Match-up Discussion Baraka Match Up Discussion

[OnizukaPM]

I think Sub-Zero is his bad matchup as well

 

[VOR]

Raiden- I could have gone more in depth with the Raiden matchup, there really is a lot to say about Raiden in general. I could add that it is generally a good idea to take your offense in smaller chunks. There's just so much whiff potential, since Baraka relies on srtings for his big offense, if you catch something of course go for it, but don't expect the big offense to be right in front of your face. If the Raiden you are playing against is pretty teleport happy, test their reactions by possibly jumping back and seeing if you jump into their teleport. You may eat a superman, but it's ok, just see how on top of thier game they are. Raiden's aa options require somewhat strict reactions. The jump back into a teleport is where I've consistently gotten any kind of regular larger offensive

Kitana- I think Kitana is a very bad matchup for Baraka. D1 is just an answer for so many things. Nothing really comes to mind except for footsies and keeping on the offensive, yet not jumping much at all. I'm not entirely sure of how d4 can be an answer to her d1 but I think it would have some use. Theoretically this matchup seems really bad to me.

Kung Lao- Question- Does Baraka's 22 1+2 frame trap just not work against Kung Lao? Baraka is +8 after 22 1+2, but KL's spin is 6 frames, so does the frame trap not work against this character?

 

[OnizukaPM]

Baraka is +8
Spin --> 6frames
Baraka F44 --> 12frames

12-8 = 4
there is 4frame window to escape, so techicaly u should beat spin

 

[Zoidberg747]

So according to Tom Brady's new matchup chart here are Raka's new numbers:

Raiden: 4-6
Kabal: 3-7
Smoke: 4-6(Sadly with resets I agree with this one)
Kenshi: 3-7(I disagree, I think it is 4-6)
Kung Lao: 4-6
Jax: 4-6
Freddy Krueger: 3.5-6.5
Kitana: 4-6
Mileena: 5-5(KNEW we were right on this one)
Sonya: 4-6
Cyrax: 4-6
Reptile: 4-6(I am thinking this is 5-5, I thought THTB thought this at one time as well)
Scorpion: 4-6(I think this is 5-5, but have limited experience so ill go along with this one)
Ermac: 4-6(Pretty sure this is AT LEAST 5-5, unless some major tech with Ermac has been found)
Sektor: 4-6
Cyber Sub: 4-6
Rain: 4-6
Noob Saibot: 4-6
Johnny Cage: 4-6
Nightwolf: 4-6
Liu Kang: 5-5
Shang Tsung: 4-6
Sindel: 4-6(I think 5-5 personally)
Kano: 4.5-5.5
Quan Chi: 4-6
Jade: 6-4
Stryker: 4.5-5.5
Sub Zero: 4-6(This has been my thinking for a while as well)
Sheeva: 4.5-5.5

This puts him at the worst character in the game. Agree/Disagree?

 

[THTB]

It's right for the most part...your changes are the only changes I'd actually make aside from the Reptile one. That one, Brady is right about.

I don't consider him the worst, but he is very much a bottom 5 character.

 

[1man3letters]

im sorry i know mr.brady knows ALOT bout this game but he doesnt or never did main baraka,
using only theory is not the way to do a chart for a char


Liu Kang: 5-5 (i am sick of people sayin this 5-5,no way in hell it is,iafb,lowfireball,super armor,stupid meter building,normals more than half our speed and safe,kang near always has breaker in this match, yea lows great against his wakeup but thats only so much,imo kang def has an adv in this match)


edit, removed my matchup chart except for one, why? no reason

 

[Zoidberg747]

It's right for the most part...your changes are the only changes I'd actually make aside from the Reptile one. That one, Brady is right about.

I don't consider him the worst, but he is very much a bottom 5 character.

I know that, but I do believe he is a little bit better than Sheeva.

 

[1man3letters]

I know that, but I do believe he is a little bit better than Sheeva.

i think when raka players speak of his strengths some people think were saying he a-tier which we def not,
he is one of the lowest "tier" chars in the game, but in a game that is very balanced (besides the bullshit) this does not mean baraka is a bad char, sure he has some weaknesses and few horrible matchups but i say with 100% certainty he is NOT the dead last bottom char in this game

 

[Zoidberg747]

Can someone explain why the Cyber Sub matchup and Noob Saibot matchup are a disadvtange for Baraka?

 

[1man3letters]

Can someone explain why the Cyber Sub matchup and Noob Saibot matchup are a disadvtange for Baraka?

because a baraka player didnt make the numbers (jk)

seriously though noob vs raka is solid 5-5, MAYBE .5 either way if i was pushed, noob lacks of armor big problem in the MU

i could MAYBE slight adv either way in vs cyber match because he can mess with rakas wakeup with slides and bomb setups,good damage,hes parry good against rakas slow normals but raka has much better pokes and with cyber havin no armor but for his xray,hes frame frame city,also charge and spin with are very good in this match, chop 2 at times
to be honest,i mostly only get cyber matchups online,played usedforglue cyber offline but that was only a few casuals

 

[MashPotatoTower]

Am i crazy to think baraka and raiden are a close fight? no troll, I think Baraka has the right tools

 

[1man3letters]

depends on who u ask, imo yes your crazy,its adv radien big time
radien blows up charge like no one else in the game(without meter),
u cant shouldnt be able to spin his tele as if a smart radien he'll neutral duck it and full combo you,same if you try charge and its blocked,chop doesnt have autocorrect anymore so thats useless as radien can superman the crap outta that move and if your risky enough to try charge radien if he teles and blocks because of the reversed inputs you get a blocked spark,again full combo.besides pokes and reading it into a backcrossover to were radien appears raka has to take big risks to deal with radiens tele,and the obvious point of spark being no use in this match because of the recovery,radien takes no were near as many risk in this match up as raka has to

radien is the only and i stress only person in game who the 22 1+2, f4 frame trap doesnt work on without the use of meter, you have to use D1~slices instead and if he blocks the D1 he can tele before slices comes because of the cancel information on a blocked D1 which will give him a free superman as the slices whiff

radien can also blow up rakas wakeup with the use of 1 meter for a full combo(ex shocker)
radien and better midscreen damage and even better meterless corner damage(if only by a % or two)

i could go into more detail but to be honest breaking down matches to every possible detail for the likes radien or kabal to prove to people they arnt 5-5 is a pointless venture when some dont want to listen, baraka has some messed up matches,none unwinable but people have to stop overrating there chars for whatever reason they feel the need2

baraka is within bottom 5 in the game,with the numbers that have been thrown around lately and in the past it would make him top5 which is def not the case, to be honest Zoidberg747 matchup chart is one of the only baraka charts/numbers that i havnt just looked at and tossed away as misguided garbage.....yea i said it! someone had 2!

 

[Zoidberg747]

Yeah Raiden is 4-6 for sure. I feel the same way as man, I have had to explain the Kabal matchup at least 5 times to people who think it is even lol.

 

[Miss Kanzuki]

I think Sub-Zero is his bad matchup as well

I thought this too but got laughed at for suggesting so the other day in a KotH. I think I honestly dread match ups with SZ more than Kabal lol...that damn ice clone gets me I'm not talking about the noobs that abuse the ice clones because they are predictable and I can avoid them... it's the skilled/tricky SZ's that make me agree that he's a bad MU for Raka.

 

[1man3letters]

I thought this too but got laughed at for suggesting so the other day in a KotH. I think I honestly dread match ups with SZ more than Kabal lol...that damn ice clone gets me I'm not talking about the noobs that abuse the ice clones because they are predictable and I can avoid them... it's the skilled/tricky SZ's that make me agree that he's a bad MU for Raka.

ive got in a heated discussion with 2 sub zero players about this matchup over last while,not going to name names but lets just says,to my knowledge one is known and i think attends tournies,one is known for something else
one thought two 22 1+2 back to back was a infin while there was a 15 gap,like wtf?
both ended up resorting to insulting me because while i could prove them wrong about things they said with fact they could neither prove me wrong or accept the true things me(and another user) were saying to them

so imo alot of people talking about this matchup trying to argue either char have an adv does not know the matchup as well as they could for either of there chars,while everyone is entitled to there opinion,everyone is not entitled to ignorance.
i see that match as a solid 5-5,if sub plays a certain way he can blow raka up but raka also if played right in this matchup can.

i speak only in a offline sense because if we were to look at things in online situations chars like the radien/reptile matchups are totally different because of the flaws online mk gives to them(ie less punishable online)

to be honest i dont wish to discuss this matchup on the public forms as i dont really want certain people trying to troll me or having to explain myself to people who dont want to listen,
if youd like i would have no problem discussing rakas options in this match and how to deal with a eliminate some of the options sub has for a greater chance of getting the win through pm but i wont be doing it here, there is no paint my numbers way to make sure raka wins this as a 5-5 states it can go either way but not knowing your enemy is the quickest way to a loss

 

[Zoidberg747]

I think the Sub matchup is 4-6 simply because Baraka has no answer for a ice clone other than duck blocking. His spark recovery makes it to where Sub can ice ball on reaction causing you to get frozen. Even if you have EX blade charge good Sub Zero's will expect that and block, and even if it hits he can just ice clone again.

Other than that I think they are even, but because of the ice clone I think it is around 4-6. This is a great example of a matchup that would be much more manageable with a better spark recovery.

 

[1man3letters]

I think the Sub matchup is 4-6 simply because Baraka has no answer for a ice clone other than duck blocking. His spark recovery makes it to where Sub can ice ball on reaction causing you to get frozen. Even if you have EX blade charge good Sub Zero's will expect that and block, and even if it hits he can just ice clone again.

Other than that I think they are even, but because of the ice clone I think it is around 4-6. This is a great example of a matchup that would be much more manageable with a better spark recovery.

isnt that is answer? to do nothing? limit his options
it takes 27 clones to build 1 bar of meter,the clone stays on screen just under 4sec,to build 1 bar of meter from just clones it would take 102 seconds,if a ice ball was thrown after each clone it would take about 52 seconds (assuming u neutral duck the ice balls) so sub doesnt even have the best meter bulding when hes playing hide behind the clone.

at the distance you start at when a round starts,if the the input for clone and the input for charge are put in at the same time,sub will get hit with the charge because his clone would not of come out becuase raka was to close to him, now im not saying this can be done on reaction as we tarkatans not jedis but there are times even when raka doesnt have meter for the ex version that charge must be respected

ok lets assume raka gets a life lead,even say 8% from a charge,
all he has to do is crouch and block, no damage is going to come from clones/ice balls unless they hit you so sub has to come to baraka, so barakas meter is then no longer needed to get in on sub zero but to knock him away again when the gaps are present.
besides trying to pressure with normals, slide is the only option special wise and if your just crouch blocking that will lead to full combo,his overhead (f4 i think it comand) is 24 frames and isnt difficult to see and stand block on reaction.

things like these is what i meant by sayin yes sub can take away options from baraka but baraka can also take away alot of subs when even a small life lead is present,patience is key and also knowing when to lame the shit of the match and do nothing but wait and force mistakes

but do agree if spark had better recovery things would be made a tad easier when sub has the life lead

 

[Gengar]

I find the Baraka V Sub match up to be a joke, and for the most part subzero himself has become a joke in this game. any character with an armor move can beat subzero, and especially baraka. clone is not scary for baraka, at all. you can ex blade charge through them, and the on reaction ones that you guys are talking about should never happen, because you should rarely be pressuring sub. why pressure him when you can get the life lead by armoring through a special, and then just wait it out. sub cant chip you, and has poor options for getting in. baraka is the ultimate turtle. and the same goes for plenty of other characters that can armor through his ice clone, wait for him to do it, then punish it, all it takes is a minor life lead. subzeros zoning becomes null, and forces sub to come to you, which for baraka is what you want, along with other characters like sonya and jax that obliterate sub.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

So apparently, I can't beat this dude with any character. Sub-Zero, Kenshi, Kung Lao ... have all fallen to this guy.

And it's just THREE moves... spark, charge, and spin.

;asdlifha;oih <------ that's my brain when I fight this character.

what do you do!?!

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

rtrjyjwtjktykaqr/;i/l

 

[NogunYesknife]

everything baraka does is safe, You have to wiff punish. try keeping him away with sub or kenshi

 

[NKZero]

Kenshi is your best bet obviously but Sub should be fine as well. As CJF pointed out get into that range which is just outside Baraka's max range blade charge and punish. Bait out moves like the spin and chop chop and punish accordingly. Chuck some ice balls to try and bait an EX blade charge and that's it really. You can turtle Baraka if you have the life lead.

 

[Shaolin Shokan]

So apparently, I can't beat this dude with any character. Sub-Zero, Kenshi, Kung Lao ... have all fallen to this guy.

And it's just THREE moves... spark, charge, and spin.

;asdlifha;oih <------ that's my brain when I fight this character.

what do you do!?!

shouldn't you post this in the sub-zero forum? also, don't you guys have top sz players that you can ask for advice?

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

rtrjyjwtjktykaqr/;i/l

a fellow mushy brain eh? welcome to the club.

 

[Espio]

shouldn't you post this in the sub-zero forum? also, don't you guys have top sz players that you can ask for advice?

Who better to ask then the Baraka community? Theoretically, they would know more about Baraka than Sub-Zero players.