Sedevacantists
• Eastern Orthodox (under the Patriarch of constantinople)
• Greek Orthodox
• Russian Orthodox
• Serbian Orthodox
• Coptic (Under pope
• Gnostic or Esoteric Christianity

All those different denominations exist because religion is flexible and changeable. Just like any other conviction, it can evolve (or devolve) with time. Not every believer still thinks the earth is flat or that dinosaurs never existed. That's just a stereotype. A lot of believers know there are contradictions in the bible and accept science's facts and historical discoveries and they adapt their belief around it. A lot of believers also do not see any problem in believing in both a creator and in evolution since they aren't contradictory anyway.

My mom goes to a church where they don't believe in religious traditions or religious symbols. They are against imposing baptism to young children because they think religion should be a choice when you enter adulthood. They respect and accept people from different religions. And they are just about the Jesus philosophy of loving, respecting and caring about everyone (including gays) and not doing anything that you wouldn't want people to do to you.

I also know lesbians and bis who are 100% christian and completely against conservative right wing hate groups and for things like stem-cell research, birth control etc.

One is based on reason and the other is based on fear and superstition..

Not always. This is again a stereotype.

I have zero fear/superstition, I don't believe in any sacred book, I don't believe in angels/demons/hell, and I'm not part of any religion. But I still believe in a designer and it's 100% based on reason, logic, statistics, advanced mathematics, a fascination for astronomy, game design theory, M-theory, philosophy, alternate dimensions and the study of chaos and emergent complex systems.

 

[part1of2]

This isn't true. If it was unchangeable there wouldn't be so much division and evolution within the same religions.





All those different denominations exist because religion is flexible and changeable. Just like any other conviction, it can evolve (or devolve) with time. Not every believer still thinks the earth is flat or that dinosaurs never existed. That's just a stereotype. A lot of believers know there are contradictions in the bible and accept science's facts and historical discoveries and they adapt their belief around it. A lot of believers also do not see any problem in believing in both a creator and in evolution since they aren't contradictory anyway.

My mom goes to a church where they don't believe in religious traditions or religious symbols. They are against imposing baptism to young children because they think religion should be a choice when you enter adulthood. They respect and accept people from different religions. And they are just about the Jesus philosophy of loving, respecting and caring about everyone (including gays) and not doing anything that you wouldn't want people to do to you.

I also know lesbians and bis who are 100% christian and completely against conservative right wing hate groups and for things like stem-cell research, birth control etc.



Not always. This is again a stereotype.

I have zero fear/superstition, I don't believe in any sacred book, I don't believe in angels/demons/hell, and I'm not part of any religion. But I still believe in a designer and it's 100% based on reason, logic, statistics, advanced mathematics, a fascination for astronomy, game design theory, M-theory, philosophy, alternate dimensions and the study of chaos and emergent complex systems.

It's not a stereotype, some people would just like to think it is because of again fear and superstition. It may not be literally everyone's reason for believing in the supernatural but that doesn't make it a stereotype. You could give a couple of examples from some those fields you listed, so maybe I could have a better idea of how your beliefs are more rational than the average person who believes in a creator. Honestly, I'd like to hear from someone who seems to have put some thought into it.

The problem is that most believers don't even go that far. Most people of faith don't question their beliefs as much as they should. And that has a real effect when you're talking about the majority of the population. Those people in mass have a lot of influence, on society, on the political system, everything. I wish I could dismiss it as a stereotype, really. But in realty people who believe ridiculous bible myths as literal and fact, those people make laws. Because they're representatives of their constituents. My point is most people believe in these fairy tales, in one form or another. And I live in a democracy, so their beliefs have real power. It's a lot more than a stereotype.

 

[Pan1cMode]

This isn't true. If it was unchangeable there wouldn't be so much division and evolution within the same religions.





All those different denominations exist because religion is flexible and changeable. Just like any other conviction, it can evolve (or devolve) with time. Not every believer still thinks the earth is flat or that dinosaurs never existed. That's just a stereotype. A lot of believers know there are contradictions in the bible and accept science's facts and historical discoveries and they adapt their belief around it. A lot of believers also do not see any problem in believing in both a creator and in evolution since they aren't contradictory anyway.

My mom goes to a church where they don't believe in religious traditions or religious symbols. They are against imposing baptism to young children because they think religion should be a choice when you enter adulthood. They respect and accept people from different religions. And they are just about the Jesus philosophy of loving, respecting and caring about everyone (including gays) and not doing anything that you wouldn't want people to do to you.

I also know lesbians and bis who are 100% christian and completely against conservative right wing hate groups and for things like stem-cell research, birth control etc.



Not always. This is again a stereotype.

I have zero fear/superstition, I don't believe in any sacred book, I don't believe in angels/demons/hell, and I'm not part of any religion. But I still believe in a designer and it's 100% based on reason, logic, statistics, advanced mathematics, a fascination for astronomy, game design theory, M-theory, philosophy, alternate dimensions and the study of chaos and emergent complex systems.

If anything the existence of different splintering factions is evidence for the rigidity and unchangeability of religion. Religion is so fixed and set you have to break away and set up an entirely new sect/religion in order to change anything about the religion.

However I meant more in terms of the religious text. If you accept the bible as the central source of information about your world view (as many many Christians do) then as the bible is fixed, there isn't much room for change in your religion is there? Sure you can hold ideals contrary to your religious text but then that brings into question the legitimacy of the bible as a source of information/morals/etc. (as you knowingly disregard parts of it to suit your current modern world view).


I'm not bashing your opinion here, just querying your belief in a designer. Why would a God be necessary for the design of the universe? To me it's just an unnecessary step;

- matter has always existed, through a series of natural processes and the many billions and billions of stars and trillions of worlds created in the aftermath of the 'Big Bang' due to the actions of gravity and other forces one world orbiting one star showed life that created life which eventually evolved to humans.

- God created matter, through a series of natural processes guided by God and the many billions and billions of stars and trillions of worlds created in the aftermath of the 'Big Bang' due to the actions of gravity and other forces one world orbiting one star showed life that created life which eventually evolved to humans.

Can you see how God only complicates and obfuscates the beauty already inherent in our world? Why is a for necessary for that?

 

[DevilMaySpy]

I was scrolling through news stories and was pretty shocked to find this: http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/faux_lesbian_t_a_t_u_singer_is_actually_anti_gay

"Yes, I would condemn him, because I believe that a real man must be a real man. God created man for procreation, it is the nature. The man for me is the support, the strength male voice, male look. Definitely no, I won't support a gay son."

The stunned interviewer reacted, saying:

"Stop, stop. You just told me that you do not mind if your daughter was a lesbian. You were talking about freedom."

But Yulia doubled down:

"This only applies to a daughter, not a son. I think for men, it's a bad freedom. A man has no right to be a [ban incoming]. Two girls together, not the same thing as the two men together. It seems to me that lesbians look aesthetically much nicer than two men holding their hands or kissing."​

 

[Pan1cMode]

I was scrolling through news stories and was pretty shocked to find this: http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/faux_lesbian_t_a_t_u_singer_is_actually_anti_gay

Lol. It's like those guys who comment, "hot" on girls kissing but then go on to say being gay is 'unnatural' and 'disgusting'.

 

[VenomX-90]

Imma be lazy and just post the usual EC videos for some fuudo for thought

Im Catholic and I believe in God but I played Dante's Inferno and that game was fun as hell.

 

[SoapBar]

I was scrolling through news stories and was pretty shocked to find this: http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/faux_lesbian_t_a_t_u_singer_is_actually_anti_gay

Goddamn. Her reasoning literally boils down to "Gay men are disgusting, but lesbians are OK. Why? Because lesbians are hotter."

Bitch don't give half a fuck.

 

[Law Hero]

@Vulcan Hades
I'm not going to remain silent and not tell you you're full of shit when you condemn me to torture for eternity when my only crime is disbelief.

I've never quite understood this line of thinking and have always found it rather humorous. Perhaps you could elaborate.

I mean, if someone told me I was going to a Hell I didn't believe in, it wouldn't bother me. There's a guy at my college campus who occasionally stands on a rock and talks about how people are going to Hell for drinking and smoking. No one gets offended or cares, because most people passing by don't believe in it. Likewise, I wouldn't get upset if someone told me I was going to be reincarnated as a cockroach for my bad behavior simply because I don't believe in reincarnation. I've just never understood why some people get SUPER offended and butthurt when they're told they're going to a Hell they don't believe in for their actions. I've seen people flip out over it, even though they don't believe.

 

[Pan1cMode]

I've never quite understood this line of thinking and have always found it rather humorous. Perhaps you could elaborate.

I mean, if someone told me I was going to a Hell I didn't believe in, it wouldn't bother me. There's a guy at my college campus who occasionally stands on a rock and talks about how people are going to Hell for drinking and smoking. No one gets offended or cares, because most people passing by don't believe in it. Likewise, I wouldn't get upset if someone told me I was going to be reincarnated as a cockroach for my bad behavior simply because I don't believe in reincarnation. I've just never understood why some people get SUPER offended and butthurt when they're told they're going to a Hell they don't believe in for their actions. I've seen people flip out over it, even though they don't believe.

It's essentially saying you deserve an eternity of punishment and tourture. If someone told you that you deserve to be killed in a brutal manner and tortured for the rest of your life because you disagree with them, you might get a little offended no? Even though you know there's no way they could kill you and brutally torture you, it's still insulting.

I mean, personally it doesn't affect me that much but the intent and viciousness behind the statement might be offensive if I didn't have a thicker skin.

 

[Law Hero]

It's essentially saying you deserve an eternity of punishment and tourture. If someone told you that you deserve to be killed in a brutal manner and tortured for the rest of your life because you disagree with them, you might get a little offended no? Even though you know there's no way they could kill you and brutally torture you, it's still insulting.

I mean, personally it doesn't affect me that much but the intent and viciousness behind the statement might be offensive if I didn't have a thicker skin.

Perhaps I just have thicker skin as well.

Like I said, there's a guy telling me I'm going to Hell for enjoying a drink here and there, but it doesn't bother me in the slightest. His intent might be to enlighten me or insult me, but since I don't believe a few drinks are going to curse for eternity, then it's whatever. I've just seen (in person) people flip out and shout, "How dare they judge me. Who are they to tell me I'm going to Hell?" I just don't quite understand the feeling (though I do get that when confronted with outright maliciousness--as opposed to helpful intent--it can be hurtful) of being upset over someone else's beliefs conflicting with my actions. Unless there is some thought in the back of their mind that Hell/Heaven may be real, and there's a fear there, then it just seems silly to me to let it fluster you.

 

[Juggs]

I've never quite understood this line of thinking and have always found it rather humorous. Perhaps you could elaborate.

I mean, if someone told me I was going to a Hell I didn't believe in, it wouldn't bother me. There's a guy at my college campus who occasionally stands on a rock and talks about how people are going to Hell for drinking and smoking. No one gets offended or cares, because most people passing by don't believe in it. Likewise, I wouldn't get upset if someone told me I was going to be reincarnated as a cockroach for my bad behavior simply because I don't believe in reincarnation. I've just never understood why some people get SUPER offended and butthurt when they're told they're going to a Hell they don't believe in for their actions. I've seen people flip out over it, even though they don't believe.

Within the context of my entire post, I meant that in addition to the Christianity doctrine that is incorporated in our justice and legal system, I am also told that if I don't think exactly like they do, I'm going to be tortured for eternity. The fear mongering by itself can be easily brushed off, as you said. It's the principle of being a bigot by virtue of their religion, hiding behind it and using it as a weapon that gets me "butthurt". Not all Christians are the same, and not all of them persecute you for not sharing their belief.

 

[Youphemism]

Im Catholic and I believe in God but I played Dante's Inferno and that game was fun as hell.

Im Catholic and I believe in God but I played Dante's Inferno and that game was fun as hell.
Im Catholic and I believe in God but...that game was fun as hell.
Im Catholic... fun as hell.

Isn't hell supposed to be a bad thing?

 

[fr stack]

Bingo.

I fully believe Jesus existed, and wanted nothing more than for his fellow man to get along side by side. Walking on water? Feeding 5000 people with a loaf of bread. No. Did not happen.

self raising flour brah

 

[Flagg]

self raising flour brah

Lol self raising Jesus

 

[fr stack]

let's assume that the bible is a lie and there is no such thing as god.
how can anyone explain to me why and how the fuck do some people start speaking in a tongue that they don't know when they worship "god".
I seem that shit first hand and is so fucking scary( especially when you are 10).
what about the collapsing and shit

dude study how the brain works , language is just a series of grunts basically

is it just me or non-beliver happen to have be in fields of science/technology.
the closer you are to science the less you believe in god.
I consider myself agnostic cuz nobody can prove me shit.
I wonder if a billion years from now people will study all the history of religions/gods and laugh at us.

just l0l

i study religion and laugh now

 

[fr stack]

This is probably going to sound weird but here's what I believe:

I believe that every day is a dream, and when you wake up "the next morning" you're really just waking up from the dream that is yesterday into a 'layer' less of your dreams. I think you're already dead or at the very end and you're just living through every day, as the memories they are, in your dream(s). When you try to remember yesterday or any day in the past you recall it the same way as you recall something you experienced in your dreams, right? And you most likely don't remember absolutely everything that happened the previous day the same way you don't remember everything that happened in your dream.

Deja vu is the icing on the cake with my theory. At some point you feel like you've already experienced something and you understand it as deja vu because that's what you've been told it is and it's just "your brain messing up" or something like that. Thing is, at least in terms of this theory of mine, you have experienced it. It's one of the days you've experienced through your life- remember your body is already at the end and so has already experienced every day you've lived. You having "deja vu" in, say, 'day 1246' is your brain recalling another memory from a different day in your life.

A day is just a very lucid dream in my opinion, everything you see, do, hear, touch, etc is a projection of your mind. Other people are projections of your mind. The way they speak, move and do what they do is something your mind has created and you experience. There's probably flaws in my theory but whatever, that's what I believe haha.

do u read the wheel of time by any chance ?

 

[Youphemism]

do u read the wheel of time by any chance ?

Nope never heard of it, why do you ask?

 

[VenomX-90]

Im Catholic and I believe in God but I played Dante's Inferno and that game was fun as hell.
Im Catholic and I believe in God but...that game was fun as hell.
Im Catholic... fun as hell.

Isn't hell supposed to be a bad thing?

It is but that wont prevent me from playing games that have violence which in fact is on eof the 7 deadly sins, If you want me to preach to you fine. We all have sinned I've sinned myself, if every Cathloic wants to be saved they have to go to confession. I mean c'mon how many here are religious and still play Mortal Kombat and other games that contain violence? I mean shit let me see here oh yeah...ITS JUST A FUCKING GAME! (not yelling proving a point) its not real, dont take the shit seriously. smh

 

[fr stack]

Nope never heard of it, why do you ask?

its very similar to one of the cultures belief systems in the book , all dreams must die 8)

 

[part1of2]

Perhaps I just have thicker skin as well.

Like I said, there's a guy telling me I'm going to Hell for enjoying a drink here and there, but it doesn't bother me in the slightest. His intent might be to enlighten me or insult me, but since I don't believe a few drinks are going to curse for eternity, then it's whatever. I've just seen (in person) people flip out and shout, "How dare they judge me. Who are they to tell me I'm going to Hell?" I just don't quite understand the feeling (though I do get that when confronted with outright maliciousness--as opposed to helpful intent--it can be hurtful) of being upset over someone else's beliefs conflicting with my actions. Unless there is some thought in the back of their mind that Hell/Heaven may be real, and there's a fear there, then it just seems silly to me to let it fluster you.

Yea... That's not how being insulted works? I mean even beyond religion and these issues. It's not necessary to believe the offensive statement for it to be offensive. If I call you or anyone else an a-hole they don't need to actually believe me to be offended by what I said. If say your wife is a slut or something racist or sexist or any number of terrible things, most people would be insulted specifically because they don't believe those things to be true. It doesn't affect the legitimacy of their offense. To then say "it shouldn't bother you if you don't believe it" either sounds like I'm mocking them or that I'm so socially deaf that I don't understand what I'm saying.

 

[MKF30]

I believe in God and am a Christian Catholic. That is all.